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Post by michaelc on Jan 25, 2020 10:23:29 GMT -5
How does another state's regulations help us Indiana Hunters anyway. I've tried to understand other state regulations as for deer hunting goes and its very confusing to me, not to mention the non-resident fees and all the other factors you figure in. I'm not gonna spend that kind of money for that unless I have a 100% money back guarantee, and let's face it you don't get that option. That's like going and buying $800 dollars worth of lottery tickets. What is the % chance of winning that money back? I guarantee you your % chances are greater losing than winning, and to me I look at non-resident fees the same way.
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Post by mattfinney on Jan 25, 2020 10:40:45 GMT -5
Matt, Do you live or hunt in Indiana or are you an Iowa resident? Hi there, I was born and raised in Indiana. Currently live about 15 minutes southeast of Columbus. I grew up in Morgan County, moved to Terre Haute in my early twenties, and moved to my current location about 5 years ago. I have only hunted Iowa twice. The first time was 2 years ago, the second was this past November. I've only hunted in Iowa about 14 days total and took the biggest buck of my life. This year I saw 130+ inchers on 4 out of 5 days. That's more than I typically see in multiple seasons on Indiana public land. Keep in mind, I was hunting the easiest-to-draw unit (zone 3). I've heard from others that the harder-to-draw units blow zone 3 out of the water. There's something special about Iowa, and I think that as more state DNR's start running out of money, a hard look at Iowa's model might be very beneficial. As I said before, even though hunter numbers as a whole are dropping, the number of very serious, out-of-state hunters is increasing. It's easy to see with the point-creep that's happening for virtually all limited tags.
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Post by lawrencecountyhunter on Jan 25, 2020 10:42:12 GMT -5
How does another state's regulations help us Indiana Hunters anyway. I've tried to understand other state regulations as for deer hunting goes and its very confusing to me, not to mention the non-resident fees and all the other factors you figure in. I'm not gonna spend that kind of money for that unless I have a 100% money back guarantee, and let's face it you don't get that option. That's like going and buying $800 dollars worth of lottery tickets. What is the % chance of winning that money back? I guarantee you your % chances are greater losing than winning, and to me I look at non-resident fees the same way. If you put out 14 cell cams on public land, you're likely to be out more than $800 by this time next year..
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Post by greghopper on Jan 25, 2020 11:20:16 GMT -5
Yeah... that’s about $1400 on the low end! Hmmm
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Post by michaelc on Jan 25, 2020 11:20:26 GMT -5
How does another state's regulations help us Indiana Hunters anyway. I've tried to understand other state regulations as for deer hunting goes and its very confusing to me, not to mention the non-resident fees and all the other factors you figure in. I'm not gonna spend that kind of money for that unless I have a 100% money back guarantee, and let's face it you don't get that option. That's like going and buying $800 dollars worth of lottery tickets. What is the % chance of winning that money back? I guarantee you your % chances are greater losing than winning, and to me I look at non-resident fees the same way. If you put out 14 cell cams on public land, you're likely to be out more than $800 by this time next year.. You correct and it is a gamble, but hunting in general is a gamble for me. I'm going to try to put them in areas where I'm hoping nobody will venture. The HNF where I've been hunting the last 3 years has 1114.38 acres and not all of it is easily accessible even by foot. There's another part that is there and it is 14277.4 acres that I did venture off in this past year. My kidos want to have a family hiking trip, so that would be a great start.
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Post by freedomhunter on Jan 25, 2020 11:57:47 GMT -5
Matt, Do you live or hunt in Indiana or are you an Iowa resident? Hi there, I was born and raised in Indiana. Currently live about 15 minutes southeast of Columbus. I grew up in Morgan County, moved to Terre Haute in my early twenties, and moved to my current location about 5 years ago. I have only hunted Iowa twice. The first time was 2 years ago, the second was this past November. I've only hunted in Iowa about 14 days total and took the biggest buck of my life. This year I saw 130+ inchers on 4 out of 5 days. That's more than I typically see in multiple seasons on Indiana public land. Keep in mind, I was hunting the easiest-to-draw unit (zone 3). I've heard from others that the harder-to-draw units blow zone 3 out of the water. There's something special about Iowa, and I think that as more state DNR's start running out of money, a hard look at Iowa's model might be very beneficial. As I said before, even though hunter numbers as a whole are dropping, the number of very serious, out-of-state hunters is increasing. It's easy to see with the point-creep that's happening for virtually all limited tags. Iowa's model will never happen here, imo. We like our firearms seasons and xbows and rifles way too much. I'll never forget helping a friend of mine get the opportunity to purchase 200 acres of killer terf for deer hunting down around Freedom, he never made any pretenses about what he could do with qdm and our regs and even would let the property sit until muzzleloader just to get a chance at seeing a mature buck. His favorite line was "if I wanted to kill a mature deer I would go to Saskatchewan" Point is, he knew going in what hunting is like here and knew not to bang his head trying to change it and just enjoy it for what it is. The majority rules.
