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Post by Old Ironsights on Oct 18, 2006 14:51:06 GMT -5
Another Forum has a mention of what is said to be this month's (?) D&DH mag's article on the relative "safety" of Slug Guns titled:
"Are shotguns really safer than rifles? Shocking new insights"
Anybody seen it? I've got to go buy a copy.
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Post by wolfhound on Oct 18, 2006 16:01:28 GMT -5
Some state did a study on it (NY or PA I think) and found that shotguns/slugs weren't really any safer. They then opened previously shotgun only areas to rifles. If I had the data was I'd go to my state senator. I wouldn't use a CF but there are people who would.
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Post by Old Ironsights on Oct 18, 2006 16:18:02 GMT -5
I sure wouldn't use a centerfire spitzer, but go compare the Rifle data on the Winchester Ammo site for .30-30, .35Rem, .38-40, .38-55, .357, .44-40, 44Mag, .45-70 and then look at the Hornady SST (and any of the Inline gun mfg data) and you will come away convinced that Sen Waterman was on target with his original Bill to allow any of the blunt-noze Tube-Feed cartridges & guns.
But no Spitzers.
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Post by Woody Williams on Oct 18, 2006 18:10:04 GMT -5
I just glanced at it and was disappointed.
It seemed to be mixing shotgun hunting for upland game with rifle hunting for deer in a lot of cases.
There was a little side by side slug gun versus rifles, but not much.
Or maybe I read it wrong.
My opinion is it the person shooting the weapon that can make it dangerous - not the weapon itself.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2006 19:09:49 GMT -5
Kentucky allows any centerfire rifle, with any bullet style and even on youth hunts. The hunter death toll each year from accidents and pass throughs is staggering, but we keep doing it for some reason?
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Post by lugnutz on Oct 18, 2006 22:13:11 GMT -5
Kentucky allows any centerfire rifle, with any bullet style and even on youth hunts. The hunter death toll each year from accidents and pass throughs is staggering, but we keep doing it for some reason? So what, they're kentuckians! Thats wrong, i'm sorry ;D
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2006 22:24:43 GMT -5
Actually, your correct. the lesson is that Kentuckians can use the big boy guns and do so safely, even our youngsters. Rifles are just as safe as shotguns or more so. Just be sure of your target before you let loose on it.
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Post by TagTeamHunter on Oct 19, 2006 1:30:01 GMT -5
Yup it's the people behind the guns that are the problem. I been on some public lands and felt no safer because it was only shotgun season. NO wait I been on private land and felt the same way. There are people I will never be in the same location with if they have a gun. Centerfire, Shotgun, M/L or BB Gun.
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Post by DEERTRACKS on Oct 19, 2006 8:49:16 GMT -5
Kentucky allows any centerfire rifle, with any bullet style and even on youth hunts. The hunter death toll each year from accidents and pass throughs is staggering, but we keep doing it for some reason? So what, they're kentuckians! Thats wrong, i'm sorry ;D You're soooooooooo bad!!!!!!! ;D ;D
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Post by DEERTRACKS on Oct 19, 2006 8:50:02 GMT -5
Yup it's the people behind the guns that are the problem. I been on some public lands and felt no safer because it was only shotgun season. NO wait I been on private land and felt the same way. There are people I will never be in the same location with if they have a gun. Centerfire, Shotgun, M/L or BB Gun. Well said.
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Post by Woody Williams on Oct 19, 2006 8:53:05 GMT -5
So what, they're kentuckians! Thats wrong, i'm sorry ;D You're soooooooooo bad!!!!!!! ;D ;D Timex was saying that with tonque planted firmly in his cheek. The Kentucky deer hunting safety record is ever bit as good as ours. .
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Post by LawrenceCoBowhunter on Oct 19, 2006 10:24:27 GMT -5
Have you ever heard the other guy down from you on opening weekend of gun season going through a box or two of slugs at a running deer 100 or 200 yards out?That guy with a rifle would scare me to death.
