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Post by steve46511 on Nov 29, 2012 3:15:50 GMT -5
I think you'll find new interest in yanking that handle.
Wildcats are a BLAST and my only regret is that I didnt do something like this a couple decades ago but then again, for deer here in IN anyway, I had no real reason to give it a try.
I gotta say that deleveloping my own round had my head wrapped around data for several months this year before I pulled the trigger on the project and has been one of the most fun endeavors I've been involved in short of hunting itself.
Love it? OH MY~! and Im nowhere close to being "done" testing.
Two 120-130 lb does hit the dirt tonight with 200 grain Hornady Spire point bullets with entrance holes at or close to quarter size. Pass throughs on both. My first "field test" with that bullet.
One (double lung, angled) took off full tilt getting lower by the leap till it nose dived in the field in about 50 yards. Second, broadside double lung/ top of heart crashed on her belly at the shot. Not even a kick.
6 down so far with the 350JR between me and my buddy Jim for 2012, no misses, no poor hits, no losses and the most constant thing I can say right now is that through the brush or longer ranges........the 35 calibers are DEER HAMMERS!
Wont be able to go this weekend. Working all three days 12 hour shifts but I picked up a one man chair blind, some orange panels and gonna get some HEAT (hey.......IM OLD, sue me) for the late season bonus antlerless season that Ill be off work for all but 2 days.
I've got a spot in mind to set up for LONG shots and I have a homebrewed portable gun rest set to go!
THIS IS A BLAST!
God Bless! Steve
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Post by Rifleman on Nov 29, 2012 5:41:26 GMT -5
Congrats Steve, I know that the 35's do hammer deer with authority. Sounds like we have more in common then out interest in wildcats for Indiana deer hunting. I have to work 3 12's this weekend as well. Such fun!
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Post by schoolmaster on Nov 30, 2012 6:26:56 GMT -5
Rifleman, since you are concerned with the amount of recoil, run some figures on a ballistics program. Mine shows a 200 grain bullet at 2640 generates LESS recoil than a 180 at 2800. Also check out the trajectory and energy levels. I considered going to the 1.8 BFG but the gain in performance did not justify the expense. By the way, I don't know what level of accuracy you are looking for but of the three rifles my sonsand I have, two will shoot 1 inch 5 shot groups at 200 yards and one will shoot 2 inch groups at 200 yards. These rifles are Savage weather warriors with sporter contour McGowen barrels on them, and bedded tupperware factory stocks. There are no other modifications. I got my brass, dies, and barrels from Brian at BFG. One stop shopping.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2012 7:16:36 GMT -5
Im now the owner of a slightly used Hoosier, A.J Special built on a Savage Axis with a 21" tube.
Sort of looking for someone to trade out components or some other deal in exchange for making and loading 200 rounds or so? Pm if you want to trade out or for money.
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Post by Rifleman on Nov 30, 2012 7:51:39 GMT -5
Schoolmaster- That is great accuracy and yes you are right I do need to run some numbers on a program. But besides recoil, I would also look at trajectory, out to 300 I would assume a 180 @ 2800 would be a little flatter then a 200 @ 2640. But also, I really don't think I am going to go with the 358 BFG. Allthough it is tempting since Brian is close to me and I could get what I needed quite easily. I really want to do a Rem 700 SA. I am thinking about a Rem 700 laminated stock, short action, Stainless. Shilen or some other high quality barrel, Timney trigger. Glassed and pillared of course. 20-22 in tube. 358 Hoosier, run a 180 @ 2650. Probably put a Zeiss Conquest 3.5-10x 44 on it with a Warne steel picatinny rail and Warne rings. I would love to find a Rem SA in stainless without the J-Lock and a Factory Lam stock, but that's pretty rare. Something like this in a short action, maybe shorter barrel: Timex- I am not real clear on what you are proposing, can you explain?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2012 8:18:01 GMT -5
Basicly looking for a loader. Trade components or money for 200 loaded rounds.
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Post by Rifleman on Nov 30, 2012 10:43:59 GMT -5
Perhaps if you posted something on the swap forum you would find some takers.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2012 12:11:30 GMT -5
I'll probably just buy the big money dies. Anyone want to rent a set or share ghe cost on them.
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Post by 45shooter on Nov 30, 2012 12:56:41 GMT -5
Timex, PM sent
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Post by schoolmaster on Nov 30, 2012 17:13:16 GMT -5
Rifleman pretty good looking rifle. Now the difference in BC makes up a little difference in the drop at 300. The 180 Barnes is .295 while the 200 Barnes is .369 They are very close in real world application. However the 200 hits with a lot more authority than the 180 at 300. The cat you are complating should do very well with a 180 gr. bullet. We all know its where you hit them that counts. Did I mention I really like that rifle.
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Post by Rifleman on Dec 1, 2012 14:20:12 GMT -5
Thanks School Master, I had a 30-06 just like it once, and hated getting rid of it. I know that 200 has more authority, but at both ends as well. I am sure that a premium bullet like the Barnes 180 will kill them stone dead at 300 if the shot is on the money.Still looking this thing over, some question whether the 358 Hoosier will get the Barnes 180 up to 2650 fps in a 22in barrel. I need to check this out and try to verify some things.
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Post by esshup on Dec 1, 2012 23:42:28 GMT -5
Rifleman, aside from punching paper for bragging rights, would a Savage action be minute of deer out to your shooting limit or to the terminal ballistic limit of the bullet? I like the availability of changing my own barrel on the Savage, which for me isn't an option on a different action.