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Post by michaelc on Jan 25, 2020 12:05:42 GMT -5
Hi there, I was born and raised in Indiana. Currently live about 15 minutes southeast of Columbus. I grew up in Morgan County, moved to Terre Haute in my early twenties, and moved to my current location about 5 years ago. I have only hunted Iowa twice. The first time was 2 years ago, the second was this past November. I've only hunted in Iowa about 14 days total and took the biggest buck of my life. This year I saw 130+ inchers on 4 out of 5 days. That's more than I typically see in multiple seasons on Indiana public land. Keep in mind, I was hunting the easiest-to-draw unit (zone 3). I've heard from others that the harder-to-draw units blow zone 3 out of the water. There's something special about Iowa, and I think that as more state DNR's start running out of money, a hard look at Iowa's model might be very beneficial. As I said before, even though hunter numbers as a whole are dropping, the number of very serious, out-of-state hunters is increasing. It's easy to see with the point-creep that's happening for virtually all limited tags. Iowa's model will never happen here, imo. We like our firearms seasons and xbows and rifles way too much. I'll never forget helping a friend of mine get the opportunity to purchase 200 acres of killer terf for deer hunting down around Freedom, he never made any pretenses about what he could do with qdm and our regs and even would let the property sit until muzzleloader just to get a chance at seeing a mature buck. His favorite line was "if I wanted to kill a mature deer I would go to Saskatchewan" Point is, he knew going in what hunting is like here and knew not to bang his head trying to change it and just enjoy it for what it is. The majority rules. I agree with that. I just about went balled pulling my hair out. Not mention the stress I put on myself. Enjoy what we have guys and just be happy with it. It only takes 1 person to ruin it and we already have anti-gun activists wanting to take that away from us.
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Post by M4Madness on Jan 25, 2020 12:38:07 GMT -5
I've hiked a good portion of the HNF over the last year, and have never jumped a single deer. Not one, and some of those trails are 8-10 mile loops. I grew up hearing that deer hunting sucks there.
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Post by greghopper on Jan 25, 2020 12:40:35 GMT -5
The “Do as I say not as I do “ are the most Polarizing figures on either side of debate.... never doubt they are well nested within the ranks they follow.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2020 12:53:26 GMT -5
I've hiked a good portion of the HNF over the last year, and have never jumped a single deer. Not one, and some of those trails are 8-10 mile loops. I grew up hearing that deer hunting sucks there. First deer I ever killed was a 4 point buck at the Hoosier National Forest back in the early 90's, within a mile or so of the firetower. There was a ton of sign, and I heard a really huge deer running past me before it was light enough to see. I did a lot of squirrel and deer hunting there back then, and actually kicked up a ruffed grouse a couple times too. I killed several bucks there, a ton of squirrels, but haven't hunted there for years. I remember too, there were a lot of horseback riders, and also a lot of hikers and runners. I got the feeling the hikers and runners were hoping to mess up the deer hunting.
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Post by medic22 on Jan 25, 2020 12:59:01 GMT -5
I've hiked a good portion of the HNF over the last year, and have never jumped a single deer. Not one, and some of those trails are 8-10 mile loops. I grew up hearing that deer hunting sucks there. I walked into a portion of HNF (mostly blind) and saw 20 something deer in 6 sits. Never more than 200 yards from the truck.
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Post by M4Madness on Jan 25, 2020 13:06:31 GMT -5
I've hiked a good portion of the HNF over the last year, and have never jumped a single deer. Not one, and some of those trails are 8-10 mile loops. I grew up hearing that deer hunting sucks there. I walked into a portion of HNF (mostly blind) and saw 20 something deer in 6 sits. Never more than 200 yards from the truck. Perhaps it's because I stay on the move. I just find it strange that I can usually take a walk through private farms that I hunt and jump deer, yet the same doesn't happen for me in the HNF. I did a 6-mile loop in Martin State Forest and didn't see any either, nor on the entire 42-mile length of the Tecumseh Trail through Morgan-Monroe and Yellowwood. Maybe the deer have relocated in those areas due to the constant hiking pressure. Who knows?
