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Post by harryman on Nov 11, 2015 15:04:52 GMT -5
Yesterday one of the youths that hunts my property asked if his dad could hunt opening morning as well. I said sure as this youth (14) has hunted before even has taken a deer and Turkey this year already with my help. He's a good kid and he is very much into the outdoors during September goose season he took charge setting out the decoys every morning and even telling the older youths be patience wait till they are close. He has learned calling and can out call alot of adults.
Now here is the problem when I said yes his father could hunt they showed up this morning to put up another stand. I have never met the man he is divorced from his wife and lives in northern part of state.I shook his hand told him how his son is polite respectful and on his way to being a great man. I said feel free to use four wheeler if need to haul out deer his son knows where keys are.
I asked him if he already had his license if he had a firearm tag he could shoot a buck but if he had not got a license yet only to buy a doe tag since I only allow two bucks a year to be taken on farm which two youths have already done.
He replied since he was hunting my farm he wasn't wasting a tag or money. I said you have to get a license to hunt my land or I can't allow you to hunt.He than said I will use one of my sons tags. This really got me going so I preceded to ( disgust) the problem after sending his son to the barn to feed my wife's horses.
The Talk didn't go well he got cocky than tried to man up.I don't like to fight but, I'm 6'2 270 worked hard on farms and machine shops also construction. I'm not backing down from anyone he took a swing and I dropped him fast. I wrestled middle school-college.
After he got up still mouthy he left with his son.I got a call later from the son defending his dad saying using his tag is the same deer is getting tagged. I replied if you think that is morally and ethical hunting I can't let you hunt my land even without your father. When you figure out the wrong come see me and we will talk but until then don't ask to fish hunt again on farm. Also you father is never hunting on my land.
Did I go to far? Should I still let the youth hunt? So disappointed in the boy after teaching him so much the boy knows hunting is more than shooting animals he even stopped at 3 geese in September one day because he said he didn't need more meat and we need to let them have a break.
Just trying to come to terms with everything. Is the boy going to be the great honest man I hope he will become?
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Post by parrothead on Nov 11, 2015 15:09:12 GMT -5
Good for you for standing your ground and doing the right thing. I think the dad sounds like a POS!
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Post by kevin1 on Nov 11, 2015 15:25:56 GMT -5
He swung first, not your fault. The advice you gave both was spot on, and the right thing to do.
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Post by chubwub on Nov 11, 2015 15:27:41 GMT -5
Uhhhh, if the only requirement for me to hunt a property like yours AND get to use your 4-wheeler is that you want me to show you my license, then I think I'm going to be showing you my license. Stupid to lose an spot like that over 24$.
Ain't gonna lie though, I would have taken all 5 geese in early season and they would have been in the crockpot the next day. YUM! After that first shot, they already been educated, might as well keep as many as legally possibly from flying away and spreading the word, lol.
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Post by hornzilla on Nov 11, 2015 15:31:03 GMT -5
Your not in the wrong. Forget it and move on.
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Post by Genesis 27:3 on Nov 11, 2015 15:41:32 GMT -5
I'm all for education. And it sounds like you educated both of them today. I hope the young man figures out his mistakes and you rekindle your relationship. As for the father, well, I wouldn't lose any sleep
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Post by sakorifle on Nov 11, 2015 16:08:38 GMT -5
Greetings
Well it is unfortunate it came to blows, over here i would of lost my right to firearms, BUT.
You did right that is your farm, its your goodwill, and it is your right to apply any rules you see fit.
He was in the wrong, period.
It is unfortunate the young lad took it like he did but it was always going to happen wasn,t it, he was always going to say his dad was right.
And you are being more than fair even thinking of letting the young lad back on your property, i do hope you make him apologise for his phone call first if he ever does come back.
In answer to you question did i go too far. i give you a resounding NO YOU DID NOT.
You gave him a lesson in manners.
Regards
Billy
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Post by scrobertson on Nov 11, 2015 16:12:39 GMT -5
Might move your 4 wheeler keys to a different spot just to be on the safe side
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Post by trapperdave on Nov 11, 2015 16:14:45 GMT -5
You went exactly as far as you needed. KUDOS!
