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Post by JohnSmiles on May 16, 2007 21:27:33 GMT -5
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Post by bsutravis on May 16, 2007 22:22:45 GMT -5
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Post by dbd870 on May 17, 2007 4:16:12 GMT -5
What is a Neil Smith, never heard of him. While I'm not a huge fan of either major party, this guy is too much.
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Post by DEERTRACKS on May 17, 2007 6:17:10 GMT -5
Interesting read.
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Post by chicobrownbear on May 17, 2007 7:52:06 GMT -5
Altimont would have flowed with the analogy better than Auschwitz.
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Post by tmarsh83 on May 17, 2007 8:19:37 GMT -5
The first thing is to stop flying. Drive the airlines into total bankruptcy. They are owned and run by influential individuals who will then be forced to reevaluate the illegal security measures they are happy, at present, to have the government appear to force on them. At the same time, corporations—simply extensions of the government, after all—must be subject to stringent enforcement of the Bill of Rights. I AM USING CAPS SO YOU CAN SEE MY WORDS MORE EASILY... THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN. EVEN IF YOU COULD MAKE PEOPLE STOP FLYING, THE GOVT WOULD FLOAT THEM. POLITICIANS STILL HAVE TO FLY, AND THIS IS CHEAPER THAN BUYING THEIR OWN PLANE. The fourth thing is to pass a law—yes, this libertarian is actually saying "there ought to be a law (as long as it applies only to the government)"—making it an offense punishable by public hanging for any government employee, at any level, to lie to any individual for any reason. Government lies kill, far more reliably, far more universally and cruelly, than any so-called "weapon of mass destruction". TWO QUESTIONS, FIRST, WOULD MY FIANCE BY HUNG AS A TEACHER, AND THEREFORE GOVT EMPLOYEE FOR NOT ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS ASKED OF HER BY HER STUDENTS TRUTHFULLY? IT WOULD SEEM TO IMPLY THAT THIS NUT THINKS SHE SOULD. I DONT THINK HER STUDENTS NEED TO KNOW WHERE WE LIVE, AND IF SHE LIES TO THEM THAT IS FINE BY ME. SECOND, IF YOU ARE GOING TO HOLD GOVT OFFICIALS TO THIS RULE, YOU MIGHT AS WELL HOLD EVERYONE TO IT. ANYONE THAT LIES, TELLS AN UNTRUTH, OR WITHHOLDS INFORMATION(THAT IS THE SAME THING AS LYING RIGHT) MUST BE PUT TO DEATH. GIVE ME A BREAK. This government lied about Iraq's non-existent "weapons of mass destruction". NO, HE HAD THEM. WE KNOW, WE HAVE THE RECEIPT. THE KURDS HE GASSED IN THE NORTH, THAT WAS PARTIALLY AMERICAN TECHNOLOGY. JOHN...YOU DO REMEMBER WHEN HE GASSED THAT WHOLE TOWN DON'T YOU? Throughout this embarrassingly prolonged and shameful display, it never occurred to any of the s and pimps of the roundheeled mass media to demand some sort of proof that any of this had ever really happened. THIS IS THE ONLY PLACE THAT I SEE WHERE HE ADDRESSES THE TRUE ISSUE WITH SOCIETY TODAY. THE 24 HOUR NEWS CYCLE IS A GREAT THING. SORT OF. IT ALSO LEADS TO MORE IRRESPONSIBLE REPORTING THAN ANYTHING, EVER. YOU HAVE ABC, NBC, CNN, FOX, ALL WANTING TO BREAK THE STORY BEFORE THE OTHERS, IF A FEW FACTS GET LEFT OUT TO GET IT UP BEFORE THE OTHERS, SO BE IT. AMERICANS ARE AT THE MERCY OF THE MEDIA. IF THEY REPORT SOMETHING IT MUST BE TRUE. YOU CAN'T WALK OUT THERE AND SAY, "THAT WAS OUT OF CONTEXT', NOBODY BELIEVES THAT STUFF ANYMORE. THERE ARE POLITICIANS THAT ARE WRETCHED. EVERY KENNEDY EVER COMES TO MIND. THERE ARE SOME THAT ARE USELESS, MARK SOUDER COMES TO MIND. AND THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF OTHERS THAT EVEN THE CONSTITUENTS CAN'T RECALL. IF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE SO UNHAPPY WITH AMERICA, WHERE SHOULD THEY LOOK, THE CLOSE KNIT CIRCLE OF A FEW THOUSAND IN DC THAT ARE CONSPRIING AGAINT THEM EVERY DAY? GIVE ME A BREAK...LOOK IN THE MIRROR. WHAT IS WRONG WITH AMERICA IS AMERICANS. THE STUPID LAWS THAT ARE PASSED BY THE POLITICIANS ARE BECAUSE THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DEMAND THAT THEY GET DONE. IGNORE THIS IF YOU WANT BUT THAT WOULD BE YOUR MISTAKE. THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY ARE SHEEP, BLAME THE SHEEP FOR LEAVING THE HERD, NOT THE SHEPARD FOR TRYING TO GET HIM BACK IN LINE.
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Post by greghopper on May 17, 2007 8:36:30 GMT -5
Good Post Marsh... Bullseye
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Post by Woody Williams on May 17, 2007 8:43:26 GMT -5
Sorry... I couldn't get last the first two paragraphs.
Total BS...and not worth my time to read it..
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Post by tmarsh83 on May 17, 2007 8:49:46 GMT -5
No, really, after all the BS german references, it clears up into a whole different kind of mindless whining dribble...
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Post by bsutravis on May 17, 2007 8:54:36 GMT -5
mindless whining dribble... LOL.
