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Post by squirrelhunter on Jan 4, 2013 21:03:28 GMT -5
Just curious what your thoughts are.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jan 4, 2013 21:33:01 GMT -5
I'm against it. Why does the government need to know what and how many guns I have?
Of course they probably already do know... Even if they aren't supposed to.
Case in point.. It took them just a day and a half to trace down the AR 15 that the nut used to kill the firemen. They nailed the dumb butt nieghbor that made the straw purchase..
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Post by swilk on Jan 4, 2013 21:39:41 GMT -5
They already know about any paper purchase.....they want to know about any person to person transaction.
IMO they already know more than they need to know.
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Post by Sasquatch on Jan 4, 2013 22:05:24 GMT -5
They already know about any paper purchase..... they want to know about any person to person transaction. IMO they already know more than they need to know. Bingo. The "gun show loophole " hubbub, for instance, is less about gun shows and more about recording every single purchase.
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Post by shinglemonkey on Jan 4, 2013 23:50:44 GMT -5
They already know about any paper purchase.....they want to know about any person to person transaction. IMO they already know more than they need to know. Not really. They would have to go through the 4473's of every gun shop and the NiCS check is suppose to purge the info every 30 days.
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Post by shinglemonkey on Jan 4, 2013 23:52:38 GMT -5
Canada tried the whole registration thing and failed miserably. I dont see the US being any different other than we probably have 100 times more guns.
I accept that my NFA stuff is registered, I will not accept my class 1 guns as being registered.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2013 8:11:17 GMT -5
Any gun bought on a 4473 can be traced in a matter of a few days. If you have sold the gun or its been stolen, you'll need some proof to get off the hotseat if the gun was used in a crime. What will be passed soon by the Senate is known as the gun show loophole. Which is the sale of a gun by a nondealer. Being a dealer, I could get by uf this is passed into law. Id rather have it then have restrictions on types of firearms
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Post by joen on Jan 5, 2013 10:13:30 GMT -5
gun registration is the first step in gun control.
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Post by 3ptbuck on Jan 5, 2013 10:24:08 GMT -5
Nope. If it did happen I plan to sell- really sell, not just say it- the couple that can be traced. My collection from then on will not have a paper trail of any kind.
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Post by shinglemonkey on Jan 5, 2013 10:43:48 GMT -5
Any gun bought on a 4473 can be traced in a matter of a few days. If you have sold the gun or its been stolen, you'll need some proof to get off the hotseat if the gun was used in a crime. What will be passed soon by the Senate is known as the gun show loophole. Which is the sale of a gun by a nondealer. Being a dealer, I could get by uf this is passed into law. Id rather have it then have restrictions on types of firearms How do you figure. All the ATF can trace of a guns serial number is who was the original distributor, from there they can find out who was the original dealer and the first person who bought it. If its sold to another gun dealer or private person the trail gets pretty cold. Gun dealers do not report what guns they sell other than in their book which are not sent in to the atf. Their is not a huge data base for guns sold and who bought them. Its not as simple as you make it out to be.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2013 10:48:46 GMT -5
You already have registration. Been here since 1968. Don't know when Indiana put in the carry permit, but that is registration.
As for having untraceable guns, think about what your going to hunt with if the turn in law comes about. If it becomes law that you can't own certain things, and you do, then you've made yourself in violation, and will soon be a felon. say they just ban 30 rd. clips and say you also can't own. You going to eliminate your right to possess a leegal firearm because of 20 rs in a magizine???
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2013 10:53:26 GMT -5
Any gun bought on a 4473 can be traced in a matter of a few days. If you have sold the gun or its been stolen, you'll need some proof to get off the hotseat if the gun was used in a crime. What will be passed soon by the Senate is known as the gun show loophole. Which is the sale of a gun by a nondealer. Being a dealer, I could get by uf this is passed into law. Id rather have it then have restrictions on types of firearms How do you figure. All the ATF can trace of a guns serial number is who was the original distributor, from there they can find out who was the original dealer and the first person who bought it. If its sold to another gun dealer or private person the trail gets pretty cold. Gun dealers do not report what guns they sell other than in their book which are not sent in to the atf. Their is not a huge data base for guns sold and who bought them. Its not as simple as you make it out to be. One of the guns I sold a few years ago to a known friend, ended up being involved in a crime in Oregan state. The ATF called me about the gun, asking who I sold it to originally. The gun was a 10/22 rifle. It had changed hands 4 times since it was first sold. I was the only FFL dealer involved in the sale. When an ATF agents asks you about a gun, and you no longer have it, they also want to know why you don't. You need to have a legit answer.