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Post by harryman on Nov 11, 2015 16:16:43 GMT -5
The worst part is the father makes a really nice living. So money isn't a issue and sadly I even offered to pay for his tag in case he may have some unknown financial problems which is very unlikely since he has a new truck and owns two business.
I'm glad the youth stood up for his dad but failed to see the right thing was not to deffend his actions.
I try to teach the youths that sometimes to do what is ethical or moral you gotta disagree with actions or idea's of others even the ones you call family or friends.
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Post by harryman on Nov 11, 2015 16:31:47 GMT -5
Might move your 4 wheeler keys to a different spot just to be on the safe side I trust the youth he a good kid just clouded judgement. His mother is a great friend to my wife. I already talked to her and said not to force her son to apologize he needs to figure this out himself. She did also thank me for dropping her ex to the ground. All the youths that hunts my farms have full access to gates barn etc after the first year. Alot work on the farms or helps when I need. |
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Post by chubwub on Nov 11, 2015 16:41:45 GMT -5
It's hard to say what was going on in the kid's head. At the end of the day, he is the one who has to go home with his dad and deal with him. I am not sure how much you know about his personal life and his relationship with his dad behind the scenes, but sometimes it is hard to take a stance of righteousness against your parents, especially when they still control your entire life. That is a tremendous burden to put on someone who is so young.
Sometimes children lie for their parents or defend their parents because they know if the parents end up in jail, that means their lives will be destroyed as well, despite the fact that the kid did nothing wrong. They are wholly dependent on their parents for survival. Perhaps this kid was afraid that publicly shaming his dad was improper, maybe he was scared to death that the dad would beat the crap out of him when they got home, maybe he was afraid that taking your side would ruin his relationship with him, maybe he has been taught that you defend and love your parents no matter what... honestly, you will never really know until you are able to sit the kid down privately and have a heart to heart and ask him why he did what he did.
When I was young we had an incident with a woman who claimed one of our horses hurt her during a clinic and was suing my parents for money. I didn't care who was right and wrong. All I remember caring about was how scared I was that my mom and dad might lose the farm if they didn't win, which meant that I would have to say goodbye to my best friend at the time, my horse, because my parents wouldn't be able to afford them anymore. Thankfully, the woman was a complete fraud but to be honest, I probably would have defended my parents even if they were in the wrong, even though I had nothing to do with it because I personally had so much to lose if they had to pay up. It messed with my head for a few months.
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Post by raymar on Nov 11, 2015 16:44:31 GMT -5
Right or wrong initially, children will always defend their parents for the most part. In time it sounds that this young man just needs a good role model. In turn I think you probably did more than the right thing. Who knows why he refused a license but it is your place and decision. The youth in time probably will realize the wrong in the above situation and just keep being a positive role model. From your post it obviously shows you are for many youth.
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Post by sakorifle on Nov 11, 2015 16:49:14 GMT -5
Well said chubwub the youth probably felt he did not have an option other than to defend dad, and like you i can understand and relate to that.
Give the youth time to think and see what happens, but if he comes back he must apologize for his wrong thoughts
that is my thinking.
regards
Billy
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Post by onebentarrow on Nov 11, 2015 16:59:29 GMT -5
I am not defending the boy but it was his father and most kids will defend them even if they are in the wrong.
I do not think you did any thing out of order.
What I might suggest is in the future, say 4 weeks or so, if the child has not called and when you are settled down and not mad about the position you were put in is to call the child and see if he is willing to go out for coffie and discuss the situation with you. That way he understands where you are comming from and maybe can understand why the ethics on ALL aspects of hunting are important. Not just the ones that suit his needs. Sounds like you have dune well with him and he is learning just what it is to be man.
If he is a good kid he should see what was wrong with the situation and be able to learn from it. If he is not willing to see the wrong in that situation you have dune all that you can do and more than most would have dune and should not be bothered to walk away. But you might want to let him know that even tho you do not see eye to eye you are not enimies and are willing to talk and discuss different things with him at other times.
