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Post by greghopper on Feb 4, 2022 9:20:00 GMT -5
That's easy, the same way they catch most people doing just about anything now days....Facebook and cell phone records. You don't have to actually catch them in the act during season with a camera strapped to a tree. You just need cell phone records of messages sent to them from a cell cam. The COs even caught the guys stealing catalytic converters from the boat ramps using Facebook. I see your point, but in all actuality I have to wonder (with COs being stretched pretty thin now), how much time would they want to invest in getting a subpoena for cell phone records and trying to build a case over a cell camera. Exactly…. And what if they are not hunting or a hunter they can’t use a cell camera? Don’t think so! Same with Drones….Honest policy really!
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Post by Ahawkeye on Feb 4, 2022 9:36:46 GMT -5
I don't run cameras of any kind, I wouldn't care if they made them illegal 100% of the time or just during the season or didn't do anything to them. I can see where the western outfitter could use them as an unfair advantage puting clients in spots on the fly on public ground but as far as the regular Joe goes if you feel better with "the deer on your wall" by using a cell cam then I don't care, as long as what you are doing doesn't impose on me. So if I was going to say something has to change about them I say they should not be allowed in public ground. If nothing is done about them I really don't care at this point.
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Post by budd on Feb 4, 2022 9:46:11 GMT -5
Remember when someone (would have to look back and see who) posted in this years Live From The Stand about using their cell phone's calling back and fourth and texting to get setup on a buck they could see from their stand. They made a plan to stalk the deer over the phone..that was illegal and unethical but a lot of people posting about unethical use of cell cameras congratulated the guy and his son.
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Post by saddlemaster on Feb 4, 2022 11:06:24 GMT -5
That's easy, the same way they catch most people doing just about anything now days....Facebook and cell phone records. You don't have to actually catch them in the act during season with a camera strapped to a tree. You just need cell phone records of messages sent to them from a cell cam. The COs even caught the guys stealing catalytic converters from the boat ramps using Facebook. I see your point, but in all actuality I have to wonder (with COs being stretched pretty thin now), how much time would they want to invest in getting a subpoena for cell phone records and trying to build a case over a cell camera. I believe they would. If it became law it would be right there with drones, baiting, and spotlighting. I recently saw officers putting in a heck of an effort to catch a guy hunting over bait on public. How much more effort is getting a subpoena versus sitting on a stakeout for hours trying to catch a spotlighter or someone hunting over bait?
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Post by saddlemaster on Feb 4, 2022 11:24:43 GMT -5
I doubt if anyone is going to change anyone else's mind on this. We all land wherever we land with how much technology we are comfortable with being allowed in hunting. I feel like we are only seeing the tip of iceberg for where cell cams are headed though and we need to have the discussion now rather than later. And I think it's import enough to include on the survey or something to gauge how Indiana feels about it, just like trophy management, new seasons, etc.
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Post by sculver7 on Feb 4, 2022 11:34:24 GMT -5
I'll add my thoughts: I have 3 cell cams and basically place them and turn them on starting August 1 and run them through the end of November. Not once have they helped me kill a deer and honestly, that is not even why I use them. My information comes from boots-on-the-ground scouting. I just like seeing what walks past on the cams. That being said, I can totally see how they would give an unfair advantage to the guy who is using them for the intent of "spying" on a deer to kill said deer. To an extent, everything that we use for hunting could be viewed as an "unfair advantage." This includes tree stands, guns, compound bows, heck, even our vehicles to get to where we are hunting. Where is the line drawn? I don't know the answer. Me personally, I would not be upset if they were banned during the season or even entirely. I would be a little upset as I have a decent amount of money put into them and they would now be worthless, but that's beside the point. I will add that if it is going to get to the point where they monitor picture transmissions to our phone, I would rather they just ban them altogether. The state doesn't have the time or resources to take on that kind of regulation and I am totally against that kind of oversight and regulation anyway. Currently, i have no problem with them and enjoy using them simply because I enjoy seeing what walks past, but I think it's hard to argue that they don't give an unfair advantage.
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Post by greghopper on Feb 4, 2022 11:55:49 GMT -5
Cell cams will Never be banned in Indiana any time soon ….neither will feeding,drones or spotlighting!
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Post by jjas on Feb 4, 2022 12:11:45 GMT -5
I see your point, but in all actuality I have to wonder (with COs being stretched pretty thin now), how much time would they want to invest in getting a subpoena for cell phone records and trying to build a case over a cell camera. I believe they would. If it became law it would be right there with drones, baiting, and spotlighting. I recently saw officers putting in a heck of an effort to catch a guy hunting over bait on public. How much more effort is getting a subpoena versus sitting on a stakeout for hours trying to catch a spotlighter or someone hunting over bait? This might be a good topic for you to post in the hunt-indiana.com/board/18/ask-conservation-officer sub board. It would be interesting to see what he says. Having said that, you probably should ask Woody before you post it to the board, just to be sure he's okay with it.
