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Post by sculver7 on Nov 30, 2021 10:25:16 GMT -5
I 100% agree with you. They are not the same thing. As I stated before, I have no issue with crossbows. However, archery season hunting has been flooded because of the option to use a crossbow by people that have never even thought about hunting archery season before crossbows were allowed. My problem lies with people, regardless of what weapon they are using, not getting themselves to be proficient with their choice of weapon and in my opinion, the number of people hunting archery season without being proficient with their weapon is pretty high. I know we all make a bad shot now and again, that;s part of hunting a live and wild animal. That being said, archery season is a catalyst for this when you have people hunting not being proficient with their weapon. Now, I think the argument could be made that crossbows have increased how easily it is to become proficient with your weapon, but now we're getting into the philosophical discussion of where is the line on what level of fair chase is acceptable for an archery season and I'm going to choose not to even get into that one... Again, I HAVE NO ISSUE WITH CROSSBOWS.... I just like discussion. But would you still be upset with the number of people hunting archery season if everybody met your definition/standard of proficient? I'm not upset with the number of people hunting archery season. What I am upset about is the number of people across all seasons that don't seem to have an ounce of respect for what hunting is: taking the life of an animal. And it gets worse and worse every year. I just happen to see it most with archery, partially because one of the public pieces I hunt is an area that is archery only. The number of times that I have seen people do downright unethical things in the name of hunting is ridiculous. And worse, they laugh and are arrogant about it. The worst part is that the people that work for the DNR and these properties don't do anything to make it better. So basically it boils down to this: you've got a bunch of people making a mockery of hunting (a lot of whom are from out of state... one state in particular), they do a bunch of things that hurt deer, deer hunting, deer hunters, etc., and then the people who are supposed to take care of these issues, don't do a thing to fix it. Then again, I can't recall the last time government did anything good, so... I don't know if it'll ever get better.
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Post by firstwd on Nov 30, 2021 11:42:31 GMT -5
Legal is legal and ethical is personal. Forcing one's ethical beliefs onto others is no better than forcing one's personal deer hunting weapon onto others.
If you are witnessing illegal behavior it is up to you to report it to the proper authorities. The DNR Central Dispatch number or the T.I.P. hotline number are great ones to have in your phone. If the violation is immediate or life endangering 911 always works.
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Post by jman46151 on Nov 30, 2021 12:23:56 GMT -5
Since Indiana has included crossbows in the early archery season how much has the harvest increased in the archery. season. A dead deer is a dead deer whether it died from a broadhead or lead. To answer your question at face value, archery harvest has gone up around 10% I believe. If you dive deeper you see that that increase is more of a shift from gun to archery.
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Post by tynimiller on Nov 30, 2021 12:54:57 GMT -5
Do you think there would be an audience for all weapons, all season until the state hits said quota per county? You get rid of bad archery shots to some degree, Or are we kind of already trending that way with the advancement of weaponry? It is slowly becoming that but at a VERY slow pace honestly. YEARS before muzzleloaders became inlines, years before HPRs allowed, years before crossbows brought into archery as normal....slowly but one could make that argument. Is it good or bad, I could argue factors are in both. There would be a MASSIVE push if the DNR asked hunters to just have a three month season, any weapon. Firearms hunters are still the massive majority, they'd easily outnumber those opposed most likely. ... meet state objectives, and if most kill early, you won’t be killing as many breed does? Well biologists, most hunters and any logical observer already knows the time in which a doe is harvested changes nothing to the output of fawns the following year - she still produces 0. So that specific point would never be considered as worth giving weight in management decisions.
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Post by firstwd on Nov 30, 2021 13:02:05 GMT -5
All of the arguments/petitions I'm seeing on other social media outlets/pages have been based on we are killing too many deer and the DNR needs to make antlerless deer wat less of that number. None of those people accept the DNR is where the DNR wants to be.
How about we see what the current proposals do before we try to change more?
