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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2014 16:14:23 GMT -5
I wonder what deer would think if they found out how many of us grown men stalk them, sneak photos of their pregnant women and their kids and then sit around and argue about whose is whose and wonder who the "baby daddy" is?!? Good lord, we are like the Jerry Springer studio audience sometimes!
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Post by martyy on Jul 31, 2014 13:27:31 GMT -5
A picture that Marty sent me. I'll let him fill in the details.... . Thanks to Woody for helping post this picture, This picture was taken on my trail cam in Tippecanoe County where I hunt as you can see on the date stamp of the time and date that it is very late for fawn of that age which looks to be maybe 2-3 weeks old and I would not have believed it possible until I seen it so as for OP I believe it is possible.
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Post by windingwinds on Jul 31, 2014 14:58:12 GMT -5
Wow didn't realize how hotly debated this would get. Not my intention. I will add some pictures in a minute. I average 100 doe pictures a week. I have to work this weekend so I went and pulled it early, traditionally I like to pull on either Sunday or Monday, once a week. My camera is setup just off a major bedding area that leads into another bedding area, total area of at least 15 acres back there. So if fawns don't go too far, it could be weeks before I get a picture of any younger fawns. And even if I do get smaller fawn pictures, it could be argued my first doe was never pregnant. But since I don't have fences or tracking devices I am never going to be able to "prove it". For that matter it can be hard to specifically identify between does. Just because I don't agree with someone doesn't mean I don't value opinions or respect other people. And I am also not easily offended. (I may play devils advocate for the fun of it). I think we can agree deer don't read books and they do evolve behaviors as time goes. Different regions are going to have differences also. I would recommend against using the words "always" and "never" with animals or children, they will prove you wrong. Regardless, I love this time of year.
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Post by windingwinds on Jul 31, 2014 15:03:21 GMT -5
[a href=" "]link[/a]
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Post by windingwinds on Jul 31, 2014 15:07:12 GMT -5
[a href=" "]link[/a]
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Post by windingwinds on Jul 31, 2014 15:10:51 GMT -5
My kindle is only allowing me to post one picture at a time today. As to what the does think of camera?? I doubt they mind much, as long as the cracked corn keeps appearing lol.[a href=" "]link[/a]
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 15:23:31 GMT -5
I would recommend against using the words "always" and "never" with animals or children, they will prove you wrong. Ding ding ding...End of debate, right there! Slow clap....
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Post by boonechaser on Jul 31, 2014 21:27:18 GMT -5
LOl, the majority of people , who think they know thing's, actually know very little. This applies to a lot of the people on this site. (Mother nature could care less.) I saw a buck rubbing antler's on my board fence last night right behind my house, not 30 yard's away. My first thought. REALLY End of July??, but yes it happened. Am I surprised a doe had a fawn in mid to late July??? (Nope.) I am more surprised that people are trying to prove that it can't happen . (YEP)
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Post by Woody Williams on Jul 31, 2014 21:35:48 GMT -5
The only absolute when it comes to deer and deer hunting IS - there are NO absolutes.
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Post by drs on Aug 1, 2014 5:13:23 GMT -5
LOl, the majority of people , who think they know thing's, actually know very little. This applies to a lot of the people on this site. (Mother nature could care less.) I saw a buck rubbing antler's on my board fence last night right behind my house, not 30 yard's away. My first thought. REALLY End of July??, but yes it happened. Am I surprised a doe had a fawn in mid to late July??? (Nope.) I am more surprised that people are trying to prove that it can't happen . (YEP) You might want to re-think your post there, "boonechaster". True, there might be a lot of folks, here on this site, that have limited knowledge of Deer Biology or even the study of Biology in general. However, it's very unfair to "lump" them together with those who actually have a knowledge of what is being discussed on this thread/subject.
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Post by GS1 on Aug 1, 2014 8:18:47 GMT -5
LOl, the majority of people , who think they know thing's, actually know very little. This applies to a lot of the people on this site. (Mother nature could care less.) I saw a buck rubbing antler's on my board fence last night right behind my house, not 30 yard's away. My first thought. REALLY End of July??, but yes it happened. Am I surprised a doe had a fawn in mid to late July??? (Nope.) I am more surprised that people are trying to prove that it can't happen . (YEP) Very true on any subject with any group of people. If I've never seen it it's never happened.