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Post by michaelc on Jan 25, 2020 13:25:41 GMT -5
I've hiked a good portion of the HNF over the last year, and have never jumped a single deer. Not one, and some of those trails are 8-10 mile loops. I grew up hearing that deer hunting sucks there. First deer I ever killed was a 4 point buck at the Hoosier National Forest back in the early 90's, within a mile or so of the firetower. There was a ton of sign, and I heard a really huge deer running past me before it was light enough to see. I did a lot of squirrel and deer hunting there back then, and actually kicked up a ruffed grouse a couple times too. I killed several bucks there, a ton of squirrels, but haven't hunted there for years. I remember too, there were a lot of horseback riders, and also a lot of hikers and runners. I got the feeling the hikers and runners were hoping to mess up the deer hunting. I've been hunting there for 3 years and where I hunt there isn't any hiking trails. Matter of fact there are only 7 people that hunt there including the wife's uncle and I. Its not a bad place to hunt but just a lot of ground to try to cover in search of the deer.
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Post by mattfinney on Jan 25, 2020 13:55:21 GMT -5
Hi there, I was born and raised in Indiana. Currently live about 15 minutes southeast of Columbus. I grew up in Morgan County, moved to Terre Haute in my early twenties, and moved to my current location about 5 years ago. I have only hunted Iowa twice. The first time was 2 years ago, the second was this past November. I've only hunted in Iowa about 14 days total and took the biggest buck of my life. This year I saw 130+ inchers on 4 out of 5 days. That's more than I typically see in multiple seasons on Indiana public land. Keep in mind, I was hunting the easiest-to-draw unit (zone 3). I've heard from others that the harder-to-draw units blow zone 3 out of the water. There's something special about Iowa, and I think that as more state DNR's start running out of money, a hard look at Iowa's model might be very beneficial. As I said before, even though hunter numbers as a whole are dropping, the number of very serious, out-of-state hunters is increasing. It's easy to see with the point-creep that's happening for virtually all limited tags. Iowa's model will never happen here, imo. We like our firearms seasons and xbows and rifles way too much. I'll never forget helping a friend of mine get the opportunity to purchase 200 acres of killer terf for deer hunting down around Freedom, he never made any pretenses about what he could do with qdm and our regs and even would let the property sit until muzzleloader just to get a chance at seeing a mature buck. His favorite line was "if I wanted to kill a mature deer I would go to Saskatchewan" Point is, he knew going in what hunting is like here and knew not to bang his head trying to change it and just enjoy it for what it is. The majority rules. You're probably right, however, I think that states like Indiana and Wisconsin will learn the hard way that increased opportunity is not going to reverse resident hunter recruitment trends. After this sinks in, it wouldn't surprise me if they start looking at ways to be more attractive to NR's. States with high quality (and more expensive tags) like Iowa and Kansas bring in lots of money per NR, which is good for the residents because revenue goals can be met without adding too much hunting pressure, vs having cheap tags which require bringing in lots more hunters to reach the same revenue. Here's an article talking about the stable or in some cases rising NR's and while resident hunter numbers are dwindling. States are going to have to make big changes at some point if trends don't reverse. www.nrahlf.org/articles/2019/8/13/nonresident-hunter-numbers-in-many-states-on-the-rise/
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2020 13:58:26 GMT -5
First deer I ever killed was a 4 point buck at the Hoosier National Forest back in the early 90's, within a mile or so of the firetower. There was a ton of sign, and I heard a really huge deer running past me before it was light enough to see. I did a lot of squirrel and deer hunting there back then, and actually kicked up a ruffed grouse a couple times too. I killed several bucks there, a ton of squirrels, but haven't hunted there for years. I remember too, there were a lot of horseback riders, and also a lot of hikers and runners. I got the feeling the hikers and runners were hoping to mess up the deer hunting. I've been hunting there for 3 years and where I hunt there isn't any hiking trails. Matter of fact there are only 7 people that hunt there including the wife's uncle and I. Its not a bad place to hunt but just a lot of ground to try to cover in search of the deer. The firetower is a well known part of the HNF. There used to be a boy scout camp nearby, dunno if it's still there. When I hunted there, there a LOT of different groups using it, but the deer hunting was still pretty good. There is an old family cemetery back there, several small ponds, many thickets, and of course, hardwood ridges full of Oaks everywhere. The gray squirrel hunting was fantastic, and you could camp almost anywhere you were willing to hike into.
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Post by js2397 on Jan 25, 2020 19:17:52 GMT -5
About a year ago, the Pennsylvania Game Commission decided to move the opening day of deer season for firearms to Saturday in hopes of encouraging more hunters to participate.
“While not everyone was in favor of moving the opening day of deer season to Saturday, most commissioners felt that after talking to the hunters in their districts, there generally was more support than opposition, and the change would enable more hunters , especially youth and young adults, to hunt on opening day,” said Board of Game Commissioners President Tim Layton.
“Now this idea seems to be backed up by increased license sales, which is extremely encouraging because, quite frankly, there hasn’t been a lot of positive news to report on that front in recent years.
