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Post by Sasquatch on Oct 12, 2021 7:57:18 GMT -5
I think it would only affect the bucks if everyone around shot the does at a particular time vs. another.
For most of my career I shot them whenever I saw them because we needed them to eat. Also, in my neck of the wood, does-- and deer period-- are much harder to get after leaf drop because they flee the more open ridgetops for the hollers.
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Post by deadeer on Oct 12, 2021 8:13:45 GMT -5
I have no biased when to take them. The few I have taken early only make for tougher butchering with warmer temps. I prefer colder.
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Post by firstwd on Oct 12, 2021 10:17:01 GMT -5
It might simply be the funk that I'm in, or maybe my aging body is making my "just ignore it" abilities falter. Am I the only one that whenever they read or hear of all these different strategies simply hears "whatever I can think of to make it easier to kill an buck"?
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Post by jman46151 on Oct 12, 2021 10:24:31 GMT -5
It might simply be the funk that I'm in, or maybe my aging body is making my "just ignore it" abilities falter. Am I the only one that whenever they read or hear of all these different strategies simply hears "whatever I can think of to make it easier to kill an buck"? Pretty much. Different angle here though - there is also research that killing does will allow the remaining does to have more twins and triplets therefore making more bucks. I read somewhere that a majority of does with twins or triplets there's a high chance one of them is a male whereas if she has one fawn only there's a high percentage it's a female.
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Post by greghopper on Oct 12, 2021 10:35:08 GMT -5
It might simply be the funk that I'm in, or maybe my aging body is making my "just ignore it" abilities falter. Am I the only one that whenever they read or hear of all these different strategies simply hears "whatever I can think of to make it easier to kill an buck"? Pretty much. Different angle here though - there is also research that killing does will allow the remaining does to have more twins and triplets therefore making more bucks. I read somewhere that a majority of does with twins or triplets there's a high chance one of them is a male whereas if she has one fawn only there's a high percentage it's a female. Link to that data? Thanks
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Post by jjas on Oct 12, 2021 10:47:41 GMT -5
It might simply be the funk that I'm in, or maybe my aging body is making my "just ignore it" abilities falter. Am I the only one that whenever they read or hear of all these different strategies simply hears "whatever I can think of to make it easier to kill an buck"? Pretty much. Different angle here though - there is also research that killing does will allow the remaining does to have more twins and triplets therefore making more bucks. I read somewhere that a majority of does with twins or triplets there's a high chance one of them is a male whereas if she has one fawn only there's a high percentage it's a female. If you look @ the data in Indiana over the years, we tend to kill does and antlered bucks in roughly the same numbers. It might be different during the few years when the state was trying to lower the number of does with the late antlerless season, but other than that it's roughly 1 to 1 antlered bucks to does. The wildcard in all of this, is that most years end up like last year when hunters killed 55,438 antlered bucks, 57,073 does, 11,661 button bucks and 8 shed antlered bucks. If we want to have more bucks, then we could try to make sure that we aren't killing buttons. BTW, it's not like this just in Indiana. This happens in most states @ a rate of roughly 10% of the total harvest, so it's not just Hoosier hunters who are killing buttons in significant numbers. But, it we cut that number in half, we'd be adding 5,000+ more bucks a year to the herd without doing anything else.
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Post by tine-n-spur on Oct 12, 2021 13:11:53 GMT -5
Personally I harvest what my license allows, be it buck or doe whatever presents itself.regardless of time of day, day of week, or what month it is.
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Post by sculver7 on Oct 12, 2021 13:16:35 GMT -5
Pretty much. Different angle here though - there is also research that killing does will allow the remaining does to have more twins and triplets therefore making more bucks. I read somewhere that a majority of does with twins or triplets there's a high chance one of them is a male whereas if she has one fawn only there's a high percentage it's a female. If you look @ the data in Indiana over the years, we tend to kill does and antlered bucks in roughly the same numbers. It might be different during the few years when the state was trying to lower the number of does with the late antlerless season, but other than that it's roughly 1 to 1 antlered bucks to does. The wildcard in all of this, is that most years end up like last year when hunters killed 55,438 antlered bucks, 57,073 does, 11,661 button bucks and 8 shed antlered bucks. If we want to have more bucks, then we could try to make sure that we aren't killing buttons. BTW, it's not like this just in Indiana. This happens in most states @ a rate of roughly 10% of the total harvest, so it's not just Hoosier hunters who are killing buttons in significant numbers. But, it we cut that number in half, we'd be adding 5,000+ more bucks a year to the herd without doing anything else. This is an extremely valid point. I think so often we look at the numbers without actually analyzing them. It is so easy to separate the number from being the actual number of individual deer killed. I would also say that the vast majority of people that kill buttons do so without knowing that they are shooting a button. Give those buttons another year where they actually show some antler, the likelihood of them being shot at that point I would assume drops dastically at least for another year. Basically what I'm trying to say is that if a buck makes it to a year and a half old, it is much more likely to make it to two and a half, but too many get killed in their first year because people can't tell they are bucks. As far as enforcing this... that would be tough. Great point, though jjas.
