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Post by jman46151 on Oct 13, 2021 8:41:13 GMT -5
If you look @ the data in Indiana over the years, we tend to kill does and antlered bucks in roughly the same numbers. It might be different during the few years when the state was trying to lower the number of does with the late antlerless season, but other than that it's roughly 1 to 1 antlered bucks to does. The wildcard in all of this, is that most years end up like last year when hunters killed 55,438 antlered bucks, 57,073 does, 11,661 button bucks and 8 shed antlered bucks. If we want to have more bucks, then we could try to make sure that we aren't killing buttons. BTW, it's not like this just in Indiana. This happens in most states @ a rate of roughly 10% of the total harvest, so it's not just Hoosier hunters who are killing buttons in significant numbers. But, it we cut that number in half, we'd be adding 5,000+ more bucks a year to the herd without doing anything else. This is an extremely valid point. I think so often we look at the numbers without actually analyzing them. It is so easy to separate the number from being the actual number of individual deer killed. I would also say that the vast majority of people that kill buttons do so without knowing that they are shooting a button. Give those buttons another year where they actually show some antler, the likelihood of them being shot at that point I would assume drops dastically at least for another year. Basically what I'm trying to say is that if a buck makes it to a year and a half old, it is much more likely to make it to two and a half, but too many get killed in their first year because people can't tell they are bucks. As far as enforcing this... that would be tough. Great point, though jjas . That also brings us back to the original question in the thread. Button bucks are smaller in October and it should be a little easier to tell them apart from a doe. Shooting at shorter ranges with archery should also make it easier to tell. I'm guilty of not knowing, I killed a button buck once during MZ season 7-8 years ago. I just thought it was a small doe. |
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Post by jman46151 on Oct 13, 2021 8:48:19 GMT -5
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Post by Mack Apiary Bees on Oct 13, 2021 9:41:23 GMT -5
Link to that data? Thanks I'll try to find it. I think maybe it came in a Meateater email or some other hunting email so I've probably deleted it by now. Where I live there are hundreds of deer. Somewhere around 185 to 220 deer per square mile. That is almost 1 deer per any 3 acres. I still have baby fawns that are very small and dots. There are does with one, two or three. I have one old 8 year old doe that had triplets every year except 1st year. That doe now is so secretly that I've only seen her with the triplets 5 times this year. Three time just the past two weeks under the white oak tree. She has never left the general 40 acres. Runs the same routes of either one of three bed areas. Most times two bed areas. One bed just off my property and one across the private drive. The deer cut through my side front property from big bed #1 to second biggest bed #2 most times. If 1 or 2 is full or certain deer there they bed in #3 that cuts through my back corner of my property. Either way they cut through my property between the 3 beds. Sometimes they bed in my back area. I see so many deer it's not funny, but seeing 3 year old bucks and 4 year old does is another story. I should be seeing the older deer very soon. |
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Post by sculver7 on Oct 13, 2021 9:56:48 GMT -5
This is an extremely valid point. I think so often we look at the numbers without actually analyzing them. It is so easy to separate the number from being the actual number of individual deer killed. I would also say that the vast majority of people that kill buttons do so without knowing that they are shooting a button. Give those buttons another year where they actually show some antler, the likelihood of them being shot at that point I would assume drops dastically at least for another year. Basically what I'm trying to say is that if a buck makes it to a year and a half old, it is much more likely to make it to two and a half, but too many get killed in their first year because people can't tell they are bucks. As far as enforcing this... that would be tough. Great point, though jjas . That also brings us back to the original question in the thread. Button bucks are smaller in October and it should be a little easier to tell them apart from a doe. Shooting at shorter ranges with archery should also make it easier to tell. I'm guilty of not knowing, I killed a button buck once during MZ season 7-8 years ago. I just thought it was a small doe. I've done it before too. I shot a button back in 2014 with my bow. Doesn't make you feel good and I am way more analytical in making sure it isn't a button now. That being said, I can see how it would be easy for someone to make the mistake or worse yet, just not care that they are shooting a button. Again, I don't know what the solution is and what the appropriate answer to this question is. |
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Post by Mack Apiary Bees on Oct 13, 2021 10:01:36 GMT -5
That also brings us back to the original question in the thread. Button bucks are smaller in October and it should be a little easier to tell them apart from a doe. Shooting at shorter ranges with archery should also make it easier to tell. I'm guilty of not knowing, I killed a button buck once during MZ season 7-8 years ago. I just thought it was a small doe. I've done it before too. I shot a button back in 2014 with my bow. Doesn't make you feel good and I am way more analytical in making sure it isn't a button now. That being said, I can see how it would be easy for someone to make the mistake or worse yet, just not care that they are shooting a button. Again, I don't know what the solution is and what the appropriate answer to this question is. One thing I look for is the back of the deer. Bucks tend to have a flatter back across the front to back, where does have a raised hump in the center of the back. One other is a doe end is more rounded verse a buck being more right angle. |
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Post by whitetaildave24 on Oct 13, 2021 10:22:35 GMT -5
That also brings us back to the original question in the thread. Button bucks are smaller in October and it should be a little easier to tell them apart from a doe. Shooting at shorter ranges with archery should also make it easier to tell. I'm guilty of not knowing, I killed a button buck once during MZ season 7-8 years ago. I just thought it was a small doe. I've done it before too. I shot a button back in 2014 with my bow. Doesn't make you feel good and I am way more analytical in making sure it isn't a button now. That being said, I can see how it would be easy for someone to make the mistake or worse yet, just not care that they are shooting a button. Again, I don't know what the solution is and what the appropriate answer to this question is. Why is it worse that they knowingly shoot buttons? It’s not forbidden. Pretty sure it was someone on here that purposely shot buttons instead of does to fill anterless tags after an EHD outbreak. I’ve killed plenty of buttons in my time and never felt sorry once. |
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Post by sculver7 on Oct 13, 2021 10:46:32 GMT -5
I've done it before too. I shot a button back in 2014 with my bow. Doesn't make you feel good and I am way more analytical in making sure it isn't a button now. That being said, I can see how it would be easy for someone to make the mistake or worse yet, just not care that they are shooting a button. Again, I don't know what the solution is and what the appropriate answer to this question is. Why is it worse that they knowingly shoot buttons? It’s not forbidden. Pretty sure it was someone on here that purposely shot buttons instead of does to fill anterless tags after an EHD outbreak. I’ve killed plenty of buttons in my time and never felt sorry once. Of course it's totally legal and I don't think badly of someone who does shoot them. Meat is meat. I am talking purely from the perspective of maintaining a population of quality bucks, in which case, it is best to not shoot buttons. |
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Post by lawrencecountyhunter on Oct 13, 2021 10:54:37 GMT -5
It didn't have anything to do with EHD, but I have intentionally killed button bucks before in areas that I felt needed some growth in the herd.
You kill a male deer, whether it's a 6 month old or 6 year old, you are reducing the population by one deer. You kill a doe, and you are removing that deer and also all of the potential offspring that doe would otherwise produce.
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Post by duff on Oct 13, 2021 12:04:57 GMT -5
It didn't have anything to do with EHD, but I have intentionally killed button bucks before in areas that I felt needed some growth in the herd. You kill a male deer, whether it's a 6 month old or 6 year old, you are reducing the population by one deer. You kill a doe, and you are removing that deer and also all of the potential offspring that doe would otherwise produce. Not bad logic for a knucle dragger |
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