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Post by steve46511 on Aug 1, 2014 10:58:52 GMT -5
I can point a finger at myself quite easily within the discussion of "knowing what we know".......till we find out it none of it is a constant when involving mother nature and ANY species of animal. Pointing a finger in this direction I would hope I don't honk anyone off but I feel learning about everything in life is great part OF life and great part about hunting. Personally speaking, I stop learning when I stop paying attention to other results that are different than "what I know to be accurate". Regardless of what subject matter is within a discussion, sooner or later things will come up that are "contrary" to what has been considered a given fact for generations. MUCH of what we "know" is something we read and the results are only as believable as one trusts the source, but no one, regardless of education or even years studying anything is exempt from discovering something they have believed to be ALWAYS true.......is not and few things are ALWAYS true considering a living, breathing, WILD animal's actions or habits. Even what we see with our own eyes does not create any kind of set rule that such is what always is the case. It's hard for us to wrap our heads around such. Myself included. I've watched deer break so many "rules" that the one thing I know about whitetail is I have no clue what THAT animal will do but can surmise though SEVERAL observations what it does MORE OFTEN than some other options. Every single article written by any "expert" (if they are or not is up for grabs) almost always will included that their findings are based around the majority of the animals studied, yet never ALL of the animals. On any wild animals breeding habits, health, age, availability of a mate, hunting pressure, habitat, weather, POPULATION, etc can be combined or increased or decreased to give "results" that are different (there is a safe word, LOL) than what is normal, which unfortunately, (IMO) too many have decreed is not "normal" but instead, some kind of unyielding "fact". "Mother Nature" is a fickle foe to try to put "rules" around anything in her realm when it comes to what breeds when. "Late" fawns not making it through winter is hardly a new subject so I WOULD assume such has happened for decades. Others, of course, will have other opinions and opinions, being ONLY that, are not often something I will debate. Each has "facts" to back up such or they wouldn't HAVE that opinion. Quite feasibly, neither is true and one can be rest assure neither is ALWAYS true. What each of us has personally SEEN is a very, very, VERY small cross section of even the deer in OUR area, and multiple times smaller of a cross section comparing such to whitetail in their entire range even within one single state. Similarly, and more to MY interest is what whitetail DO, aka "studying my quarry". Anyone with even a mediocre exposure to any animal in the wild has seen examples of actions contrary to what was expected of them and a shot didn't happen due to such or a shot DID happen because of that same "unusual" action. I get a chuckle out of tv shows and articles discussing the actions of whitetail and "what they will do". The SINGLE ......CONSTANT fact about whitetail that I know from multiple decades of hunting and watching them is this....... They will do what they want at that moment in time and I see no evidence that they have a "plan" of any kind.
I've watched particular bucks that I had singled out walk towards me on a HEAVY trail 100 yards behind a group of does and for no reason, obvious to ME, stop and start feeding and turn and walk across a wide open bean field or something equally "not what I expected", EVEN AFTER watching THAT buck previously. Each animal is it's own being. Has it's own personality, likes, dislikes, experience with humans and heck, experiences with ANYTHING. Not all dogs bark before they bite. Similarly, all deer do NOT react or do the same thing as another......all the time and won't even repeat the same thing THEY do with highly predictable results. Other opinions are equally important and have equal chances of being correct.......... Sometime or another, such will happen, even in opposing opinions. The only RULE I have any more is to keep an open mind. I do not, and never will "know it all. But.........I would like to. I cannot learn if I "already know". God Bless and...............as always NO TOES were intentionally stepped on here. If you don't like my posts, do not read them. I will not be offended....not once, not ever.
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Post by boonechaser on Aug 1, 2014 13:30:07 GMT -5
Very well said STEVEN.
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 1, 2014 16:24:44 GMT -5
LOl, the majority of people , who think they know thing's, actually know very little. This applies to a lot of the people on this site. (Mother nature could care less.) I saw a buck rubbing antler's on my board fence last night right behind my house, not 30 yard's away. My first thought. REALLY End of July??, but yes it happened. Am I surprised a doe had a fawn in mid to late July??? (Nope.) I am more surprised that people are trying to prove that it can't happen . (YEP) You might want to re-think your post there, "boonechaster". True, there might be a lot of folks, here on this site, that have limited knowledge of Deer Biology or even the study of Biology in general. However, it's very unfair to "lump" them together with those who actually have a knowledge of what is being discussed on this thread/subject. C'mon David.. There you go again... Even folks that have a "biology degree" can sometimes be wrong when predicting an unpredictable animal such as a deer. Agreed? I did not see any "lumping" going on in boonechaser's post. Quite the contrary. If you think you are one up on a "lot of the folks" on here you could quite possibly be mistaken. Now...get back to subject at hand...
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Post by boonechaser on Aug 1, 2014 18:22:21 GMT -5
200 normal carrying time for whitetail. So when would a doe give birth if she was bred Dec 1st too Jan 15th. ?? Mid June to Late July. So where is the argument??? Would seem to me, to be fairly common. Add in a abnormal extended birth, say maybe 205 or 210 days. Pretty basic math equation to me.
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 1, 2014 18:25:02 GMT -5
200 normal carrying time for whitetail. So when would a doe give birth if she was bred Dec 1st too Jan 15th. ?? Mid June to Late July. So where is the argument??? Would seem to me, to be fairly common. Add in a abnormal extended birth, say maybe 205 or 210 days. Pretty basic math equation to me. True.. They can come at any time.. I know numerous married couples that had babies in six months.. Again... Martyy's LATE fawn picture says that it can happen. Does it happen often? Probably not, but it can..
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 1, 2014 18:28:33 GMT -5
BTW - Notice anything strange about the doe?
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Post by trapperdave on Aug 1, 2014 18:31:32 GMT -5
looks like the drummer from def leppard?
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Post by steve46511 on Aug 1, 2014 20:04:34 GMT -5
BTW - Notice anything strange about the doe? Zoom.........right over my head. I never took a second (or even a first) look at that doe and rather doubt I would have noticed it either without you pointing that out. God Bless
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Post by boonechaser on Aug 1, 2014 20:15:44 GMT -5
EEMMM maybe the fact it's look's like she lost a leg???
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