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Post by swilk on Oct 19, 2007 12:32:47 GMT -5
No, the way to be absolutely clear is to work on catching the poachers and not put the burden on law abiding citizens and hunters. You cant really be a "law abiding" citizen just because the law you are breaking isnt enforced. It has always been illegal to keep the antlers ..... it just seems they plan to enforce this more now than in the past. I do not see how anything has changed. I shot a deer on October 29th 2005. My father finally found the buck in late February. I called the CO and told him what happened (because I knew the law) and was told "no problem". It took 30 seconds of my time to make sure I was doing the right thing.
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Post by Hawkeye on Oct 19, 2007 12:49:08 GMT -5
I really think the biggest problem with the rules and regulations of the IDNR is there is little uniformity,The laws should be the same through out the state,not interpreted by each individual area supervisor as is now the case. Usually The first words you hear when you ask a question about state game law is check with the local CO in the area where you are hunting.
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Post by indianahick on Oct 19, 2007 12:57:30 GMT -5
Good information. So when we find a dead antlered buck in the spring then we call one of our local law enforcement groups and hopefully receive a possession permit. Personally I think I will call the Sheriffs department.
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Post by firstwd on Oct 19, 2007 14:09:53 GMT -5
The Sheriff can also issue the permits. Actually they can not. An officer that is not an ICO can only issue a permit for "Road Kill" animals. If a deer has died from anything other than a traffic collision an ICO has to be the one to issue the permit, or that permit is not legal.
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Post by Woody Williams on Oct 19, 2007 14:20:42 GMT -5
The Sheriff can also issue the permits. Actually they can not. An officer that is not an ICO can only issue a permit for "Road Kill" animals. If a deer has died from anything other than a traffic collision an ICO has to be the one to issue the permit, or that permit is not legal. I did not realize that. Now a question would be "how did that deer really die"? As I understand it after a certain length of time it can not be determined that the deer actually died of EHD. Even with laboratory analysis. They can say that the "death was consistent with EHD", but no positives. I found a doe skull yesterday in Illinois - it was in a picked cornfield about 75 yards from the road. Roadkill? Poached? EHD? Unknown? If a a carcass was fairly fresh and had a nice round .50 hole in it then one would pretty well claim it was shot. Any LEO at that time would get a CO involved.
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Post by mbogo on Oct 19, 2007 14:30:17 GMT -5
First of all nothing I posted was directed at Greendeem, it was directed at the DNR as was everyone else's complaints I believe. My main problem with this is the suggestion to use your own tag on the rack. I don't see how tagging a deer you didn't shoot could even be legal in the first place given other laws.
This happened the week before last with a younger CO.
It is a dumb law, that shouldn't be enforced in the first place. COs have more important things to do than bust people that pick up antlers, which I'm sure is why it wasn't enforced in the first place.
It is more of a burden on COs than anyone else and there is no need for it period.
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Post by mbogo on Oct 19, 2007 14:35:45 GMT -5
You will have to take that up with the COs that don't enforce it because there are a lot of us criminals out here.
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Post by raporter on Oct 20, 2007 15:57:00 GMT -5
I really think the biggest problem with the rules and regulations of the IDNR is there is little uniformity,The laws should be the same through out the state,not interpreted by each individual area supervisor as is now the case. Usually The first words you hear when you ask a question about state game law is check with the local CO in the area where you are hunting. Bingo.....
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Post by whiteoak on Oct 20, 2007 19:01:50 GMT -5
Here in Pike County if you find a big one dead you might as well go ahead and put your tag on him. I'm not exaggerating when I say that I feel 60 to 70 % of our adult deer have not survived this outbreak of EHD. Me and a friend went out last night and spent 3 hours shining. We seen close to 60 deer and out of the 60,at least 50 were this years fawns. Of the 60 we seen 2 were bucks that had visible antlers. One was a spike and the other was a small 6 pointer. There were some real nice bucks here this summer we were seeing and had several on trail cams, but the two bucks we seen last night were the first that I had seen in three months. Instead of hunting live deer I have been trophy hunting for big dead deer, and I'm not kidding.
