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Post by Sasquatch on Jan 14, 2008 6:39:59 GMT -5
Drgreyhound, as a fairly conservative individual with an understanding of freedom, you are all to rare in th medical profession, and I for one value your imput. No offense intended! I should also say that I think a healthy distrust of the government is a good thing. I'm just concerned that we are all getting ready to crawl in a bunker for no reason.
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Post by DEERTRACKS on Jan 14, 2008 8:05:01 GMT -5
Doc! As always. EXCELLENT INSITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by drs on Jan 14, 2008 8:22:08 GMT -5
NICS Improvement Act.......good legislation, read what it does before you comment. Those of us that deal in firearms appreciate what it is......those of you that don't are worried about things that will never happen, haven't happened and can't happen. Those of you that want "seasonal defective: people to have firearms can provide them with one. David, this bill wasn't passed by liberals. So, your wrong again.....that's several times today already. We'll See; and I hope you're right, Tom!
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Post by drs on Jan 14, 2008 8:29:54 GMT -5
Doc! As always. EXCELLENT INSITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I agree! GREAT POST, "drgreyhound "
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2008 8:41:02 GMT -5
I tend to find it ironic that some have grown distru l of our Republican leaders and of the only effective means of controlling harmful gun legislation? Without both, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. If you can't trust the only people that have worked for you for years stopping such nonsense, how can you trust anyone....yet you praise the words of a person in the medical field. Ever hear of any dishonesty in that profession? Read the law, which is already on the books and thank the NRA for seeing it through.
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Post by drgreyhound on Jan 14, 2008 8:47:28 GMT -5
Thanks Sasquatch, DT, and drs!!! ;D
(And just to make sure y'all know, although I know most know--I am not a medical professional and I do not have a doctorate, although I am working toward my doctorate...)
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Post by drs on Jan 14, 2008 9:27:45 GMT -5
Thanks Sasquatch, DT, and drs!!! ;D You're Welcome.
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Post by Sasquatch on Jan 14, 2008 9:34:49 GMT -5
Thanks Sasquatch, DT, and drs!!! ;D (And just to make sure y'all know, although I know most know--I am not a medical professional and I do not have a doctorate, although I am working toward my doctorate...) Yeah, we know, but the profession is where you are headed!! (That Doctorate is just a rubber stamp anyway. If you weren't smart before you went to get one, you won't be afterwards! One of my son's pediatricians has one, and he is such a moron.... I cannot fathom how he made it through med school! )
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Post by RiverJim on Jan 14, 2008 9:49:16 GMT -5
Ok, my knee hurts! ;D No I didn't read it all! I don't like lengthy reading or typing . But I took the time read a bit more. And if someone who WAS band from buying cause of a short term mental issue could now do so THAT'S A GOOD THING!!!!!! But if Joe whoever gets help with depression because his mamma died and is now ok gets band then that would be bad.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2008 10:33:11 GMT -5
Ok, my knee hurts! ;D No I didn't read it all! I don't like lengthy reading or typing . But I took the time read a bit more. And if someone who WAS band from buying cause of a short term mental issue could now do so THAT'S A GOOD THING!!!!!! But if Joe whoever gets help with depression because his mamma died and is now ok gets band then that would be bad. PArt of the improvement is that it allows you to be taken off the list as well, once your cured. This wasn't the case in the past. It requires updates also.
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Post by drs on Jan 14, 2008 10:40:10 GMT -5
Ok, my knee hurts! ;D No I didn't read it all! I don't like lengthy reading or typing . But I took the time read a bit more. And if someone who WAS band from buying cause of a short term mental issue could now do so THAT'S A GOOD THING!!!!!! But if Joe whoever gets help with depression because his mamma died and is now ok gets band then that would be bad. Part of the improvement is that it allows you to be taken off the list as well, once your cured. This wasn't the case in the past. It requires updates also. Please define "Cured" as in the eyes of the "Powers-that-be"?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2008 10:54:58 GMT -5
[ Please define "Cured" as in the eyes of the "Powers-that-be"? That would be up to one of those in the medical profession that you say you trust? Obviously, there's plenty of people walking around that can't be cured. ;D
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Post by drgreyhound on Jan 14, 2008 12:16:19 GMT -5
Good--I'm glad everyone knows. Just want to avoid any misunderstandings!!! That would be bad. Yeah, I know what you mean. It's disappointing to say the least to see these people out there, but you have to ask yourself how on Earth they made it through. The worst part is that they are responsible for the well-being of people who expect them to know what they are doing...
