|
7mm
Dec 8, 2021 18:02:57 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by scrub-buster on Dec 8, 2021 18:02:57 GMT -5
Is a 7mm rifle legal for deer in Indiana?
How does a 7mm kick compared to a .243? I'm looking at getting one for a small framed woman. I found a compact sized model that should fit her.
|
|
|
Post by welder on Dec 8, 2021 18:07:57 GMT -5
I have no idea about the 7mm, however, I bought a Savage Axis in 350 Legend last spring and it's my new favorite rifle! Nearly zero recoil, light weight and ACCURATE!
|
|
|
Post by medic22 on Dec 8, 2021 19:07:16 GMT -5
7mm rem mag kicks like a ticked of mule, borrow before you buy.
And I might be biased here but 350 legend is a good recoil shy option.
|
|
|
Post by js2397 on Dec 8, 2021 19:43:35 GMT -5
It is legal on private ground. While the 7mm is not the softest recoiling gun a 7mm-08 would be a good choice.
|
|
|
7mm
Dec 8, 2021 19:46:52 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by scrub-buster on Dec 8, 2021 19:46:52 GMT -5
7mm rem mag kicks like a ticked of mule, borrow before you buy. And I might be biased here but 350 legend is a good recoil shy option. Thanks for the warning. Guess I'll try to find a youth model .243 for her.
|
|
|
Post by HuntMeister on Dec 8, 2021 21:38:32 GMT -5
243, 6.5, 25-06 or even 30-30 would be some good and recoil friendly choices.
|
|
|
Post by esshup on Dec 8, 2021 22:57:21 GMT -5
It all depends on the distance that you will be shooting the deer at, and whether it will be used for any hunts out West.
She should be hunting with hearing protection anyway (get a $100 or slightly less pair or Walker electronic earmuffs).
If she wears hearing protection she can have a partition style muzzle brake on it and it will make that 7mm Rem Mag have even less felt recoil than a .243.
Case in point. I have a 6# .243 and I shoot an 85g bullet at 3250 fps. Recoil Velocity is 10.8 ft/sec Recoil Energy is 10.9 ft/lb That is considered "Mild"
My 7mm Allen Magnum weighs 11 pounds, and I shoot a 180 grain bullet at 3250 fps Recoil Velocity is 13.3 ft/sec Recoil Energy is 30.3 ft/lb That is considered "Heavy"
With the partition style brake on it it feels just like my .243 does. But DON'T shoot it without hearing protection, not even once. If a person is standing slightly behind the shooter, and off to side @ 90°, the gas coming out of the brake makes them feel like they got punched in the chest. If at a public range, anybody within a few shooting benches away move after the first shot.
A 7mm Rem Mag that weighs 8 pounds shooting a 175g bullet at 2869 fps would be: Recoil Velocity is 13.5 ft/sec Recoil Energy is 22.5 ft/lb That is considered "Vigorous" and would be a little bit more recoil than shooting an 180g bullet in a 30-06
|
|
|
Post by span870 on Dec 9, 2021 7:32:35 GMT -5
Apples to oranges.
This is just me but i grew up shooting both hpr's and slug guns. I can shoot a 7mm all day long and have zero issues shooting it. If I have to shoot a slug gun, I'm flinching even before I load the gun. A rifle recoil is a push, a slug is a punch and we are talking something like 40 extra pounds of felt recoil.
With that being said, I know a lot of guys in hpr states that start their kids on the 7/08. Would I suggest the 7 mag for a beginner. No. Especially a small frame person. But I have a hatred for the 243 as a deer gun from personal experience. I think it's suited better for smaller game such as coyotes and maybe stretch to antelope, maybe. I'd lean more towards a 270 or 06 with managed recoil and good recoil pad. 25/06. 350 a great round for Indiana. All this depends on if it's going to be a public or private or both gun. That could narrow down specifics.
Now let the bashing of my hatred for the 243 begin. I realize they are on the level of the 6.5 creed that you just fire in the general direction of the deer and they gut and hang themselves but I'm just stating from personal experience and personal shot placement, I'm not a fan.
|
|
|
Post by esshup on Dec 9, 2021 8:04:11 GMT -5
Span870, I would and would not agree with you on the .243, but as I found out, that same sentiment could apply to any rifle if the improper bullet was used. Shot placement is key, as is bullet construction for the distance you will be shooting.
Who thinks a .257 Weatherby would not be OK on deer? From my experience with it early on, I thought it sucked. Shot a deer in the lungs at 87 yds with a 115 or 117 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet. There was about 3" of snow on the ground. Great tracking conditions. Went to where I hit the deer, no blood, a bit of hair. Followed the deer to where I saw it drop, not a speck of blood until the last 10 yards. Bullet went in and blew up, no exit. Dead deer for sure, but if there was no snow on the ground and very heavy brush, I might not have found it.
