|
Post by drs on Nov 19, 2014 5:32:44 GMT -5
If I could just add one fact, that might be unrelated to this particular topic: Crossbows vs Compound & longbows; since crossbows make it far easier to bag a Deer might it be wise to adjust the length of Archery Season on Deer?? I've never have fired a crossbow, only used a longbow then later a Browning Compound bow in my Deer hunting before I injured a nerve in my back, in 1987.
I can see the use of crossbows for hunting, and believe that they will deliver quick kills and less lost Deer, but if we're able to place scopes on these weapons, then maybe the Archery season should be shorten a bit to prevent over harvesting in many areas, just like firearm season.
|
|
|
Post by swilk on Nov 19, 2014 6:32:51 GMT -5
Hhmm....it seems you cant add the word ban-ana without it changing into a dancing . We now have apples and oranges instead. No dancing oranges. Impressive.... I know id get dizzy as can be if I continued to spin like that. Some folks are able to withstand it though.....I prefer simple honesty. The weapon did get its own tag....I figure since you're already in the spinning mood may as well keep ya going......Go.
|
|
|
Post by drs on Nov 19, 2014 7:07:44 GMT -5
It's quite unfortunate that some members here resort to childish behavior. The OP of this thread introduced a interesting topic for us to discuss, in an adult manner. Just too bad someone comes along and spoils it with their moronic comments.
|
|
|
Post by swilk on Nov 19, 2014 7:11:16 GMT -5
I agree. All I did was post a personal observation and I was attacked by the king spinner for it. Although calling someone's comments moronic could be considered an attack as well.....might want to be careful.
|
|
|
Post by dbd870 on Nov 19, 2014 7:15:55 GMT -5
I don't want to move this to Post Revue, please consider whether or not any post anyone makes contains a personal attack.
|
|
|
Post by Woody Williams on Nov 19, 2014 8:05:03 GMT -5
Yes, crossbow threads can get contentious...this is mild, with some good posts...
dbd870 and swilk,
Saying that a "personal observation" is "anedocotal evidence" is in absolutely no way an "attack". It is a statement of fact. We can not honestly say that the whole of anything is doing something that we see on such a limited observation. As I stated in one post data from multiple states says that crossbows do catch on but they in no way replace the vertical bows. They in fact introduce more folks to archery hunting thus increasing the numbers of archery hunters - horizontal and vertical.
Yep,
Lets keep it above board...
|
|
|
Post by swilk on Nov 19, 2014 8:07:38 GMT -5
Woody ... I didnt take it as an attack. It was a tongue in cheek response to the post above it.
Youll never hear me complain of another member "attacking" me .... Im a big boy and wade into the pool willingly.
Although we can have a discussion of exactly what a "fact" is ... seems there might be some confusion on your part if you were insinuating my observations were not a fact. I can assure you I relayed what I have observed with absolute certainty and accuracy.... which makes my observations fact.
|
|
|
Post by Woody Williams on Nov 19, 2014 8:09:09 GMT -5
Took a deer this year in early season with a crossbow for the first time. I have had a crossbow for years as I inherited it from my father but have never used it in early season as I don't like to carry it. So I bought a sling for it and that issue is much better. My observation from actually shooting a deer with one is as follows. It is not the same as bow hunting. I happy with the deer but I never experienced the same high as with the bow both n the anticipation of the shot as well as after. For me it was like gun hunting. You have a light gathering scope which is a great advantage as well as you hold and simply pull the trigger when the time comes. It is a very efficient tool. The deer only went 30 to 40 yds. Pass though shot quick kill. Quiet compared to a gun as I could have taken another one that stood there. I will still bow hunt as I did more of it than with the Crossbow in the early season. I will probably use it again depending on the conditions. I'm not going to debate whether we should or should not have them in early archery season as that is beating a dead horse. However from my experience, it's not archery and one does not have to have the skill that a successful archer has to have. One still has to put themselves in the right situation to take an animal but completing the task is much easier than with a bow. Archery is quite popular right now because of the movie Hunger Games. There is hope that may help bow hunting as well as hunting. Without that interest I believe people would just simply go the easiest way. Knowing that you were once a vocal opponent, I'm glad that you got out and gave it a try. We disagree on what is and what isn't archery and that is OK. Having used a crossbow for the last 13 years I do know first hand that there are trade offs when hunting with one. Enjoy your time afield no matter what hunting tool that you choose to use..