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Post by Old Ironsights on Jan 14, 2008 13:33:31 GMT -5
Timex: Here is an NRA quote for you - reiterated by Wayne "VIchy" LaPierre in his July 2007 Missive in American Rifleman: "Judge a law by the WORST reading and in the hands of the WORST enemies of the Second Amendment". What's so hard about that to understand? What have I posted that doesn't comply with that supposed NRA doctrine? Since when does continuously giving ground (the "slow bleed" of unreciprocated compromise) help us? All it does is selfishly make sure our grandkids don't have the RKBA. The NRA is not infalible and Wayne "Vichy" LaPierre is not Pope. Learn to read the law in conjunction with ALL the other laws and regulations it is supposed to modify. #1 Title: 18, I, 44, 922 sets an ANTIQUATED, BROAD and ESSENTIALLY UNDEFINED "standard" for "Mental Deficiency" - ONE THAT IS NO LONGER VALID. In 1968 there were extremely few ways to treat ANY mental illnesses. We were only 30 short years from the Public Policy of Sterilization, and generic Institutionalization of people with "mental illness". Should we be PERMENANTLY removing the RKBA of people AND THEIR FAMILIES based upon ANTIQUATED, MEDICALLY UNSOUND, STIGMATIZING, law? Should we be tracking Innocent People like CRIMINALS simply for being alive with a disease? You just don't get it. Here is a quite common scenerio: You have a Daughter in college. She is over 18, but lives with you and is having some serious emotional issues... serious enough that you want her seen by a doctor, but she doesn't want to go. OTOH, you believe she is at bodily risk, so you seek a court order for evaluation and treatment. You get one. That is an Adjudication. She is forever prohibited from owning Firearms and her name - your family name - gets placed into the NICS where, if the Fed actually adheres to HIPAA, her name becomes undistinguishable in the NICS from that of a Child Rapist. If she lives with you, you will be forced, BY LAW, to ensure that NONE of your firearms OR AMMUNITION, is even "accidentially" accessible to her. That means another Safe or two... and no bedside guns... Add to that the FACT that Law Enforcement regularly cross-matches "prohibited persons" lists (which up to now only included felons) with Hunting Licenses in order to create Probable Cause for a Warrant to search a home for "guns in possession of a prohibited person". What if they match your daughter's name/residence with your Hunting License/CCW? Neurochemical Disorders don't "get better" - they get treatment. Just like Diabetes. The outright LIE that this Law will somehow let "prohibited persons" - other than the tens of thousands caught up by a simple 1% error rate - regain their rights, based upon a finding of "no longer has disability" is cruel in the extreme. Make no mistake. This law will disarm innocent families. It makes innocent people indistinguishable from heinous criminals to the government. And it is Illegal and Unconstitutional in every sense of the term. Read somthing besides the NRA spin. They are out to cover their collective paychecks. www.gunowners.org/a010808.htmwww.gunowners.org/netb.htmwww.gunowners.org/news/n122107.pdf
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2008 14:11:33 GMT -5
I'm against allowing adjudicated persons with serious emotional issues being able to purchase a firearm.......that already outlawed by the 1968 Gun Control Act. I'm sorry your family has issues, hopefully you will get it fixed.
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Post by Old Ironsights on Jan 14, 2008 15:18:53 GMT -5
I'm against allowing adjudicated persons with serious emotional issues being able to purchase a firearm....... And this law will stop that how? Or are you against all private sales too? Who says all "adjudicated persons" still have serious emotional issues? Most have neurochemical disorders that CAN BE SUCCESSFULLY TREATED - but this Law doesn't take that into account. “Me, Me, Me, Too Bad for you. You don’t deserve the Rights GUARANTEED by the Constitution” Meh. What part of "Shall Not Be Infringed" do you not understand? Or do you consider gun ownership to be a Government Granted Privilege? You obviously refuse to actually pay attention to what I, and others who CARE about the Constitution, wrote. The 1968 GCA is OVERLY BROAD, and MEDICALLY ANTIQUATED. It was BAD LAW when they misused the Interstate Commerce Clause to justify it and it is BAD LAW today. You don’t “fix” neurochemical disorders, you TREAT them – just like Diabetes. You Don’t let the Government officially Stigmatize people with an illness and treat them like criminals. Why is that so hard so comprehend?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2008 15:49:05 GMT -5
And this law will stop that how? It'll help, because the files will have to be updated and audited. The good part for you is it allows a person to get off the list if the situation changes....before, there was no getting off the list.Or are you against all private sales too? NO, absolutely not, but I would NOT recommend selling a privately owned gun to someone you know or suspect might be "having issues". Who says all "adjudicated persons" still have serious emotional issues? Most have neurochemical disorders that CAN BE SUCCESSFULLY TREATED - but this Law doesn't take that into account. You did.
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Post by Old Ironsights on Jan 14, 2008 15:56:54 GMT -5
You are being willfully obtuse.
Is gun ownership a Right or Government Granted Privilege?
Choose.
Do innocent people deserve to be treated and tracked like Criminals?
What part of "shall Not Be Infringed" do you not understand?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2008 16:08:28 GMT -5
You are being willfully obtuse. Is gun ownership a Right or Government Granted Privilege? Choose. Do innocent people deserve to be treated and tracked like Criminals? What part of "shall Not Be Infringed" do you not understand? Certain individuals are disqualified from owning a firearm.....this includes those that are adjuducated. Now, if you don't want your family member being one of them, don't adjudicate them. Don't renounce your citizenship Don't let them become felons as well. Add about 10 more things that will also disqualify you by looking at FFL Form 4473 if you want. Those things have been decided by the society that we live in, same as all laws on the books, good or bad.
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Post by Old Ironsights on Jan 14, 2008 17:03:04 GMT -5
You are being willfully obtuse. Is gun ownership a Right or Government Granted Privilege? Choose. Do innocent people deserve to be treated and tracked like Criminals? What part of "shall Not Be Infringed" do you not understand? Certain individuals are disqualified from owning a firearm.....this includes those that are adjuducated. Now, if you don't want your family member being one of them, don't adjudicate them. Don't renounce your citizenship Don't let them become felons as well. Add about 10 more things that will also disqualify you by looking at FFL Form 4473 if you want. Those things have been decided by the society that we live in, same as all laws on the books, good or bad. You would make families decide between the health of a family member and their Right of Self Defense. There are no words to express what a reprehensible position that is. You do not believe Gun Ownership is a Right. What else would you allow to happen if "society" decided it were acceptable? Euthanasia? Forced Sterilization? EDITED.....Enough of the personal stuff. Final warning. h.h.
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