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Post by ridgerunner on Oct 19, 2006 11:02:14 GMT -5
I sure hope we don't get rifles legal here in Indiana. If you can't kill a deer at 100 yards or less you shouldn't be hunting the woodlands. On the prairie out west it's different you can see for 10 miles. In Indiana you can't see 20 yards at times and 100 is way out there. How many idiots will be firing round after round at deer with a rifle bullet that travels 300-400 yards scares the crap out of me. No way! I hope we Never get a rifles season, I see too many idiots in shotgun season flinging lead at anything that moves...Ridgerunner
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Post by Old Ironsights on Oct 19, 2006 11:06:20 GMT -5
Ridge, you are not paying attention to what is being said.
NO ONE is advocating 300-400 yd spitzers. We are only pointing out that certain classes of rifle/bullet combinations are substantially equivelent to modern shotguns and sabot muzzleloaders.
The trajectory tables don't lie. Look at them for yourself.
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Post by js2397 on Oct 19, 2006 11:10:33 GMT -5
One of the most interesting things from the article is the highest number of accidents occured where the population was the lowest.
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Post by Woody Williams on Oct 19, 2006 11:10:55 GMT -5
In this debate let's don't get the pistol cartridge rifles confused with the high powered centerfires such a .300 Mag.
Two very different "rifles"..
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Post by LawrenceCoBowhunter on Oct 19, 2006 11:18:44 GMT -5
I'd be all for a good brush rifle..A .460S&W or a 44mag in a rifle would be nice to have.
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Post by wolfhound on Oct 19, 2006 20:07:21 GMT -5
Ridge, you are not paying attention to what is being said. NO ONE is advocating 300-400 yd spitzers. We are only pointing out that certain classes of rifle/bullet combinations are substantially equivelent to modern shotguns and sabot muzzleloaders. The trajectory tables don't lie. Look at them for yourself. According to the box a lowly .22 LR is dangerous within a mile. All this "Safety" stuff is gonna do is limit everyone to archery equipment. Oh yeah it's dangerous too, ever seen an arrow shot at a 45 degree angle? If we really want to make folks safer we'll just do away with all the guns and bows and arrows. Deer hunting with a spear, modern hunting at it's finest. We'll just have to figure out how to eliminate all them newfangled spear guns. P.S. This is all tongue in cheek. There is no safe weapon and people fool themselves into thinking there is. Until the politicions figure out how to regulate stupidity there is no perfect solution. A weapon is only as safe as the hands that hold it. A slob hunter is just as dangerous with a 7mm Rem mag as he is with a 870 shooting 3" mag Sabot slugs out of a rifled barrel. If we really wanted to make folks safer we'd do away with repeating rifles and give everyone muzzleloaders. I have yet to see a muzzleloader shoot 5 shots as fast as you can shucking the action of a pumpgun. They can only miss once with a muzzleloader vs. the 5 with a sluggun. Even though I prefer muzzleloaders I would be against that. Anything that restricts hunters from taking game is a bad thing in today's over populated deer herds. F&G/DNR's should be loosening regulations in the light of declining hunter numbers not making them more restrictive.
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Post by Woody Williams on Oct 19, 2006 20:11:25 GMT -5
Well said Wolfhound.
It is not the hunting tool it is the person shooting it.
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Post by Old Ironsights on Oct 19, 2006 21:29:01 GMT -5
According to the box a lowly .22 LR is dangerous within a mile. And Toothpicks have "Keep out of Eyes" on the box too... Just because a bullet will travel a mile under optimal trajectory conditions doesn't mean it will actualy hurt somthing when it gets there. Mass + Velocity + Ballistic coefficient = danger at range. When those numbers ballance, there is no reason to ban one over another. Hell, there is no such thing as a "safe" anything in today's litigous society. If anything it's a marvel that a tool designed to kill things has a lower incident of accidental injury than automobiles or swimmingpools which are not designed to kill anything. Sermon, meet Choir. Sigh.
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