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Post by jjas on Nov 30, 2021 13:25:06 GMT -5
All of the arguments/petitions I'm seen on other social media outlets/pages have been based on we are killing too many deer and the DNR needs to make antlerless deer wat less of that number. None of those people accept the DNR is where the DNR wants to be. How about we see what the current proposals do before we try to change more? I agree 100%. I've said for years that overall the DNR does a good job and people should quit constantly complaining and be thankful for what we have. Can you imagine trying to appease hunters who constantly second guess every move that you make? I wouldn't have the patience for the nonsense they have to listen to.
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Post by greghopper on Nov 30, 2021 13:25:55 GMT -5
I 100% agree with you. They are not the same thing. As I stated before, I have no issue with crossbows. However, archery season hunting has been flooded because of the option to use a crossbow by people that have never even thought about hunting archery season before crossbows were allowed. My problem lies with people, regardless of what weapon they are using, not getting themselves to be proficient with their choice of weapon and in my opinion, the number of people hunting archery season without being proficient with their weapon is pretty high. I know we all make a bad shot now and again, that;s part of hunting a live and wild animal. That being said, archery season is a catalyst for this when you have people hunting not being proficient with their weapon. Now, I think the argument could be made that crossbows have increased how easily it is to become proficient with your weapon, but now we're getting into the philosophical discussion of where is the line on what level of fair chase is acceptable for an archery season and I'm going to choose not to even get into that one... Again, I HAVE NO ISSUE WITH CROSSBOWS.... I just like discussion. But would you still be upset with the number of people hunting archery season if everybody met your definition/standard of proficient?Hammer meets Nail...... One's definition/standard of proficient can very largely! Hunters have been making bad shots forever this isn't something that started when crossbows & Rifles came legal...It's just now highlighted by social media IMO
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Post by jimbob on Nov 30, 2021 13:29:22 GMT -5
Do you think there would be an audience for all weapons, all season until the state hits said quota per county? You get rid of bad archery shots to some degree, Or are we kind of already trending that way with the advancement of weaponry? It is slowly becoming that but at a VERY slow pace honestly. YEARS before muzzleloaders became inlines, years before HPRs allowed, years before crossbows brought into archery as normal....slowly but one could make that argument. Is it good or bad, I could argue factors are in both. There would be a MASSIVE push if the DNR asked hunters to just have a three month season, any weapon. Firearms hunters are still the massive majority, they'd easily outnumber those opposed most likely. ... meet state objectives, and if most kill early, you won’t be killing as many breed does? Well biologists, most hunters and any logical observer already knows the time in which a doe is harvested changes nothing to the output of fawns the following year - she still produces 0. So that specific point would never be considered as worth giving weight in management decisions. I wasn’t saying for management purposes… just an added bonus. It just feels different pulling a fetus out during late season hunts.
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Post by greghopper on Nov 30, 2021 13:42:13 GMT -5
If that's an issue for anyone just don't hunt late season.... No different than killing a young Deer in Oct. with its mother's milk in its mouth!
BTW..."late season" is BOW I assume you're saying.
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Post by boonechaser on Nov 30, 2021 14:35:48 GMT -5
If that's an issue for anyone just don't hunt late season.... No different than killing a young Deer in Oct. with its mother's milk in its mouth! BTW..."late season" is BOW I assume you're saying. Yea, that's more a personal issue and makes no difference in population or mgt. picture, BUT I will say the older I get those things seem to bother me more. LOL. I have talked myself out of shooting 2 does lately because they still had young ones with them. As a general rule I look to take out 1.5 year old does or lone does for my doe harvest's. This year I am only going to shoot 1 doe as population is about where it needs to be and only need a little more meat for freezer. My home farm is shut down with feeders already out but I have a 80 acre lease to hunt yet so I'll be out with bow or muzzy some soon to get 1 yet.