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Post by greghopper on Oct 12, 2021 13:48:00 GMT -5
If you look @ the data in Indiana over the years, we tend to kill does and antlered bucks in roughly the same numbers. It might be different during the few years when the state was trying to lower the number of does with the late antlerless season, but other than that it's roughly 1 to 1 antlered bucks to does. The wildcard in all of this, is that most years end up like last year when hunters killed 55,438 antlered bucks, 57,073 does, 11,661 button bucks and 8 shed antlered bucks. If we want to have more bucks, then we could try to make sure that we aren't killing buttons. BTW, it's not like this just in Indiana. This happens in most states @ a rate of roughly 10% of the total harvest, so it's not just Hoosier hunters who are killing buttons in significant numbers. But, it we cut that number in half, we'd be adding 5,000+ more bucks a year to the herd without doing anything else. This is an extremely valid point. I think so often we look at the numbers without actually analyzing them. It is so easy to separate the number from being the actual number of individual deer killed. I would also say that the vast majority of people that kill buttons do so without knowing that they are shooting a button. Give those buttons another year where they actually show some antler, the likelihood of them being shot at that point I would assume drops dastically at least for another year. Basically what I'm trying to say is that if a buck makes it to a year and a half old, it is much more likely to make it to two and a half, but too many get killed in their first year because people can't tell they are bucks. As far as enforcing this... that would be tough. Great point, though jjas. Aren't Spikes counted as button bucks when it come to harvest numbers? A button buck usually tends to be a buck that is only 6 months old...A spike is usually a buck that is a year and a half. old Maybe jjas can explain were the "11,661 button bucks" info came from ....I don't see that information in the 2020 report.
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Post by sculver7 on Oct 12, 2021 13:52:48 GMT -5
This is an extremely valid point. I think so often we look at the numbers without actually analyzing them. It is so easy to separate the number from being the actual number of individual deer killed. I would also say that the vast majority of people that kill buttons do so without knowing that they are shooting a button. Give those buttons another year where they actually show some antler, the likelihood of them being shot at that point I would assume drops dastically at least for another year. Basically what I'm trying to say is that if a buck makes it to a year and a half old, it is much more likely to make it to two and a half, but too many get killed in their first year because people can't tell they are bucks. As far as enforcing this... that would be tough. Great point, though jjas . Aren't Spikes counted as button bucks when it come to harvest numbers? A button buck usually tends to be a buck that is only 6 months old...A spike is usually a buck that is a year and a half. old Maybe jjas can explain were the "11,661 button bucks" info came from ....I don't see that information in the 2020 report. I believe the regs read that if the deer has one antler that is over 3" in length, it counts as an antlered deer. If neither antler measures over 3", it is a non-antlered deer.
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Post by greghopper on Oct 12, 2021 13:57:25 GMT -5
Yeah....thus checked in as a antlerless male Deer (BB/spike). Spikes are usually easy to see vs a BB
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Post by jjas on Oct 12, 2021 14:02:23 GMT -5
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Post by greghopper on Oct 12, 2021 14:08:49 GMT -5
Here is what is listed in 2020 report Looks like BB and spike are lumped together...Thus the point I am pointing at. We didn’t kill "11,661 button bucks" betting alot of them were spikes.
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Post by Huntnfreak on Oct 12, 2021 14:18:53 GMT -5
Dead does don’t reproduce...regardless of when they’re harvested...bottom line. Happy arguing!! 😁
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Post by jjas on Oct 12, 2021 20:32:42 GMT -5
Greghopper
Where in the report does it say anything about spikes being counted as buttons? Any by spikes do you mean a deer that has one antler less than 3 inches?
Thanks
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Post by greghopper on Oct 12, 2021 20:37:25 GMT -5
Greghopper Where in the report does it say anything about spikes being counted as buttons? Any by spikes do you mean a deer that has one antler less than 3 inches? Thanks Yeah… both antlers less then 3 inches. That’s a deer checked in as a antlerless deer … all antlerless male deer aren’t BB some are spikes!
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Post by INhuntin on Oct 12, 2021 20:42:04 GMT -5
There is an old saying "Never pass up a deer on the first day of the hunt that you would be happy to take on the last day of the hunt." I take mostly does anyway.
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Post by jjas on Oct 12, 2021 21:35:42 GMT -5
greghopper
I'm not disputing what you are saying, but I'd like to see where you saw that and if they break it down.
Regardless of the above, what I said earlier is still true. Hoosier hunters killed 11,661 buttons (and apparently spikes with antlers shorter than 3 inches) last hunting season.
If we were more careful about not killing those bucks, we could add a lot more bucks to the herd every season.
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Post by esshup on Oct 12, 2021 23:23:35 GMT -5
And always remember, you kill it on October 1st or the last day of the season, you're also killing at least one fawn. Getting geared up for that argument this year again. It's one of my top 3 reasons to be in Facebook jail. I plan on killing a couple of coyotes, so I will still be in the black. LOL One place I hunted IIRC 2 years ago I saw bucks at the rate of 3-4 for every doe that I saw. Scraggly forkies, one spike buck that had to be at least 10" tall, etc. VERY few bucks with any quality.
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Post by jman46151 on Oct 13, 2021 8:32:49 GMT -5
Pretty much. Different angle here though - there is also research that killing does will allow the remaining does to have more twins and triplets therefore making more bucks. I read somewhere that a majority of does with twins or triplets there's a high chance one of them is a male whereas if she has one fawn only there's a high percentage it's a female. Link to that data? Thanks I'll try to find it. I think maybe it came in a Meateater email or some other hunting email so I've probably deleted it by now.
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