|
Post by multidigits on Aug 15, 2005 9:51:49 GMT -5
OBR doesn't automaticly mean you'll get more oppurtunity. That came from the increase in the number of deer, due to several factors. You still have to find ways to kill an X number of does. If you don't, then the bucks will lack one of the requirements to getting bigger--nutrition. Age will increase with the OBR, and Indiana already has the genetics. It's a slam dunk to suceed if the does are kept in check.
NOW, this is where a group similar to the IDHA should come into play. Instead of fighting a bunch of rabbit hunters or over a choice of archery equipment, they should mandate the changes needed to insure the deer herd is kept in check. The number one problem is the license structure. STill we see the leader of that group asking for more licenses to be added instead of an overhaul of the system. Seems out of touch to me with reality?
|
|
|
Post by Indyhunter on Aug 15, 2005 16:20:57 GMT -5
When Kentucky went from 2 down to 1, how many less bucks were taken (per year) in the years following? There number of bucks killed here didn't go down much. All that really happened is saving some archery killed bucks that are later taken during the gun season. If I remember right the amount of 2nd bucks killed totalled less than 5% of the total deer killed. I do believe the idea itself made some people starting thinking a little harder about the buck they were shooting before pulling the trigger. But I do not believe it is growing bigger bucks here. The trend for # of "record" deer was already on an upswing prior to removing the 2nd buck if I remember correctly. When comparing the number of "book" deer to the herd size, Indiana comes in at #5 or 6 out of all 50 states. Not too shabby. I think that is what miffed a lot of people. The numbers here were already good and still climbing, then an opportunity was taken away.
|
|
|
Post by multidigits on Aug 15, 2005 16:30:44 GMT -5
You have to count P & Y deer to make the top list. Ky. has so many of those, they hardly get counted. Ind. numbers will continue to improve and the number of B & C deer will climb as well. It'll take awhile though.
|
|
|
Post by jdmiller on Aug 15, 2005 16:50:09 GMT -5
When Kentucky went from 2 down to 1, how many less bucks were taken (per year) in the years following? There number of bucks killed here didn't go down much. indyhunter : I dont know the figures on this(multi may know) but I think we were probably in the same boat as Indiana . The numbers probably didnt go down much because the one buck limit started about the time the populations were exploding . Prior to 1990 and I'm speaking for my part of the state we just didnt have a huge number of deer and then seemingly all at once we were seeing deer everywhere down here . The success rates had to climb somewhat and improve harvest figures . So inturn I dont think it went down .....if anything it probably increased . I'm speculating on this so dont hold me to it .
|
|
|
Post by multidigits on Aug 15, 2005 17:28:33 GMT -5
The main difference is that the age of the deer in the harvest improves. People learn to not shoot the little ones and it eventually improves the age class of the deer. You still need to kill does though, and plenty of them.
|
|
|
Post by Woody Williams on Aug 15, 2005 20:06:29 GMT -5
JD,
The ONLY effect that the One Buck Rule could have on anyone would be to keep a bunch of early season successful buck hunters out of the deer woods during the firearm season. It would also keep the late archery season hunters out of the deer woods if they were successful in the firearm season.
Lots of people now sitting home twiddling their thumbs that could be still out hunting, buying tags, buying hunting supplies, groceries, gasoline, etc, etc, etc.
Now some will say, “ You can still hunt does”. That’s great if one needs the meat, but other than that does aren’t all that much of a challenge to hunt.
It is a well known fact that only about 6,000 Indiana deer hunters “double dipped” in any given year. Now the proponents said,” We can save 6,000 bucks a year”. Looks good on paper, but the very first year it became pretty apparent that the bucks being passed in early archery fell to the gun hunters.
2002 was the first year of the OBR and the early archery buck kill fell from 12,016 in 2001 to 7,397 in 2002. That is a drop of 4,619 bucks. A VERY dramatic drop.
However, the firearm kill went up from 36,082 in 2001 to 39,560 in 2002. That is an increase of 3,478.
That almost offset the drop in archery season. Basically it did EXACTLY what the state deer biologist said it would do – transfer the harvest from archery to firearm season.
