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Post by windingwinds on Jul 18, 2014 23:05:35 GMT -5
[/URL]"]link[/a] I'm a little rusty, but hopefully the picture posts. Shouldn't be too long that I post updated pictures with a fawn or two.
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Post by windingwinds on Jul 18, 2014 23:09:59 GMT -5
[a href=" "]link[/a]
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Post by drs on Jul 19, 2014 4:53:15 GMT -5
Your Doe certainly appears to be pregnant, but I can't help thinking it's a bit too late for "dropping" Fawns. Normally they have them in late May or by mid June; but I guess it's possible for a Doe to give birth a little later, but mostly further South. As for her size, might be just fat accumulation, her genetic make-up, or worse case a uterine fibroid tumor could be growing inside her. Additional data: but this mainly refers to Humans but could possibly be applied to Deer or other animals: www.jcl.com/medical-services/uterine-fibroid-treatment/uterine-fibroid-tumors
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Post by trapperdave on Jul 19, 2014 5:21:19 GMT -5
It's not too late. It's also not unusual for last year's fawns to cycle late in the breeding season with their first cycle.
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Post by drs on Jul 19, 2014 5:25:15 GMT -5
It's not too late. It's also not unusual for last year's fawns to cycle late in the breeding season with their first cycle. That's possible, but rare.
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Post by trapperdave on Jul 19, 2014 6:43:54 GMT -5
It's not too late. It's also not unusual for last year's fawns to cycle late in the breeding season with their first cycle. That's possible, but rare. in a healthy herd about 50% of doe fawns are bred....... in late december/ january scilowcountry.org/oldsite/doe_fawn_breeding_rates.htm
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Post by drs on Jul 19, 2014 7:22:39 GMT -5
That breeding rate, in December - January, happens mostly in the Southern States.
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Post by trapperdave on Jul 19, 2014 7:42:21 GMT -5
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Post by steve46511 on Jul 19, 2014 7:53:47 GMT -5
That breeding rate, in December - January, happens mostly in the Southern States. That has always been an conundrum for me thinking about it. While SOME southern states this is true, however others, while slightly north but still a "southern state" it is not. South Carolina for one, yet Alabama it's reported as WAY late. "What is the peak deer "rut" in South Carolina? Generally, the last two weeks of October through the first two weeks of November, although breeding activity may be seen at almost any time of the fall and winter. Map of Peak Breeding Dates for White-tailed Deer in South Carolina. For more information, contact Deer Project, PO Box 167, Columbia, SC 29202 or call (803) 734-3886." www.dnr.sc.gov/wildlife/deer/faqsdeer.html#12"Research has documented average conception dates in Alabama occurring around Thanksgiving, mid-December, early January, and even into early February. For most of Alabama, the peak of breeding season, or the rut, occurs around mid- to late January." outdooralabama.com/watchable-wildlife/Mammals/Ungulates/wtd.cfmInteresting stuff to me and one has to wonder how often slight changes, even a couple weeks, occur in states where we feel are the same as others. Even biologists have the capability to be incorrect. God Bless
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Post by drs on Jul 19, 2014 8:01:01 GMT -5
Dave, I find those links interesting. <Thanks> I agree with the quote, given on one of the links.
"In the North, natural selection has minimized poorly timed births. Those fawns born too early likely die from exposure. Those fawns born too late seldom achieve favorable physical size and fatness necessary to survive the hardships of winter.
In the Midwest, late-born fawns are more often the result of ideal conditions and breeding among doe fawns. In the rich farmland, where deer living at fairly low density and enjoy excellent nutrition year round, a high percent of 1 year old does will produce their first offspring. Since these precocious females tend to breed about a month or so later than adult does, their fawns usually are born in July or August.
Interestingly, fawns late-born to 1 year old mothers tend to be somewhat larger than normal at birth, as are those born to late fawning adults. Given excellent nutrition, as is characteristic of the Midwest farmland, these late-born individuals have a good chance of growing to respectable size prior to winter, and surviving to be large and productive adults.
Late-born fawns are more prevalent in southern states, where unbred adult does might re-cycle and come into estrus as often as 7 times during one season."
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Post by Woody Williams on Jul 19, 2014 8:09:06 GMT -5
She looks very pregnant to me. She is not last year's fawn though. She is a mature doe.