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Post by saddlemaster on Feb 4, 2022 12:22:01 GMT -5
Cell cams will Never be banned in Indiana any time soon ….neither will feeding,drones or spotlighting! Drones - Please see the law posted at the beginning of this thread. Feeding - It is illegal to hunt over bait Spotlighting - It is illegal to shoot a deer while spotlighting
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Post by greghopper on Feb 4, 2022 12:32:36 GMT -5
Cell cams will Never be banned in Indiana any time soon ….neither will feeding,drones or spotlighting! Drones - Please see the law posted at the beginning of this thread. Feeding - It is illegal to hunt over bait Spotlighting - It is illegal to shoot a deer while spotlighting I like I stated NEVER be banned…. All can still be used just not for use while hunting
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Post by budd on Feb 4, 2022 12:34:02 GMT -5
Question for those that feel the cell cams give unfair advantage, or unethical. If you were to book a out of state hunt(bear,deer,elk,whatever), and only have a few days to hunt. Guide shows you cell cam photos of hot stand with lots of action, or says you can hunt this other area but don’t have cell pictures but feels it’s a good spot but unknown what’s using the area. Which stand would you take?
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Post by saddlemaster on Feb 4, 2022 12:40:40 GMT -5
Drones - Please see the law posted at the beginning of this thread. Feeding - It is illegal to hunt over bait Spotlighting - It is illegal to shoot a deer while spotlighting I like I stated NEVER be banned…. All can still be used just not for use while hunting Agreed. And I would like see cell cams added to that list. Simply add it to the existing law that restricts the use of drones for hunting during hunting seasons.
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Post by Woody Williams on Feb 4, 2022 12:58:07 GMT -5
Interesting discussion.. Thanks for remaining civil.
My opinion..
I've always been against banning a hunting item or method that MIGHT be used illegally.
Carrying a personal protection handgun was once upon a time forbidden if one was bowhunting. The reason? Because someone MIGHT shoot a deer with it and claim it as a bow kill.
Same thing for spotlighting deer if you are in possession of your personal protection handgun. Thats illegal, but I dont think that any state law should negate my 2nd Amendment right.
So let's ban cell trail cameras since someone MIGHT use it unethically to kill a deer.
I run one cell trail camera and it is set to deliver pictures every 12 hours. I've only killed one buck that I had on camera but he wasn't on that camera for over a month when I killed him and it was a good 300 yards away from the camera. I dont "target" a specific buck. I target a good buck. First opportunity at a good buck I'm shooting... pictures or no pictures.
Basically I just enjoy seeing deer and turkey pictures and seeing what MIGHT be on the property. I got a picture of a really good ten pointer (for my area) in mid September and did not get another picture of him until mid January.
Why should I give up my pleasure for what someone else MIGHT do?
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Post by Woody Williams on Feb 4, 2022 13:03:30 GMT -5
Remember when someone (would have to look back and see who) posted in this years Live From The Stand about using their cell phone's calling back and fourth and texting to get setup on a buck they could see from their stand. They made a plan to stalk the deer over the phone..that was illegal and unethical but a lot of people posting about unethical use of cell cameras congratulated the guy and his son. I'd have to ask Morrison but I don't think using a cell phone or a radio (like you described) in Indiana is illegal. Ethics are personal and are up to the individual. I would never say to someone that what they are doing is unethical. I could (but probably wouldn't) say "what you did is unethical for me". I'm not much of a stone thrower. .
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Post by Woody Williams on Feb 4, 2022 13:12:31 GMT -5
Question for those that feel the cell cams give unfair advantage, or unethical. If you were to book a out of state hunt(bear,deer,elk,whatever), and only have a few days to hunt. Guide shows you cell cam photos of hot stand with lots of action, or says you can hunt this other area but don’t have cell pictures but feels it’s a good spot but unknown what’s using the area. Which stand would you take? I know where I'm going. The known hot spot. Now what I would not do is if the guide says "There is a good critter at that stand RIGHT NOW. Lets go slip up on him and shoot him". Nope.. not going there.
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Post by chewbacca on Feb 4, 2022 13:37:14 GMT -5
I don't have any cell cams but one of my buddies owns a 10 acre woods and he keeps a couple of cell cams running year round on it for a couple of reasons. One, is obviously to monitor how and what wildlife is utilizing the property. The other is to catch trespassers in real time. 2 years ago he had a hunter trespass on his property and caught him on the cell cam. He immediately phoned the local CO who happened to be only a few miles away and they were able to catch the trespasser. The other nice thing about most of the cell cams is that they have a gps tracking device. If someone steals the camera they are getting busted. This helps the CO's out tremendously. I'm in favor of their use and each hunter should be able to decide for themselves if it is ethical to them or not. I probably wouldn't use them but I don't mind people that do use them. I do feel it can be a useful tool in controlling trespassers.