I'm running into a quandry myself. Not indiana legal for deer by any means, but my long range rifle. I want to keep running rounds thru the tube to fine tune the accuracy, but at a 1,200 maybe 1,500 round count barrel life, at what time do I consider the groups to be small enough? Testing the other day showed 2 bullet holes making a figure 8, the 3rd roughly 3/4" higher than the center of the top figure 8 bullet. At 300 yds. Do I continue playing to get less than 1/4 moa out of it, or call it good? It'll drop below 1,000 fpe at 1600 yds with either the 175g or 200g bullet. I can run them faster, but the accuracy degrades.
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Post by Rifleman on Dec 2, 2012 7:59:41 GMT -5
Scott- Of course a Savage action would be fine, I mean we got the 10MLII's to shoot with factory barrels minute of deer to 300, why not a centerfire? Actually we have alot of savage centerfires at the boys ranch in Florida that I sponsor the shooting program at. We shoot the cheap ammo, Rem core lokt, WW powr-point , S&B, whatever we can get a deal on, and for the most part all these rifles will shoot right at moa and I have not tweaked them a bit. I have no doubt that you could fool around with one and get it to hammer. My buddy has a 22-50 Savage varmint that will do 3/8ths.
As far as your screamer is concerned, one group example is not much to go on. Are you telling me that the rifle consistently stacks bullets vertically but the group is still 1/4 moa? I will say this before hearing your reply, any shooter/rifle/ammo combo that is meant as a field rifle and not a bench gun that will shoot 1/4 moa is very rare, regardless of what internet commandos typically espouse. However if it does string vertically of course the first ?? is what is the SD of the load? I would also state this, that it is very hard for any shooter to hold perfect elevation from the bench without mechanical assistance. Personally if I had a super mag like yours that shot 1/4 moa, I would say " thats good enough for government work" and move on.
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Post by esshup on Dec 2, 2012 8:38:04 GMT -5
I think the vertical group was more luck than anything because at 300 Yds, in a 5-10 mph wind, there will be some left to right due to the wind, no matter how fast the bullet is moving. Lowest bullet hole was 3392 fps, next higher one was 3405 and the highest one was 3449 fps. 175g 7mm SMK
Another group that didn't have as much vertical dispersion only had 16 fps difference between 5 shots.
Another thing, with only a 22 power scope at 300 yds, pinpoint aiming isn't as good as it would be if I were to be shooting 100 YDs. with the same scope.
I've been doing some load development work (varying the powder charge, leaving them 0.010" off the lands) and that group isn't the first 1/4 moa group at that distance as long as I keep the powder charge between 109 and 109.5g and keep an eye on the wind.
First cold bore shot is about 5/8 MOA different than the subsequent shots. I will try to figure out why (cold, dirty bore) If I can't get it puzzled out, then it'll be zero'd where it shoots cold.
Shooting off a bench, bipod and rear bag. All of those were the first full house powder load in fireformed cases. 50 more cases to run thru, and then all 200 will have been fired once. Annealing after every firing.
In talking with some BR shooters, the vertical dispersion might drop if I were to turn necks.
I'll send you an e-mail about a M1A that I recently restocked.
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Post by Rifleman on Dec 2, 2012 12:14:04 GMT -5
First cold bore shot is about 5/8 MOA different than the subsequent shots. I will try to figure out why (cold, dirty bore) If I can't get it puzzled out, then it'll be zero'd where it shoots cold
If I recall, that barrel is not all that heavy of a contour is it?
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Post by esshup on Dec 2, 2012 19:37:30 GMT -5
No, I wanted the bare rifle to tip the scales at under 10# with the 28" tube. It's a Lilja SS, fluted 1-9, 4 groove, #6 contour
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Post by Rifleman on Dec 3, 2012 16:45:06 GMT -5
I don't know if you will ever get away from that with that light of a barrel contour in a magnum Scott. That dude gets quite a thermal shock on the first round and I would say that is just part of it.
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Post by Rifleman on Dec 3, 2012 18:47:54 GMT -5
Sooo in the meantime while Esshup and me are crunching numbers back and forth via email as he helps me with his Quick Load program, I decided it was time to start working out the details on the rifle and scope combo. So far here is what I came up with, but would like some input especially where I have ?? marks and need to fill in some blanks. Really interested to hear what you guys think.
THE RIFLE
REMINGTON 700 LSS – STAINLESS, .243 SHORT ACTION, BLACK LAMINATE STOCK WITH R3 RECOIL PAD- MODEL # 6336
CUSTOM STAINLESS BARREL 358 BARREL: WHAT BRAND ?
LENGTH: 20 OR 22 INCH
RATE OF TWIST: 1-14 ?
CONTOUR: ?
HAVE ACTION BLUEPRINTED
REPLACE THE X-MARK PRO TRIGGER? WITH WHAT?
GET RID OF THE J LOCK- HOW?
GLASS BED AND FREE FLOAT BARREL
SCOPE BASE: FARRELL OR WARNE ONE PIECE PICATINNY RAIL, WHICH ONE?
SCOPE RINGS: WARNE STEEL, MATTE BLACK
GLASS: ZEISS CONQUEST 3.5-10 X 44 WITH # 20 RETICLE, MATTE BLACK
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Post by hornharvester on Dec 3, 2012 21:08:56 GMT -5
My suggestion is to build a Rem/Pac .45 and it will do everything the .358 will plus you can use it in all of Indiana's gun seasons. A 195 Barnes going 2700 fps will hammer any deer you shoot.
This is the reason I sold my Sav 16, .358 BFG, smokeless muzzle loading is hard to beat! h.h.
PS, Besides, a guy who uses Rifleman as his handle only needs one shot! LOL
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Post by schoolmaster on Dec 4, 2012 0:54:46 GMT -5
Rifleman, how much does the final weight of the rifle influence your build?
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