|
|
|
Post by Woody Williams on Nov 19, 2014 8:14:48 GMT -5
Woody ... I didnt take it as an attack. It was a tongue in cheek response to the post above it. Youll never hear me complain of another member "attacking" me .... Im a big boy and wade into the pool willingly. Although we can have a discussion of exactly what a "fact" is ... seems there might be some confusion on your part if you were insinuating my observations were not a fact. I can assure you I relayed what I have observed with absolute certainty and accuracy.... which makes my observations fact. I never said what you saw was not a fact. In the realm of which way the hunters are moving - compound to crossbow that fact that you saw is anecdotal evidence in the big picture. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence
|
|
|
Post by swilk on Nov 19, 2014 8:26:48 GMT -5
And I never said the numbers you cited were not fact just that they had very little relevance in our state. Apples to oranges.
In fact I think personal observations from the last couple of years, in our state, are much more valuable than data from a different state and a different time. If Ohio had anything in common with Indiana, other than the fact that deer are hunted, then it might be relevant. But its not.
So ... lets start again.
I know several able bodied, fairly young men, who have switched to crossbows. I doubt compounds become as rare as traditional archery but there is no doubt many, many hunters will be choosing crossbows instead of compounds in the future.
|
|
|
Post by boonechaser on Nov 19, 2014 8:32:17 GMT -5
As long as I can shoot a bow I will always have one in my arsenal. I am not against crossbow's and could see hunting with one in the future. I am also not sure that a crossbow belongs in archery season though?? All boil's down to how much of a challenge do you want when you hunt. The hardest (traditional archery) or the easiest (high powered weapon) then their's all weapon's in between.
|
|
|
Post by swilk on Nov 19, 2014 8:37:09 GMT -5
I dont see myself giving up my bow anytime soon either. Injury or a very specific scenario would be the only way I can see at this time.
|
|
|
Post by shouldernuke on Nov 19, 2014 8:44:58 GMT -5
The funny thing is if your numbers actually transfer to our hunters my original post is confirmed.....many able bodied hunters will give up the compound for crossbows. Better than half.....according to the very apples you cited. Uh, not really.. Crossbows bring more people into ALL archery hunting. The state of Ohio has 350,000 archery hunters as compared to Indiana’s less than 100,000. That is 78.4% of the Ohio hunters using archery equipment during the deer hunting season. The national average is only 28% of a given state's hunters using archery equipment. Does the use of crossbows have a negative impact on hunters taking up compound bows to hunt with? No, not really. 36% of the Ohio deer hunters use vertical bows. That is 8% HIGHER than the national average. In Ohio they get hunters started with crossbows, they go to vertical and then come back to crossbows as they age. That is great hunter recruitment and hunter retention. The Ohio hunting archers (longbow, compound and crossbow) account for 30% of the total Ohio deer harvest. In Indiana’s the hunting archers account for 20% of the Indiana deer harvest. The difference? Crossbows… FYI at the last breakdown Bow hunters in IN was at 78,000 give take a few hundred .Bow hunting lost popularity after the OBR it never gained back as gun hunting could still net that one buck ...LOL Just random DNR info I have read on . And the point is if it brings back or in "more " hunters thats ok too I have both and remember the hay day of states deer hunting like you and many others and the loss of over 100,000 total all types deer hunters since the Early 90s at its peak with Bow hunters taking the biggers percentage hit is not a good trend and why many of the problems we now have stemmed from . Maybe one day it will be 100,000 archery hunters plus some because the xbow again and maybe it will not ..But arguing here what we have and the fact that even in OH 60% that is more than half enjoy the xbow was more than enough evidence of large sweeping change in hunting and swayed our DNR to include xbow and thats ok as well.. JMHO much ado about nothing even if bow sales decline and xbow sales and use take over hunters will still be in the woods and its still archery at its finest in evolution .. Ma
|
|
|
Post by dbd870 on Nov 19, 2014 8:56:27 GMT -5
Wasn't accusing Woody or anyone in particular, the tone of the thread was beginning to head in that direction; just didn't want to see it get bad.
