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Post by racktracker on Dec 25, 2011 22:23:03 GMT -5
BBT, I'm interested in a link to your study, can you post it? Doesn't seem feesable that the only deer you have giving birth are fawns? Hard to believe really. Pretty common for yearling does to give birth to twin, normal size and normal growing fawns every year. Fawns do often give birth late by one month, normally to a single fawn, that has the capability to grow to normal size and weight with time as any other deer, giving the same nutrition, which you saw is not lacking. Hate to say it, because it's a bad word for you, but that's basic QDM info. I'd like to see that too. Just because the mother is young does not change the genetics involved which is THE major part of how large the animal, deer or human, gets. I don't know about QDM, but that is very basic biology.
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Post by wileyonetoo on Dec 25, 2011 22:49:38 GMT -5
Our sightings in general are way down this year. On one place we have a couple of new "neighbor" dogs that have impacted that place significantly. One's a young lab and the other is a little older lab mix. They are currently running the trails all over this little parcel, which we know is not helping. On the other place, we're not sure what has happened. Frustrating year and three burned tags for me.
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Post by esshup on Dec 26, 2011 0:45:31 GMT -5
We're going to be hitting the 'yotes hard after the first of the year. A QDMA seminar I went to said that 'yotes killed 80% of the fawns within the first 4 hrs of birth in an area that they were studying.
There'll be 3 of us hunting, 1 with a shotgun, one with a .257 Wby and me with my long range 7mm. If the 'yote stops running at any distance in the open, there's a very good chance they won't be running any more. ;D
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Post by steve46511 on Dec 26, 2011 7:21:19 GMT -5
Down here too but not alarmed yet. I hunt a small pocket and it dont take much to radically change numbers seen. I've seen it before. Some years I'll see more bucks than I saw DEER the previous or season following.
DOES seem that most I talk to are stating lower numbers. What I find interesting is it is NOT exclusive to IN but roughly follows the same pattern as we are seeing. Odd, IMO.....or maybe not.
Am agreeing with the coyotes threads. With our rabbit and other small game at a very very low level, it isn't tough to imagine what they hunt instead, at least some and have seen some running deer in person.
With few YOUNG deer sighted this year, I too think Ill look for a cheap 222 and have at em a bit each winter. Getting old enough I hate to kill for killing sake, and admit they are doing what coyotes do.
Never did understand the reintroduction of coyotes to IN. Small game was hard enough to find before that, and now maybe the deer herd suffers too. Hard to say for sure but they have to get some of the young, sad fact.
I'll give my area another year to see what's what before I panic but will be willing to bet IN's harvest took a dip. Some of it is weather, some of it.....I just don't know but I saw LARGE numbers in my area in the late season LAST year and just not yet buying that they disappeared from Jan to Oct for 2011.
Nephews area was down seeing does, but bucks? He was in deer hog heaven this year.
Still a few days to hunt. Hoping for more sightings now that pressure in my area is off.
It will be interesting to see the annual results of all the midwest states, but it seems they are all following the same path, at least pretty much.
God Bless
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Post by reloader on Dec 26, 2011 17:36:55 GMT -5
Rabbits too are gone ,I can walk miles and not kick up one,I used to love the idea of coyotys around when they 1st appeared, 1st the foxes where gone,then groundhogs,then rabbits,I think its time wiley coyoty goes. it WAR lol. How differant now to sit in a treestand all day,never see any critter but birds & a distant Yoty.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2011 18:30:58 GMT -5
Good luck trying to control coyotes. Without posions, it's a tuff battle. Once they reach their carrying capacity, it's too late. If you were lucky enough to kill a bunch, then you have more coons and skunks and less turkeys and small game. The only reasonable approach is to work on improving the cover on your property to help protect some of the critters that would normally become part of the food chain.
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Post by billybobteeth on Dec 26, 2011 18:34:13 GMT -5
BBT, I'm interested in a link to your study, can you post it? Doesn't seem feesable that the only deer you have giving birth are fawns? Hard to believe really. Pretty common for yearling does to give birth to twin, normal size and normal growing fawns every year. Fawns do often give birth late by one month, normally to a single fawn, that has the capability to grow to normal size and weight with time as any other deer, giving the same nutrition, which you saw is not lacking. Hate to say it, because it's a bad word for you, but that's basic QDM info. it was not just the fawns of the year it was also the 1 year oids that were giving birth to usually 1 single fawn that also has less chance of survival due to inexperianced mothering.I just got in from a bird hunt and have birds setting in salt water to clean so Im sure you can find it you are not an unsavey computer user.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2011 18:40:33 GMT -5
Nothing on Google about it.