Then I started looking into bullet construction and bullet design, and how they are designed for certain impact speed ranges. Seems the NBT wasn't designed to hold together at impacts that are generated with the .257 Wby until the bullet slows down a bunch. So I switched to a Barnes copper bullet. Close range impact problem solved. I was planning on shooting a Dall Ram (high fenced hunt) at 300-400 yards. Well, that plan changed to a Corsican Ram and the dang thing wouldn't give me a shot at that distance. It started walking along the edge of the woods so I hurried up and got ahead of it. Turns out the shot was more like 15 yards. At the bullet impact, it went stiff legged and tipped over dead. It was on the ground before some of the hair floated down. The Barnes exited the ram, no problem.
So, I switched to a Barnes Bullet for the .243 (I reload for everything) and I haven't had a problem, and never had a bullet stay in a deer from 15 yds to over 200 yds.
After trying to get a buddies 6.5 Creed on steel at 800 yds from 500 yds we ran out of loaded ammo. I'm not impressed with it.
|
|
|
Post by jjas on Dec 9, 2021 8:10:53 GMT -5
As evidenced by the preceding posts, opinions on light recoiling rifles and what is/isn't enough energy for killing deer varies.
Personally, I would stick with a .350 legend, .243 (use heavier bullets), or 6.5 creedmoor (depending upon how close/far you figure she'll be shooting @ game).
Whatever she gets, if she doesn't enjoy shooting it, she either won't shoot it or she won't shoot it well (as she'll flinch when she pulls the trigger).
|
|
|
Post by deadeer on Dec 9, 2021 8:29:30 GMT -5
7-08 is a joy to shoot. Recoil friendly. Finding ammo for it could be a downfall tho if you dont reload.
7 mag is a handful. A muzzle brake tames the beast, but as said has tremendous blast. Ammo is easier to find. Pick your poison.
|
|
|
Post by span870 on Dec 9, 2021 8:43:11 GMT -5
As evidenced by the preceding posts, opinions on light recoiling rifles and what is/isn't enough energy for killing deer varies. Personally, I would stick with a .350 legend, .243 (use heavier bullets), or 6.5 creedmoor (depending upon how close/far you figure she'll be shooting @ game). Whatever she gets, if she doesn't enjoy shooting it, she either won't shoot it or she won't shoot it well (as she'll flinch when she pulls the trigger). My thoughts on the .243 goes to the one and only deer I ever shot with it. I used 100 grain core lokt which is the heaviest bullet I could find. I recovered said deer and bullet in the hide on opposite side. All but pass through. Zero blood. My more concern was recovering said bullet it performed flawlessly with consideration on what bullet should be thought to do. My issue is perfect performance and the bullet was the size of a pencil eraser. I like big holes and a margin for error. I don't like them as starter or kids rounds because of lack of margin. I've heard way too many stories of, and it's not recovering of game, it's lack of blood trails. Again, just my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by scrub-buster on Dec 9, 2021 9:03:55 GMT -5
Thanks for all of the input guys. She used my .243 this season. Our property is thick. It's sighted in at 50 yards. All but one of the deer I've killed with it were shots 20 yards and under. She shot her buck this year at 15 yards from the ground. She talks about having a youth model 20g when she was younger but it got taken from her. I might try to find one of those for her. She likes to deer hunt and I want to find something that fits her and is comfortable to shoot. I don't see her ever needing to take long range shots with it or using it on anything other than deer.
|
|
|
Post by jjas on Dec 9, 2021 9:09:19 GMT -5
As evidenced by the preceding posts, opinions on light recoiling rifles and what is/isn't enough energy for killing deer varies. Personally, I would stick with a .350 legend, .243 (use heavier bullets), or 6.5 creedmoor (depending upon how close/far you figure she'll be shooting @ game). Whatever she gets, if she doesn't enjoy shooting it, she either won't shoot it or she won't shoot it well (as she'll flinch when she pulls the trigger). My thoughts on the .243 goes to the one and only deer I ever shot with it. I used 100 grain core lokt which is the heaviest bullet I could find. I recovered said deer and bullet in the hide on opposite side. All but pass through. Zero blood. My more concern was recovering said bullet it performed flawlessly with consideration on what bullet should be thought to do. My issue is perfect performance and the bullet was the size of a pencil eraser. I like big holes and a margin for error. I don't like them as starter or kids rounds because of lack of margin. I've heard way too many stories of, and it's not recovering of game, it's lack of blood trails. Again, just my opinion. When looking for a lighter recoiling rifle the options aren't going to be as plentiful and none will be perfect. The .243 has been killing deer for 65 years. Is it the perfect choice? Probably not, but in the parameters of this situation, I think it's a good choice. The 7mm-08 (as has been mentioned, is another choice that might work). In the end, I'd rather have a person shoot a rifle that they are comfortable with and shoot well, versus a rifle that may have more energy, but that is tough for them to shoot and all they get out of shooting it is a nasty flinch.