|
|
|
Post by Woody Williams on Nov 19, 2014 8:57:41 GMT -5
And I never said the numbers you cited were not fact just that they had very little relevance in our state. Apples to oranges. In fact I think personal observations from the last couple of years, in our state, are much more valuable than data from a different state and a different time. If Ohio had anything in common with Indiana, other than the fact that deer are hunted, then it might be relevant. But its not.
So ... lets start again. I know several able bodied, fairly young men, who have switched to crossbows. I doubt compounds become as rare as traditional archery but there is no doubt many, many hunters will be choosing crossbows instead of compounds in the future. No offense but I've heard that very same argument over and over again and it doesn't pan out. Countless anti-crossbowers have said that data from other states has no bearing on their state as "Our state is different". After a couple years of complete crossbow legalization in such states as Georgia, Tennessee, Mississippi, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Virginia, and partial inclusion in a multitude of others it was readily apparent that NO, their state is not any different in crossbow recruiting, retention and game management than the data brought forth in previous states.. I'm sure that the DNR will do another hunter survey before long and we can put this puppy to bed once and for all..
|
|
|
Post by greghopper on Nov 19, 2014 8:59:21 GMT -5
Talk about a SPIN..... So folks stop bow hunting because they couldnt shoot 2 bucks? LMAO......
|
|
|
Post by Woody Williams on Nov 19, 2014 9:03:55 GMT -5
Wasn't accusing Woody or anyone in particular, the tone of the thread was beginning to head in that direction; just didn't want to see it get bad. That is good.... There are flash point subjects for sure... Nipping in the bud is best on some of them..
|
|
|
Post by shouldernuke on Nov 19, 2014 9:06:12 GMT -5
Talk about a SPIN..... So folks stop bow hunting because they couldnt shoot 2 bucks? LMAO...... That is the truth and a fact of the loss of total deer hunter in 2001 the first year of OBR give another reason as too why since the DNR already broke it down as to why .FYI the tag price doubled that year as well setting up the perfect storm.The DNR sent out a study/ press release on it after that .Sorry no spin at all just a fact of deer hunting life in our state .
|
|
|
Post by swilk on Nov 19, 2014 9:08:34 GMT -5
No offense taken Woody. Your opinion that it does not pan out is of little consequence to my opinion that it is irrelevant.
We have entirely different ways of analyzing and interpreting data .... that has been obvious in more threads than this one. Some people look at data with a preconceived notion of what they want it to say and therefore that is what they always find.
I look at Ohio and see 40 years of history in a sport that has evolved greatly over that period of time. I see a state with more archery and crossbow hunters than Indiana has total hunters. I see many differences and few similarities with Indiana. I see very little that will coincide with Indiana over the next 20 years when the sport of archery and crossbow hunting will continue to undergo great changes as will the sport of hunting in general. I see apples and oranges.
You see numbers that can somehow be interpreted to support your position.
|
|
|
Post by dbd870 on Nov 19, 2014 9:10:24 GMT -5
Wasn't accusing Woody or anyone in particular, the tone of the thread was beginning to head in that direction; just didn't want to see it get bad. That is good.... There are flash point subjects for sure... Nipping in the bud is best on some of them.. Yeah, crossbows seem to be one of those topics, as does the OBR.
|
|