He is in a tough spot now also. Not of your doing but still the same. He may come around in the future and if he does you can be proud of him and and know that you put a young man on the right path to being a man.
I also think in any situation where rules/ethics have been broken/violated there needs to be some kind of conciquences. Maby extra work, loss of privalages for a time, some thing. He needs to understand this also. He needs to know it is not from what his father did but because of HIS actions and violation of YOUR standards.
These are just my opinions, I hope they help you some. Good luck to you and the young man,
Onebentarrow
Ps if you would like to discuss my opinions further please feel free to pm me.
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Post by harryman on Nov 11, 2015 17:05:31 GMT -5
It's hard to say what was going on in the kid's head. At the end of the day, he is the one who has to go home with his dad and deal with him. I am not sure how much you know about his personal life and his relationship with his dad behind the scenes, but sometimes it is hard to take a stance of righteousness against your parents, especially when they still control your entire life. That is a tremendous burden to put on someone who is so young. Sometimes children lie for their parents or defend their parents because they know if the parents end up in jail, that means their lives will be destroyed as well, despite the fact that the kid did nothing wrong. They are wholly dependent on their parents for survival. Perhaps this kid was afraid that publicly shaming his dad was improper, maybe he was scared to death that the dad would beat the crap out of him when they got home, maybe he was afraid that taking your side would ruin his relationship with him, maybe he has been taught that you defend and love your parents no matter what... honestly, you will never really know until you are able to sit the kid down privately and have a heart to heart and ask him why he did what he did. When I was young we had an incident with a woman who claimed one of our horses hurt her during a clinic and was suing my parents for money. I didn't care who was right and wrong. All I remember caring about was how scared I was that my mom and dad might lose the farm if they didn't win, which meant that I would have to say goodbye to my best friend at the time, my horse, because my parents wouldn't be able to afford them anymore. Thankfully, the woman was a complete fraud but to be honest, I probably would have defended my parents even if they were in the wrong, even though I had nothing to do with it because I personally had so much to lose if they had to pay up. It messed with my head for a few months. Well the father lives hrs away he takes his son fishing in Canada every summer for a month. Plus once a month he takes him for a weekend somewhere hunting or fishing. The mother never says anything bad about her ex in front of son and she gets along with him. although she said he was unfaithful in his marriage. He is divorced twice no other kids. Some of it maybe wanting to spend more time with his dad but who knows. His mother's boyfriend treats him like a son even bought him a old Chevelle to restore for his first car when he gets old enough. They work on cars together alot and fish alot. The boyfriend doesn't hunt at all seems to be the only flaw he has. |
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Post by firstwd on Nov 11, 2015 17:11:40 GMT -5
If the youth did not witness the altercation, he might not have a clear picture of everything.
I am not often surprised anymore, but I must say I by this guts actions. What type of man, father, hunter takes a swing at the landowner who is willing to let them use their property?
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Post by greghopper on Nov 11, 2015 17:24:16 GMT -5
If the youth did not witness the altercation, he might not have a clear picture of everything. I am not often surprised anymore, but I must say I by this guts actions. What type of man, father, hunter takes a swing at the landowner who is willing to let them use their property? I can answer that.... They type of person you don't allow on YOUR land you OWN!!!! Just when think you heard it all there's always a new one...SMH |
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Post by Woody Williams on Nov 11, 2015 18:18:41 GMT -5
You absolutely did the right thing. Glad the kid wasn't there to witness it, but I'm sure his dad gave him HIS side of the story.
You set the management rules on your land and if folks don't agree with it - tough, get on down the road. No way should anyone allow any game law breakers on their land.
The dad just messed his and the kid's nest. Hopefully the kid will realize what he had and will get his moral compass straight.
You did good.
Thanks
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Post by firstwd on Nov 11, 2015 18:25:33 GMT -5
Harryman, I teach Hunter Ed. Usually 3 sometimes more classes a year and I am in my 14th year of doing so. Would you mind if I use this story in my class? I am always looking for real world experiences to keep th3 class interesting and fresh for me. Obviously I don't know names so that shouldn't cause an issue. I just wanted to ask permission to use it.
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