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Post by sculver7 on Nov 30, 2021 16:06:49 GMT -5
Legal is legal and ethical is personal. Forcing one's ethical beliefs onto others is no better than forcing one's personal deer hunting weapon onto others. If you are witnessing illegal behavior it is up to you to report it to the proper authorities. The DNR Central Dispatch number or the T.I.P. hotline number are great ones to have in your phone. If the violation is immediate or life endangering 911 always works. I totally agree with you. I guess when I say ethical, I should really be saying legal. That is why I have reported numerous times in the past, especially last year. People driving vehicles through the woods on public land past the gates that specifically say no vehicle traffic, people chasing deer through the woods in pickup trucks in the same area, people using the wrong weapons for the season... the list goes on and on. Reported to DNR offices numerous times with license plate numbers, pictures, etc. This is all after I confronted some of these people in the field. These wildlife properties are like the wild west with quite a few people disregarding every and all rules/regulations. And when I go to the DNR with this information... crickets. Even saw one guy who I confronted, then reported to DNR, doing the same exact thing that I reported him and confronted him for. This is just on top of the normal having cameras stolen, intentionally covered with brush, treestands stolen, etc. Report all you want, nothing happens. I'm not trying to rant, I'm just tired of some people having complete disregard for other hunters and the animals we hunt.
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Post by tynimiller on Nov 30, 2021 16:07:54 GMT -5
Personally I'm about to reign fire down on some button bucks, I have like a million of them and buck numbers are of no issue for me LOL
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Post by greghopper on Nov 30, 2021 16:23:56 GMT -5
Personally I'm about to reign fire down on some button bucks, I have like a million of them and buck numbers are of no issue for me LOL Don’t shoot the Booners… lol
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Post by tynimiller on Nov 30, 2021 16:27:55 GMT -5
Personally I'm about to reign fire down on some button bucks, I have like a million of them and buck numbers are of no issue for me LOL Don’t shoot the Booners… lol If they're under three inches I'll embrace the "antlerless" title and still chase my reduction zone booner for a bit longer LOL Honestly I usually wouldn't like targeting buttons, but my doe numbers in the area are stable/good - not amazing, but my doe usage on the property took a hit when the neighbors to the northeast took off their three acre piece two of the main old ladies of the two groups that used my place nearly daily. The new "leaders" seemed to choose elsewhere and really this year just one lone two year old doe and her two youngins were the "regulars" with the rest maybe using once or twice a week so gonna ease up on the does this year personally. Oh and that two year old mom, the neighbors shot last week, so really not targeting any does unless the late colds bring in some fresh ones from elsewhere on the food sources. It's fairly common for me to not harvest does out there though as the neighbors usually do, and I like to wait till the very end of December to see if any IMO should be taken.
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Post by firstwd on Nov 30, 2021 17:24:31 GMT -5
Legal is legal and ethical is personal. Forcing one's ethical beliefs onto others is no better than forcing one's personal deer hunting weapon onto others. If you are witnessing illegal behavior it is up to you to report it to the proper authorities. The DNR Central Dispatch number or the T.I.P. hotline number are great ones to have in your phone. If the violation is immediate or life endangering 911 always works. I totally agree with you. I guess when I say ethical, I should really be saying legal. That is why I have reported numerous times in the past, especially last year. People driving vehicles through the woods on public land past the gates that specifically say no vehicle traffic, people chasing deer through the woods in pickup trucks in the same area, people using the wrong weapons for the season... the list goes on and on. Reported to DNR offices numerous times with license plate numbers, pictures, etc. This is all after I confronted some of these people in the field. These wildlife properties are like the wild west with quite a few people disregarding every and all rules/regulations. And when I go to the DNR with this information... crickets. Even saw one guy who I confronted, then reported to DNR, doing the same exact thing that I reported him and confronted him for. This is just on top of the normal having cameras stolen, intentionally covered with brush, treestands stolen, etc. Report all you want, nothing happens. I'm not trying to rant, I'm just tired of some people having complete disregard for other hunters and the animals we hunt. Telling property workers about violations won't do you much good unless the property manager or assistant manager can catch them. You need to report to the law enforcement division so they can actually write citations. If you have that kind of evidence and are getting zero help from the properties themselves, you need to contact the DNR director and let the ball roll downhill. Things move slow, or at least slower than the general public likes, but they do move. If you make a post about the situations you have been experiencing in the Ask the CO forum on this site, Larry will give you the contact information for who you need to report them to.