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Post by span870 on Jan 26, 2020 8:37:49 GMT -5
LOL!!! 8 pages of arguing to adopt another states regs just to kill corn goats. Let's be honest here and decipher what is truly being said. Every comment about wanting Iowa regs or Illinois isn't about having a balanced or healthy or whatever term you want to use, it's about trophy deer. B&C or P&Y class deer. If dnr came out with a study that says age class and herd health and balance were exactly where it needs to be, this argument wouldn't end. Unless there is a book buck behind every tree, some ain't going to be happy.
Lack of land to hunt = I want private land that I can control who hunts on it and make sure no one kills MY deer
No deer = I didn't see 20 deer per sit this year.
You boys keep thinking there aren't numerous "trophy" deer on public land and it takes an athlete to hunt said public land and all public land is completely over run with hunters. Us that hunt it will just keep laughing and keep our spots to ourselves. Wish I had a dollar for every time I've heard, "need more hunters out to move these deer around". Probably wouldn't have to go to work Monday.
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Post by Russ Koon on Jan 27, 2020 2:52:03 GMT -5
Hey Matt, glad to see you on here again.
I got curious after reading a bit of this discussion and looked up Iowa's population density and Indiana's, and found that we have a 60% higher population density than Iowa.
Then I got curious about how our corn and bean production compared to Iowa's. Turns out they have close to three times the corn production and about twice the bean production.
I expect our production per acre runs pretty close to theirs, so the production figures I found would indicate that Iowa has at least twice the acreage in the deer's favorite food sources available for those deer, and about a third fewer people out there shooting at them.
I don't see it as an apples-to-apples comparison with the only real difference being management techniques. More like a tug of war between my neighbor's super-duty dually against the wife's CRV to determine the relative value of her AWD system to a real 4X4 with a low range!
There may well be some changes that would be beneficial, but I think setting our sights on the Iowa model with the expectation of getting anywhere near the same results here is highly unrealistic. Now if we could offer them hree times as much corn and twice as many acres of beans and and reduce hunter numbers by forty percent, maybe....
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Post by mattfinney on Jan 27, 2020 22:54:52 GMT -5
Hey Matt, glad to see you on here again. Hey Russ, hope you are doing well.I got curious after reading a bit of this discussion and looked up Iowa's population density and Indiana's, and found that we have a 60% higher population density than Iowa. Then I got curious about how our corn and bean production compared to Iowa's. Turns out they have close to three times the corn production and about twice the bean production. I expect our production per acre runs pretty close to theirs, so the production figures I found would indicate that Iowa has at least twice the acreage in the deer's favorite food sources available for those deer, and about a third fewer people out there shooting at them. Well, I guess I would have to argue that there's a lot more to good deer habitat than corn and beans. Indiana has 2 million more acres of forest, yet still 65% of the state is in farmland. That's a lot more security cover with still tons of food, and Indiana's deer population remains way under biological carrying capacity. Also, Indiana gets substantially more rain than Iowa each year. I'm of the opinion that Indiana is in the very epicenter of the best deer habitat.
As far as there being a third fewer people shooting at them, well again we have 2 million more acres of forest, and also allow only one buck per hunter, while Iowa has numerous buck tags and allows party hunting. While still not a direct comparison, I would say these factors bring it closer to apples to apples than you accounted for.
I don't see it as an apples-to-apples comparison with the only real difference being management techniques. More like a tug of war between my neighbor's super-duty dually against the wife's CRV to determine the relative value of her AWD system to a real 4X4 with a low range! There may well be some changes that would be beneficial, but I think setting our sights on the Iowa model with the expectation of getting anywhere near the same results here is highly unrealistic. Not so much setting my sites, just pointing out that even as hunter numbers are dropping nationwide, the number of very dedicated hunters willing to travel out of state seems to be on the rise. link When resident hunter numbers drop low enough, state natural resource agencies will need a new revenue stream, and it only makes sense to target non-residents. The best way to get the most money out of NR is to attract them with the highest quality hunting experience possible. As far as I can tell, best way to achieve higher quality is to get the guns out of November, get the crossbows out of archery, and get the hpr's out of the guns, while keeping an OBR. Keep in mind, I don't expect Indiana or Wisconsin to do any of this, as I don't expect government to get much of anything right, but I do think it would be wise and in their best interests.
Now if we could offer them hree times as much corn and twice as many acres of beans and and reduce hunter numbers by forty percent, maybe.... Indiana has all the corn and beans a deer could ever need, and even though Iowa has fewer hunters, again, Indiana has almost twice as much forest land as Iowa, and I contest that security cover is just as vital to a deer as food. One other thing, if you've never hunted Iowa, I highly recommend trying it. I just about guarantee you'll have the best deer hunting experience of you life, I know I have.
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Post by greghopper on Jan 28, 2020 5:15:11 GMT -5
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