|
|
|
Post by jjas on Dec 9, 2021 9:13:05 GMT -5
Thanks for all of the input guys. She used my .243 this season. Our property is thick. It's sighted in at 50 yards. All but one of the deer I've killed with it were shots 20 yards and under. She shot her buck this year at 25 yards from the ground. She talks about having a youth model 20g when she was younger but it got taken from her. I might try to find one of those for her. She likes to deer hunt and I want to find something that fits her and is comfortable to shoot. I don't see her ever needing to take long range shots with it or using it on anything other than deer. Based on the above, the .350 legend would be a good choice for her to try. It's made to handle the very situations you mentioned above and has replaced the slug gun for many people that hunt in states that require slug guns or straight wall cartridges like the .44 mag, .450 bushmaster, etc. Good luck with your decision.
|
|
|
Post by scrub-buster on Dec 9, 2021 9:15:37 GMT -5
Thanks for all of the input guys. She used my .243 this season. Our property is thick. It's sighted in at 50 yards. All but one of the deer I've killed with it were shots 20 yards and under. She shot her buck this year at 25 yards from the ground. She talks about having a youth model 20g when she was younger but it got taken from her. I might try to find one of those for her. She likes to deer hunt and I want to find something that fits her and is comfortable to shoot. I don't see her ever needing to take long range shots with it or using it on anything other than deer. Based on the above, the .350 legend would be a good choice for her to try. It's made to handle the very situations you mentioned above and has replaced the slug gun for many people that hunt in states that require slug guns or straight wall cartridges like the .44 mag, .450 bushmaster, etc. Good luck with your decision. Thanks. A .44 mag. is another option I haven't considered. It will probably come down to what I can find in a youth/compact size before Christmas.
|
|
|
Post by budd on Dec 9, 2021 9:24:35 GMT -5
My wife has shot a LOT of deer and she does not like the heavy recoil guns. She really liked her 308, killed several deer and always left a good blood trail. She shot a few with the 243 but I was never impressed with blood trails, found one deer only because we had snow on the ground. This year I switched her to a 6.5, she loves everything about it. My friend and his wife both shoot the 7mm08 and seem to really like the recoil and blood trails. I personally dont like shooting the 7mm because of recoil, never did deer hunt with it. I've always been a fan of the 25-06, 260rem, but I was pretty happy with the 6.5 barrel I bought for my Thompson this year.
|
|
|
Post by span870 on Dec 9, 2021 9:30:13 GMT -5
My thoughts on the .243 goes to the one and only deer I ever shot with it. I used 100 grain core lokt which is the heaviest bullet I could find. I recovered said deer and bullet in the hide on opposite side. All but pass through. Zero blood. My more concern was recovering said bullet it performed flawlessly with consideration on what bullet should be thought to do. My issue is perfect performance and the bullet was the size of a pencil eraser. I like big holes and a margin for error. I don't like them as starter or kids rounds because of lack of margin. I've heard way too many stories of, and it's not recovering of game, it's lack of blood trails. Again, just my opinion. When looking for a lighter recoiling rifle the options aren't going to be as plentiful and none will be perfect. The .243 has been killing deer for 65 years. Is it the perfect choice? Probably not, but in the parameters of this situation, I think it's a good choice. The 7mm-08 (as has been mentioned, is another choice that might work). In the end, I'd rather have a person shoot a rifle that they are comfortable with and shoot well, versus a rifle that may have more energy, but that is tough for them to shoot and all they get out of shooting it is a nasty flinch. Absolutely agree 100%. But within indiana parameters, most things considered, I'd think a 350 or 44 would outshine the 243. Again, indiana. Most shots well under 200 yards. I'd just rather have someone new throwing a bigger chunk of lead with more energy transfer than a 243. This is if just going to be an indiana gun. If plans to go out west with it, I think the 243 falls even farther behind. Will the 243 work? Sure. Only caveat I'd give is stay as far away from controlled expansion as you could, broadside shots through the lungs and absolutely away from heavy bone. Again, just personal experience shooting many animals with hprs, just not a huge fan. I think it's on the lower end of minimum. Is it a choice, yes but in my opinion, again for Indiana only, not the best choice.
|
|
|
Post by medic22 on Dec 9, 2021 10:13:00 GMT -5
Thanks for all of the input guys. She used my .243 this season. Our property is thick. It's sighted in at 50 yards. All but one of the deer I've killed with it were shots 20 yards and under. She shot her buck this year at 15 yards from the ground. She talks about having a youth model 20g when she was younger but it got taken from her. I might try to find one of those for her. She likes to deer hunt and I want to find something that fits her and is comfortable to shoot. I don't see her ever needing to take long range shots with it or using it on anything other than deer. At 50 yards a 7mm mag bullet isn't even stabilized. At those ranges I'd look at the 350 legend, 300 blackout (do not shoot subsonics), even a 20 gauge slug gun are better options.
|
|
|
Post by scrub-buster on Dec 9, 2021 10:31:05 GMT -5
The more I think about it the more I'm leaning towards a youth 20g. It would work well for the close shots on our property and it would have sentimental value to her. Whenever we discuss guns she brings up her old youth 20g and talks about how well it fit her. Her ex took it in the divorce and won't give it back to her. I think it would mean a lot to her if I found one to replace it.
|
|