Never heard of a inexperienced yearling mother either. Seems as with all mothers, it's a natrual experience to mother. As you may know, 67% of all bred yearlings will have two fawns, about 30% of those will never be recruited into the herd because of accidental deaths or other causes of death.
BTW- 83Lb button buck is average weight, nothing shabby about that at all. I've seen areas of high deer density that have BB's in the 45-50LB range.
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Post by firstwd on Dec 26, 2011 22:31:55 GMT -5
Habitat loss is the main reason all wildlife numbers are low. The DNR wants the deer numbers lower and two years ago they pretty much shut down the live coyote market. Does anybody think they just might know what they're doing?
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Post by throbak on Dec 27, 2011 7:32:17 GMT -5
First, I do, I have always said with the deer problem we have why kill the free help???
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Post by DEERTRACKS on Dec 27, 2011 7:51:43 GMT -5
About the same numbers for does & small/average-racked bucks. A lot less big-racked bucks.
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Post by racktracker on Dec 27, 2011 9:00:16 GMT -5
Habitat loss is the main reason all wildlife numbers are low. The DNR wants the deer numbers lower and two years ago they pretty much shut down the live coyote market. Does anybody think they just might know what they're doing? LOL...Where is the ROTFLMAO icon on this site? Maybe they dumb lucked into this one? The live trappers told them they would quit trapping coyotes and let the population explode. The so called hunting groups, even the deer hunting group, was against the live trapping. The deer hunter group is supposed to be promoting deer and deer hunting and they campaigned to stop a method of removing a deer predator. Not too much forsight on their part was it?
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Post by trapperdave on Dec 27, 2011 9:18:04 GMT -5
gettin what they deserve in that respect
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Post by omegahunter on Dec 27, 2011 9:20:03 GMT -5
Since hunting the same property for about 5 years, the numbers of deer are pretty much the same. But that is way down from the property that I used to hunt before it became a coal mine.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2011 9:24:47 GMT -5
Live trapping yotesis bad business. Most of them would have been turned loose to be chased by dogs, and end up back in the wild.
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Post by omegahunter on Dec 27, 2011 9:41:27 GMT -5
Most of them were sold to training pens and hardly ever ended up on the outside again. Well, the ones that I knew of anyway.
I used to be part of the coyote dog running group until gas got the point that it was not enough fun to go through a tank full of gas in one morning and there was getting to be too many others that had joined our group and they liked to shoot the coyote before the dogs got to get any hair in their mouths.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2011 10:42:45 GMT -5
Pretty common for a yote to get out of the pen, purpose of the law was to eliminate that chance.
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Post by vortex100 on Dec 27, 2011 23:15:29 GMT -5
Same amount for me in central Indiana on both the properties I hunt. I think the biggest factors for me the past few years have been the weather and pressure. Going to do some major stand moves this summer in one area to help with pressure from the neighboring property. The weather seems to get warmer each year so that is pushing more deer movement after dark.
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Post by lugnutz on Dec 27, 2011 23:55:38 GMT -5
Not a bad year for me personally, took 2 bucks and 8 does this year. I hunted Posey, Vandeburgh, Gibson, Pike, Warrick, Wabash, and Henry counties this year. Seen good deer in every county.
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Post by trapperdave on Dec 28, 2011 8:41:36 GMT -5
droppin the live market saved thousands of yote lives. Most were trapped and put down, very few made it to the pens...but it was an incentive for the pro trappers, a way to make some cash. with no incentive and no money to be made, many have hung up their traps. hence current coyote explosion.
Ill break it down. trapper A used to take 200 yotes a year, sold about twenty to the pens and killed/skinned the other 180 and collected the paltry sum of about ten dollars each for those. The pens pay 50. Trapper A can not afford the expenses of a line without the additional money from the pens so he hangs his traps in the shed and focuses on better paying furs. Now theres a couple hundred more yotes in the "herd" cause trapper A aint catchin em. Figure half of those are females that will have a litter of 4-6 pups....population explosion.
the pens were sadly the only method to run dogs SAFELY and without tresspass issues. And nothing happened inside those pens that doesnt happen outside everytime a beagle runs rabbits or a birddog hunts bird, or retrievers etc.
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