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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 5, 2016 7:07:25 GMT -5
Saw this in Facebook. This is an Indiana buck taken on a nuisance deer permit. There was quite a discussion on there and I wanted to see what you all think on it. I'll give my opinion later..  |
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Post by featherduster on Aug 5, 2016 7:25:40 GMT -5
Just another dead deer IMO, if it was necessary to remove this animal then so be it however if there was a way his life could have been spared till regular season it would made some hunters very happy to have a crack at him.
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Post by freedomhunter on Aug 5, 2016 7:30:23 GMT -5
There is an obvious need to remove some deer from areas as fast and efficiently as possible. You can't keep the rack.
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Post by johnc911 on Aug 5, 2016 7:40:56 GMT -5
What facebook page Woody ?
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 5, 2016 7:45:56 GMT -5
Team Indiana John...
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Post by esshup on Aug 5, 2016 8:22:08 GMT -5
I was under the impression that to help control deer population you managed the females..... Personally? I would have let it walk and shot a doe instead.
Freedomhunter, it's been a few years since I've done a depredation hunt. Do the Indiana depredation permits now have disposal stipulations associated with them?
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Post by jjas on Aug 5, 2016 8:35:23 GMT -5
It's been my understanding for years that (like deer) raccoons and squirrels cause plenty of crop damage.
In years past, small game hunters helped keep the squirrel and raccoon population(s) in check and deer hunters could keep the deer population managed.
Unfortunately, it seems hunters don't hunt small game in the numbers we used to as many of us seem to concentrate on deer hunting only. And within the deer hunting community many of us primarily concentrate on bucks.
So while I'm not a fan of the depredation program (as I think it's wasteful and killing does this time of year tends to doom the fawns) who am I to tell a landowner how to manage his property?
But...perhaps we have an opportunity for hunters here. Go to the landowners and tell them that you would like to hunt squirrels and raccoons after the deer season(s) end and thin the numbers. It could be a good way to keep the crop damage down a bit and perhaps earn your way onto a good property and help that landowner manage the deer population as well.
Just a thought....
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Post by urbanguy on Aug 5, 2016 8:49:59 GMT -5
Okay, If I am a landowner and I pay my taxes it's my land and I reserve the right to do what I want on it within the lines of the laws. Where I am right now in my itch to hunt and I saw that deer I would want to shoot as well. I reserve the right to the nuisance tag but was that deer really a nuisance on his property or a nuisance on his mind and in his sleep thinking about holding the horns. If he can't keep the rack, it makes me question if this was truly a problem for him.
Who am I to judge when I admit I would have a hard time not wanting to take a great deer early as well. I just don't see the purpose of it if you cant keep the rack or possibly the meat? A doe would have been fine then.
In the instance that this guy killed that deer just for the picture, wait until opening day. It keeps the excitement building and will make for a better tale to explain the long dreadful wait the deer that made him lose sleep.
I understand both ways but it stinks that deer will not live on in a wall mount for future stories and examples of good conservation and patience for a worthy prize. |
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 5, 2016 9:06:21 GMT -5
My two cents worth...
Way too many nuisance deer permit holders/shooters are not in it to control the number of deer but just want to target big easy velvet bucks. I've watched deer for close to 50 years and IMO 999 times out of a 1,000 the big bucks are the last deer to enter a bean field. There are plenty of does that can be shot way before the big buck makes his entrance, IF population control is the true objective
The "hero photos" on easy to kill nuisance deer? To me, it just shows one big ignorant ego..
I'll bet that the turning over of the bucks antlers doesn't happen all that often. I know of a few that were confiscated after the shooter took the heads to a taxidermist and wanted to get them mounted. But that happened after someone turned them in.
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Post by jimstc on Aug 5, 2016 12:42:19 GMT -5
I have two fields of soybeans. The other afternoon I saw a pair of fawn ears in the field. Beans were taller than he/she was. I also see young does in the fields normally with a pair of "shorties" with her. I actually enjoy seeing them. Never have seen a buck. That being said, I have thought about a depredation permit and decided against it for several reasons. First, the damage is minimal as best as I can tell. Second, I have a day job and crop income is secondary. Third, a partial reason for the crops is to attract and hold deer on my place. (talk about hypocrisy, LOL) Lastly, I couldn't shoot a deer out of season for the three reasons mentioned above. Nor can I criticize a person who is a full time farmer for protecting his livelihood. I get that real clearly. I talk to guys who have had upwards of ten does in their fields. That will cause some damage. I read somewhere that of 10%+ of crops are lost to deer statewide. Actually higher in some areas. Nonetheless there are abuses of the program. It is an imperfect system but it is still needed.