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Post by esshup on Dec 1, 2021 9:48:25 GMT -5
I 100% agree with you. They are not the same thing. As I stated before, I have no issue with crossbows. However, archery season hunting has been flooded because of the option to use a crossbow by people that have never even thought about hunting archery season before crossbows were allowed. My problem lies with people, regardless of what weapon they are using, not getting themselves to be proficient with their choice of weapon and in my opinion, the number of people hunting archery season without being proficient with their weapon is pretty high. I know we all make a bad shot now and again, that;s part of hunting a live and wild animal. That being said, archery season is a catalyst for this when you have people hunting not being proficient with their weapon. Now, I think the argument could be made that crossbows have increased how easily it is to become proficient with your weapon, but now we're getting into the philosophical discussion of where is the line on what level of fair chase is acceptable for an archery season and I'm going to choose not to even get into that one... Again, I HAVE NO ISSUE WITH CROSSBOWS.... I just like discussion. But would you still be upset with the number of people hunting archery season if everybody met your definition/standard of proficient? I have the same issue with people that aren't proficient with the tool that they want to use and I would not be upset if they knew how to use it. I would really like to see a proficiency test done on a yearly basis for hunters, lifetime license holders included. For every weapon they will use. I swear that there is at least one European country that did that for people that were hunting moose.
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Post by jjas on Dec 1, 2021 9:56:14 GMT -5
esshup
I can't imagine that ever passing in any state.
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Post by Mack Apiary Bees on Dec 1, 2021 10:02:33 GMT -5
The group of hunters (30) that have hunter together for 40 years is I good bases to use. We all started out in 1980 gun and ML hunting. I was the 1st to bow hunt in 1986 and over the years we all became bow hunters. Now out of the original group there are two of us left bow hunting. My brother and I still bow hunt. The others are back to gun/ML only. We are the only ones that put down the compound and purchased a crossbow. This allows use to still bow hunt.
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Post by esshup on Dec 1, 2021 10:06:14 GMT -5
But would you still be upset with the number of people hunting archery season if everybody met your definition/standard of proficient?Hammer meets Nail...... One's definition/standard of proficient can very largely! Hunters have been making bad shots forever this isn't something that started when crossbows & Rifles came legal...It's just now highlighted by social media IMO From a rest, with a rifle, 3" groups at 100 yards is what I would be comfortable seeing set as a goal by the state. When I say rest, I am talking about a set of shooting sticks, leaning your hand on a tree holding the rifle, etc. If the rifle was supported front and back as in from a shooting bench, 2" at 100 yds would be maximum group size allowed. Muzzleloader? 3" @ 100 yds. Same for a slug gun shooting sabots. For a smooth bore shotgun shooting rifled slugs, 3" at 50 yds. Archery equipment? 4" at 20 yds. Pistol? Same as Archery. Those are at stationary targets. For a moving target, IF that were to be in the test requirement, (why shoot at a moving target in the first place?) I'd love to see in the kill zone at 40 yds for a rifle, slug gun and muzzleloader. Archery and pistol, in the kill zone at 15 yds. For bird hunters, you'd have to score a minimum of 13 on a regulation skeet field out of 25 to be qualified. That's what I'd love to see for John Q. Public. My personal standard of proficiency is much higher than that.
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Post by esshup on Dec 1, 2021 10:07:18 GMT -5
esshup I can't imagine that ever passing in any state. I agree, but I have to question why someone wouldn't want it.
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