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Post by titanium700 on Feb 4, 2022 13:38:13 GMT -5
Remember when someone (would have to look back and see who) posted in this years Live From The Stand about using their cell phone's calling back and fourth and texting to get setup on a buck they could see from their stand. They made a plan to stalk the deer over the phone..that was illegal and unethical but a lot of people posting about unethical use of cell cameras congratulated the guy and his son. I'd have to ask Morrison but I don't think using a cell phone or a radio (like you described) in Indiana is illegal. Ethics are personal and are up to the individual. I would never say to someone that what they are doing is unethical. I could (but probably wouldn't) say "what you did is unethical for me". I'm not much of a stone thrower. . That was me and my son. No using a cell phone to kill a deer is not illegal in Indiana. My son is 18, has a prosthetic leg and missing his right hand from birth. I try my hardest every year to help him in any way I can to kill whatever game we are going after many times passing up an opportunity on something so he can take it. I guess those people using radios could be grouped in the same thread the. We use our cell phones mostly for communication to keep each other encouraged and occupied. What I did I did on my own personal property and I know for a fact that it is not illegal. I guess some might think baiting is unethical too…..go to Kentucky and say that to someone there who baits, won’t fly well because it’s legal. Your definition of ethics are different than others. One thing for sure, remember. Ethics goes on a whole lot more than just hunting……it’s everyday life and how we handle and act towards others whether they see it or not. Woody this was not directed towards you. Just putting it out there.
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Cell Cams
Feb 4, 2022 13:41:43 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by budd on Feb 4, 2022 13:41:43 GMT -5
Question for those that feel the cell cams give unfair advantage, or unethical. If you were to book a out of state hunt(bear,deer,elk,whatever), and only have a few days to hunt. Guide shows you cell cam photos of hot stand with lots of action, or says you can hunt this other area but don’t have cell pictures but feels it’s a good spot but unknown what’s using the area. Which stand would you take? I know where I'm going. The known hot spot. Now what I would not do is if the guide says "There is a good critter at that stand RIGHT NOW. Lets go slip up on him and shoot him". Nope.. not going there. But what if…your setting in your north food plot and your cell sends a picture of Mac Daddy standing at the south end of your south food plot just a 100 yards behind you…and you know the field is approachable from where your at without spooking him? I would be looking for Mac Daddy!!! Lol I’m like you, I don’t like the ide of new laws/limitations being put on sportsmen.
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Cell Cams
Feb 4, 2022 13:46:21 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by budd on Feb 4, 2022 13:46:21 GMT -5
I'd have to ask Morrison but I don't think using a cell phone or a radio (like you described) in Indiana is illegal. Ethics are personal and are up to the individual. I would never say to someone that what they are doing is unethical. I could (but probably wouldn't) say "what you did is unethical for me". I'm not much of a stone thrower. . That was me and my son. No using a cell phone to kill a deer is not illegal in Indiana. My son is 18, has a prosthetic leg and missing his right hand from birth. I try my hardest every year to help him in any way I can to kill whatever game we are going after many times passing up an opportunity on something so he can take it. I guess those people using radios could be grouped in the same thread the. We use our cell phones mostly for communication to keep each other encouraged and occupied. What I did I did on my own personal property and I know for a fact that it is not illegal. I guess some might think baiting is unethical too…..go to Kentucky and say that to someone there who baits, won’t fly well because it’s legal. Your definition of ethics are different than others. One thing for sure, remember. Ethics goes on a whole lot more than just hunting……it’s everyday life and how we handle and act towards others whether they see it or not. Woody this was not directed towards you. Just putting it out there. Sorry if it sounded like I feel it was unethical. I would have and have done the same. Just saying some would feel that way. I do (think) but would have to look, the use of radio equipment to harvest wild game is illegal. I know for a fact it is in Minnesota where I live. We can however use them for nongame animals (coyotes).
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Post by hornzilla on Feb 4, 2022 13:50:23 GMT -5
Technology changes and so does the way we hunt. IF YOU SO CHOOSE. No one makes you use a cell cam if you choose not too. Technology sure has changed since the cave man days. The cave man sure would think the bow was unfair. Then the crossbow. Oh Lord look now at the muzzleloader. Don't look now here comes modern firearms. What now we have scopes? Range finders? So where should be go back to? Rocks? Spears? Its your tag. Hunt as you feel you should. Do not start making laws to affect others on your own feelings.
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