Just my thinking, the meat should go to food pantries for the poor and the head, if a buck goes, to DNR.
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Post by boonechaser on Aug 5, 2016 12:52:38 GMT -5
I venture to say as well that majority of bucks killed by depredation permits arn't turned in and destroyed as they are supposed to be.
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Post by featherduster on Aug 5, 2016 13:12:34 GMT -5
Just a thought: if a biologist determines that there is a valid need for depredation permits why not work with the land owners to allow a handicapped hunter or a youth hunter harvest these animals, just a thought.
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Post by steiny on Aug 5, 2016 15:01:30 GMT -5
Those permits should not be available to start with.
If the deer are doing so much damage (which I do not believe to be true in most cases), then let some folks hunt your place and they can knock down the numbers during the regular hunting seasons, or do it yourself. If you don't want hunting on your land, fence your crops with deer proof fences. Farmers with orchards in northern Michigan routinely fence their fields.
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Post by scrobertson on Aug 5, 2016 15:22:57 GMT -5
Coons, squirrels and whistle pigs...
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Post by firstwd on Aug 5, 2016 15:53:49 GMT -5
I understand the argument that the permits shouldn't be allowed, but sometimes the deer simply aren't on some of those particular properties during deer season.
For example, a farmer has a couple thousand acres of tillable land, but no woods. A neighboring landowner or three has a couple thousand wooded acres, but do not allow hunting. How is the farmer letting people hunt going to do anything to the deer population?
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Post by jimstc on Aug 5, 2016 16:19:01 GMT -5
Those permits should not be available to start with. If the deer are doing so much damage (which I do not believe to be true in most cases), then let some folks hunt your place and they can knock down the numbers during the regular hunting seasons, or do it yourself. If you don't want hunting on your land, fence your crops with deer proof fences. Farmers with orchards in northern Michigan routinely fence their fields. Deer proof fences? With bean and corn prices at their current levels and farm land falling 8% in value for two years? Not even close to economically feasible. Farmers are losing 10% to 30% of their crop to deer. That is fact, not speculation. Farming income has fallen dramatically in the last three years. Again, fact not opinion...... |
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Post by beermaker on Aug 5, 2016 16:32:49 GMT -5
I have heard first-hand from a farmer's wife (after more than a few drinks) how he and his neighboring farmers shoot deer at will and let them lay. I don't think it really matters what hunters think.
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Post by wesb81219 on Aug 5, 2016 16:49:41 GMT -5
There's no perfect solution to the problem. Do I believe this particular deer was taken more out of want than need , yes I do. For starters if you can't keep any part of it what's the point of taking such a great deer for a hunter who would appreciate it much more. Just to say you got it? I think there should be an early season in which farmers can enter their property to be put in a pool in which hunters approved by the dnr can enter for a draw hunt at a discounted rate for the license. Allow x amount of hunters per x amount of acres. Each draw could be for 2 days per hunter and decide how many days for the entire month of July or August. If the hunter scores a trophy give them the option to keep the head and donate all meat to food banks for needy families. It's a win for everyone, we get to hunt early, the farmers crops are protected , needy families get some food and the state gets some extra cash to put back into wildlife management. I'm pretty sure there wouldn't be any shortage of hunters signing up for such a program.
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Post by freedomhunter on Aug 5, 2016 16:53:28 GMT -5
I was under the impression that to help control deer population you managed the females..... Personally? I would have let it walk and shot a doe instead. Freedomhunter, it's been a few years since I've done a depredation hunt. Do the Indiana depredation permits now have disposal stipulations associated with them? A friend of mine took a nice 8 point last year that was destroying a tree farm in an urban area. He did it as a favor to the owner. All he got was pictures. You absolutely cannot keep the rack. |
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 5, 2016 17:02:34 GMT -5
I was under the impression that to help control deer population you managed the females..... Personally? I would have let it walk and shot a doe instead. Freedomhunter, it's been a few years since I've done a depredation hunt. Do the Indiana depredation permits now have disposal stipulations associated with them? A friend of mine took a nice 8 point last year that was destroying a tree farm in an urban area. He did it as a favor to the owner. All he got was pictures. You absolutely cannot keep the rack. Not legally...but it is done... |
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