The archery season has never caught up again to it’s pre-OBR buck kill stats and it probably never will.
Now some people will point out that we are killing more big bucks than ever before. That is true, but that is nothing new in the fact that the number of big bucks have been growing for years.
Deer hunters are getting older, more mature, more experienced and MORE SELECTIVE without being mandated as to what and what not to shoot.
As some else pointed out this rule has not evenly spread the sacrifice out amongst all hunters. It has been very detrimental to the two-season hunter while making no negative impact on the one season hunter. In fact it has given the one season hunter, usually a firearm hunter, more targets to shot at.
It has been a loss of hunter opportunity and revenues for the IDNR.
Want to see more opportunity and a HUGE gain in archery hunters in KY? Give them an archery buck and watch the numbers grow.
Indiana buck stats the year before and since the beginning of the OBR
Archery
2001 - 12,016
2002 - 7,397
2003 - 9,084
2004 - 7,985
NET LOSS OF - 4,031
Firearms
2001 – 36,082
2002 – 39,560
2003 – 40,203
2004 – 46,488
NET GAIN OF 10,406
Bowhunters pass them and the firearm hunters shoot them...
.
|
|
|
Post by cambygsp on Aug 15, 2005 20:37:06 GMT -5
I think the decrease in harvested button bucks is having more of an impact on the buck herd than anything else....it only makes since .
Thats about the only positive that came out of $24.00 each AND a PIECE deer tags!!!
|
|
|
Post by multidigits on Aug 15, 2005 20:46:04 GMT -5
Hard to make sense of numbers without looking at all the numbers. When you know what the herd population is, then you can analze the numbers. When the herd increases, the kill increases, up to the point that people get their freezers full. Then it's the price of the "free" drop offs that factor in.
|
|
|
Post by jbwhttail on Aug 15, 2005 21:58:47 GMT -5
Beating a DEAD HORSE Woody?
Crossbow and OBR, wasn't that you?
|
|
|
Post by jbwhttail on Aug 15, 2005 22:02:21 GMT -5
What about hte herd increase DNR claims Woody? That same increase you claim is the cause for an increase of 200% entries into the hoosier record book in three years and an increase of 300% in Boone & Crockett entries......
72% os statistics are made up/............ and you use them all....... to your benifit.
Two more years and you will quiet on the subject forever
|
|
|
Post by Woody Williams on Aug 15, 2005 22:08:25 GMT -5
Beating a DEAD HORSE Woody? Crossbow and OBR, wasn't that you? Joe, JD asked a question.... (My honest intent on posting this was to get a little insight on Indiana's OBR regulation).... and I gave him MY honest opinion as others have done. Me be quiet? LOL...don't hold your breath...
|
|
|
Post by jbwhttail on Aug 15, 2005 22:18:44 GMT -5
ahhhhhhhhhhhh you want me to be but not you.........
|
|
|
Post by jdmiller on Aug 15, 2005 23:39:40 GMT -5
It took awhile getting there but I at least have a idea what your talking about when someone discusses OBR . I hope changes occur that will correct the displeasure many have with the current system and increase the oppertunity ..however that may be .
Thanks to those that gave me honest opinions .
Woody :
It probably wouldnt matter what the subject was about but I dont see that this will continue without provoking less than civil remarks . I tried to ride that dead horse ... as expected I didnt get too far. If you can lock this thread .... do it . If I need to delete I will...just let me know.
|
|
|
Post by Woody Williams on Aug 15, 2005 23:42:36 GMT -5
It took awhile getting there but I at least have a idea what your talking about when someone discusses OBR . I hope changes occur that will correct the displeasure many have with the current system and increase the oppertunity ..however that may be . Thanks to those that gave me honest opinions . Woody : It probably wouldnt matter what the subject was about but I dont see that this will continue without provoking less than civil remarks . I tried to ride that dead horse ... as expected I didnt get too far. If you can lock this thread .... do it . If I need to delete I will...just let me know. I'll lock it per your request.. PM me if you want to discuss it further..
|
|