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Post by drs on Jul 19, 2014 8:45:24 GMT -5
She looks very pregnant to me. She is not last year's fawn though. She is a mature doe. YEP! She is a mature Doe. Guess we'll all see if she gives birth to a fawn or two in the coming days. Just find that a mature Doe, that wasn't bred early last years fall, a bit strange. Makes me wonder if a health issue is at hand.
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Post by jjas on Jul 19, 2014 11:03:40 GMT -5
She looks very pregnant to me. She is not last year's fawn though. She is a mature doe. YEP! She is a mature Doe. Guess we'll all see if she gives birth to a fawn or two in the coming days. Just find that a mature Doe, that wasn't bred early last years fall, a bit strange. Makes me wonder if a health issue is at hand. It might be that, or it might be as simple as a buck/doe ratio that is horribly skewed.
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Post by windingwinds on Jul 19, 2014 14:16:42 GMT -5
Here is my take based on what I have seen with these later does. Number one our local area gets a TON of pressure during gun season I think that this doe might have bred during November or December but was stopped by survival. (Maybe with no second gun season she will breed earlier this year?) So she waited. (The late breeding may have been influenced even more when we were hit with EHD two years ago also, health may have been a issue then). For whatever reason, we regularly see spotted fawns during October at least. This doesn't bother me, we don't shoot them. They do generally survive. Habitat survives here well into January. They tend to look pretty fat until then. If mom gets shot they join up with the local does. This of course only based on the past four or five years of watching them not any biologist' s input. I don't believe we are too skewed this year buck doe ratios, or last year for that matter. Plan on checking game camera the beginning of next week.
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Post by drs on Jul 20, 2014 4:27:30 GMT -5
Here is my take based on what I have seen with these later does. Number one our local area gets a TON of pressure during gun season I think that this doe might have bred during November or December but was stopped by survival. (Maybe with no second gun season she will breed earlier this year?) So she waited. (The late breeding may have been influenced even more when we were hit with EHD two years ago also, health may have been a issue then). For whatever reason, we regularly see spotted fawns during October at least. This doesn't bother me, we don't shoot them. They do generally survive. Habitat survives here well into January. They tend to look pretty fat until then. If mom gets shot they join up with the local does. This of course only based on the past four or five years of watching them not any biologist' s input. I don't believe we are too skewed this year buck doe ratios, or last year for that matter. Plan on checking game camera the beginning of next week. Let us know what your camera shows in the coming days.
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Post by shouldernuke on Jul 20, 2014 8:41:22 GMT -5
YEP! She is a mature Doe. Guess we'll all see if she gives birth to a fawn or two in the coming days. Just find that a mature Doe, that wasn't bred early last years fall, a bit strange. Makes me wonder if a health issue is at hand. It might be that, or it might be as simple as a buck/doe ratio that is horribly skewed. You can not be serious about a seriously skewed herd .The buck to doe ratio in any area is about 1/2 just by birth rates .so having a herd that skewed would have to be a experiment in an enclosure .But seriously I know of not a single state in the Midwest that the Buck to Doe ratio pre hunting season is not at least 1-2 or most 3 of bucks of some age class vs total doe of all age classes . Remember that the sex average of all doe births are almost 50% male and 50% female .And in the Midwest right at 70-75 % of all doe get bred and give birth to at least one fawn .So the sex ratio that you speak of is impossible in any wild herd .
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Post by jjas on Jul 20, 2014 8:50:16 GMT -5
It might be that, or it might be as simple as a buck/doe ratio that is horribly skewed. You can not be serious about a seriously skewed herd .The buck to doe ratio in any area is about 1/2 just by birth rates .so having a herd that skewed would have to be a experiment in an enclosure .But seriously I know of not a single state in the Midwest that the Buck to Doe ratio pre hunting season is not at least 1-2 or most 3 of bucks of some age class vs total doe of all age classes . Remember that the sex average of all doe births are almost 50% male and 50% female .And in the Midwest right at 70-75 % of all doe get bred and give birth to at least one fawn .So the sex ratio that you speak of is impossible in any wild herd . Perhaps you're correct, but I'd love to see data that supports your position.
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Post by esshup on Jul 21, 2014 6:42:31 GMT -5
2 years ago I watched a doe being chased in a field near the house by 3 bucks. Timing? Late January. Northern Indiana. I just thought it was a late fawn from the previous year coming into estrous.
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Post by windingwinds on Jul 21, 2014 14:55:16 GMT -5
[a href=" "]link[/a] Still holding on as of yesterday.
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Post by featherduster on Jul 21, 2014 15:15:02 GMT -5
Maybe she's just a fat girl.
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