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Post by stevein on Oct 20, 2007 20:54:43 GMT -5
"That is the rationale. There are literally hundreds of deer dead from EHD and the concern is that some not so sporting sportsmen will take their deer and then pass it off as a found deer in order to continue hunting for bigger racks."
I find the whole mess laughable. You can make your own transport tag, wait up to 48 hours to check in and have someone else check in for you and they are worried about a "not so sporting sportsmen" getting extra deer. A better solution would be to establish a call-in report. This would give them a better handle on the true numbers of dead deer. Does and fawns could be reported too.
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Post by indianaboy on Oct 21, 2007 3:02:03 GMT -5
My main problem with this is the suggestion to use your own tag on the rack. I don't see how tagging a deer you didn't shoot could even be legal in the first place given other laws.
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Post by whiteoak on Oct 21, 2007 9:58:40 GMT -5
Guys..we have just recieved notification from our division that the Law Enforcement division has established a policy that all bucks that are found dead must be legally tagged if you want to keep the antlers. Greendeem, could you explain the proper process of getting a legal tag for one finding a dead deer. In your post, it sounds like you are saying that you must use your buck tag and I'm sure this is not the case. I'm sure a simple call to your local CO and a tag would be provided for one wanting to keep a set of antlers of an EHD killed deer.
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Post by danf on Oct 21, 2007 13:36:00 GMT -5
My question is, how long do you need to keep that "permit" for?
I know there are close to a dozen pairs of antlers hanging in the barn at my parents house, not to mention a set in my barn, plus 4 mounted pairs between my residence and theirs. Most of the sets were shot legally, I'm sure a couple of them were found at various times. I don't think we have the metal tags from ANY of the deer....
So are we legal or could we be cited? I realize there's "discretion" and all, but by the letter of the law, are we legal???
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Post by daworz on Oct 21, 2007 15:31:58 GMT -5
I think we are over thinking this? But then on the other hand who knows, you get a CO on the wrong day and we all have bad days and he could hammer you? Another thing is i was at a show this weekend and there was booth that made lamps with deer racks as well as Moose, Elk. I was talking to the artist about where he gets his antlers and he said he finds some and buys the rest from other Hunters?
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Post by old3arrows on Oct 22, 2007 19:00:19 GMT -5
I think this thread has gotten everyone spooked and been blown out of proportion. Just keep a set of hunting regs on hand or go on line and read them! It defines a roadkill deer, and a CO, IDNR property manager, assistant property manager, or other law enforcement officer can issue you a permit to posses the deer. I have taken several fresh roadkills, and only once was I refused a permit. See thread on deer jumping off of bridge! I butcher my own deer and keep the paper permit until the meat is gone out of my freezer. So it has always been illegal to cut the rack off of a roadkill and throw it in your truck without a permit. If a deer is found dead, then a CO, or person designated by the CO may issue you a permit to keep the deer. It's up to the CO's discretion as to whether he will issue you a permit or not based on the circumstances. You don't have to burn your buck tag on any of these dead deer. As for legally killed deer, fill out your paper tag, check them in or have a buddy check them in within 48 hours. The regs state: " The permanent seal must remain attached, until the carcass is placed in the custody of another person for processing or until the carcass has been processed and packaged. The deer head must remain attached to the carcass until the tag is attached and locked at the deer check station." I've got a habit of keeping all of my metal tags, but there is nothing in the regs that says you have to have a metal tag with your antlers or even keep the metal tags after the deer is processed. Now if you live in a county of high EHD and have several fresh racks hanging in your barn, can produce no permits, and the CO has never seen your face before, you are asking for trouble. Why is it so hard to be on the up and up? Is the allure of antlers whether they are big or small so important? You didn't harvest that deer, mother nature did, so why does it matter.
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