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Post by shinglemonkey on Jan 5, 2013 12:10:55 GMT -5
You already have registration. Been here since 1968. Don't know when Indiana put in the carry permit, but that is registration. As for having untraceable guns, think about what your going to hunt with if the turn in law comes about. If it becomes law that you can't own certain things, and you do, then you've made yourself in violation, and will soon be a felon. say they just ban 30 rd. clips and say you also can't own. You going to eliminate your right to possess a leegal firearm because of 20 rs in a magizine??? Registration of guns? No Indiana does not have that. They did in the past but it went away soon after. handgun permit, yes we have that. But your SS card was your first thing that registered you to the US. If theres a confiscation of guns taking place, hunting deer will be the least of our worries.
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Post by shinglemonkey on Jan 5, 2013 12:13:29 GMT -5
How do you figure. All the ATF can trace of a guns serial number is who was the original distributor, from there they can find out who was the original dealer and the first person who bought it. If its sold to another gun dealer or private person the trail gets pretty cold. Gun dealers do not report what guns they sell other than in their book which are not sent in to the atf. Their is not a huge data base for guns sold and who bought them. Its not as simple as you make it out to be. One of the guns I sold a few years ago to a known friend, ended up being involved in a crime in Oregan state. The ATF called me about the gun, asking who I sold it to originally. The gun was a 10/22 rifle. It had changed hands 4 times since it was first sold. I was the only FFL dealer involved in the sale. When an ATF agents asks you about a gun, and you no longer have it, they also want to know why you don't. You need to have a legit answer. You dont need to have anything. They can huff and puff all they want as long as you follow the laws you can blow them kisses while shutting the door. You were the original buyer, thats the end of the paper work that they had. Anything you gave them after that is either you being nice or ignorance of the laws. Heres how it works. ATF agent: We found a gun that you purchases at the scene of a crime 2k miles way. Me: OK AG: did you sell this gun? Me: Yes AG: do you know who you sold it to or have a record? Me: Nope, I know that guy was an Indiana resident and had no indications that he was prohibited from owing the weapon. AG: We need more info. Me: Im sorry, I dont have any more.....have a good day.
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Post by mrfixit on Jan 6, 2013 7:09:05 GMT -5
...... Being a dealer, I could get by uf this is passed into law. Id rather have it then have restrictions on types of firearms I bet you would! Nothing personal as I'm sure many more dealers are salivating at the thought of $50 to $100 or more to place a phone calls for us peons to transfer a hunting utensil to a cousin or brother. The federal government has no business being involved in a intrastate business deal. Period, end of story. Now if I'm going to sell the firearm across state lines it becomes a interstate transaction and the government has some legal Constitutional foothold to regulate that sale. OH wait, they already do! If the government could have found a way around the Constitution to regulate intrastate commerce you would have been making those phone calls long, long ago.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2013 11:30:38 GMT -5
Show me a dealer who charges $100 for a transfer. Most charge a fourth of that or less. It takes time away from the dealer, that's why they charge. Same as most people in America, they get paid for their time, probably the same as you do.
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Post by mrfixit on Jan 6, 2013 11:40:00 GMT -5
I'd say you would be hard pressed, at least in my neck of the woods, to find one that's less than $50. Most around here are between $50-$80. If it was compulsory it will only go up. Last week the local dealer spent over 50 minutes on the phone doing the NICS check on my last purchase on a firearm from his shop. If he has to do that for every single yahoo walking through the door with a buddy in tow how much do you reckon he would charge? What's an hour of your time worth? Are you still going to do it for $25, the quarter of the amount I stated earlier?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2013 11:43:23 GMT -5
So, you want him to do it for free? on a gun that he didn't sell, or made any profit on it? Once all the FFL holders are gone, guess who gets to do it then?
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Post by mrfixit on Jan 6, 2013 11:44:58 GMT -5
No, most dealers are for the NICS checks. Puts them in the middle of every single transaction with no limit on what they can charge.
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Post by swilk on Jan 6, 2013 11:50:45 GMT -5
My local guy charges $15.....since Newtown the NICS check has been a nightmare. In normal times it is a 5 minute call.
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