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Post by Old Ironsights on May 17, 2007 10:21:10 GMT -5
What is a Neil Smith, never heard of him. While I'm not a huge fan of either major party, this guy is too much. L Neil Smith is a Libertarian author of mostly Science Fiction works(and some would say philosophical heir to RAH), though he also specializes in anti-intrusive-government polemics. www.lneilsmith.org/whyguns.htmlwww.lneilsmith.org/lns_lever.htmlHis simple and overarching Premise is that the single biggest problem with the US right now (and throughout its history) is the absolute failure of the Government and People to take the Bill of Rights seriously &/or enforce them as the Law of the Land that they are. While he does have some conspiracy-theorist issues that I disagree with, when it comes to pure Politics, he's dead on IMO.
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Post by Decatur on May 17, 2007 16:31:21 GMT -5
Hmmmm...
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Post by JohnSmiles on May 17, 2007 17:17:11 GMT -5
The first thing is to stop flying. Drive the airlines into total bankruptcy. They are owned and run by influential individuals who will then be forced to reevaluate the illegal security measures they are happy, at present, to have the government appear to force on them. At the same time, corporations—simply extensions of the government, after all—must be subject to stringent enforcement of the Bill of Rights. I AM USING CAPS SO YOU CAN SEE MY WORDS MORE EASILY... THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN. EVEN IF YOU COULD MAKE PEOPLE STOP FLYING, THE GOVT WOULD FLOAT THEM. POLITICIANS STILL HAVE TO FLY, AND THIS IS CHEAPER THAN BUYING THEIR OWN PLANE. The fourth thing is to pass a law—yes, this libertarian is actually saying "there ought to be a law (as long as it applies only to the government)"—making it an offense punishable by public hanging for any government employee, at any level, to lie to any individual for any reason. Government lies kill, far more reliably, far more universally and cruelly, than any so-called "weapon of mass destruction". TWO QUESTIONS, FIRST, WOULD MY FIANCE BY HUNG AS A TEACHER, AND THEREFORE GOVT EMPLOYEE FOR NOT ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS ASKED OF HER BY HER STUDENTS TRUTHFULLY? IT WOULD SEEM TO IMPLY THAT THIS NUT THINKS SHE SOULD. I DONT THINK HER STUDENTS NEED TO KNOW WHERE WE LIVE, AND IF SHE LIES TO THEM THAT IS FINE BY ME. SECOND, IF YOU ARE GOING TO HOLD GOVT OFFICIALS TO THIS RULE, YOU MIGHT AS WELL HOLD EVERYONE TO IT. ANYONE THAT LIES, TELLS AN UNTRUTH, OR WITHHOLDS INFORMATION(THAT IS THE SAME THING AS LYING RIGHT) MUST BE PUT TO DEATH. GIVE ME A BREAK. I agree with your take on the flying issue. I think he goes too far on several things, but in the end he is dead on. As for the death for lying, and it possibly applying even to teachers, it is the right idea taken a bit far. I do not think in MOST instances it should apply to teachers, but in some yes. Not the death penalty mind you. I think anyone in office, found guilty of breaking any laws, should receive twice the allowable sentence BARE MINIMUM. Our government should NOT be a safe haven for crooks, and ALL our leaders should be held to HIGHER standards, not lower ones. This government lied about Iraq's non-existent "weapons of mass destruction". NO, HE HAD THEM. WE KNOW, WE HAVE THE RECEIPT. THE KURDS HE GASSED IN THE NORTH, THAT WAS PARTIALLY AMERICAN TECHNOLOGY. JOHN...YOU DO REMEMBER WHEN HE GASSED THAT WHOLE TOWN DON'T YOU? Throughout this embarrassingly prolonged and shameful display, it never occurred to any of the *****s and ****s of the roundheeled mass media to demand some sort of proof that any of this had ever really happened. THIS IS THE ONLY PLACE THAT I SEE WHERE HE ADDRESSES THE TRUE ISSUE WITH SOCIETY TODAY. THE 24 HOUR NEWS CYCLE IS A GREAT THING. SORT OF. IT ALSO LEADS TO MORE IRRESPONSIBLE REPORTING THAN ANYTHING, EVER. YOU HAVE ABC, NBC, CNN, FOX, ALL WANTING TO BREAK THE STORY BEFORE THE OTHERS, IF A FEW FACTS GET LEFT OUT TO GET IT UP BEFORE THE OTHERS, SO BE IT. AMERICANS ARE AT THE MERCY OF THE MEDIA. IF THEY REPORT SOMETHING IT MUST BE TRUE. YOU CAN'T WALK OUT THERE AND SAY, "THAT WAS OUT OF CONTEXT', NOBODY BELIEVES THAT STUFF ANYMORE. THERE ARE POLITICIANS THAT ARE WRETCHED. EVERY KENNEDY EVER COMES TO MIND. THERE ARE SOME THAT ARE USELESS, MARK SOUDER COMES TO MIND. AND THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF OTHERS THAT EVEN THE CONSTITUENTS CAN'T RECALL. IF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE SO UNHAPPY WITH AMERICA, WHERE SHOULD THEY LOOK, THE CLOSE KNIT CIRCLE OF A FEW THOUSAND IN DC THAT ARE CONSPRIING AGAINT THEM EVERY DAY? GIVE ME A BREAK...LOOK IN THE MIRROR. WHAT IS WRONG WITH AMERICA IS AMERICANS. THE STUPID LAWS THAT ARE PASSED BY THE POLITICIANS ARE BECAUSE THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DEMAND THAT THEY GET DONE. IGNORE THIS IF YOU WANT BUT THAT WOULD BE YOUR MISTAKE. THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY ARE SHEEP, BLAME THE SHEEP FOR LEAVING THE HERD, NOT THE SHEPARD FOR TRYING TO GET HIM BACK IN LINE. Yes, the vast majority are sheep. And very touchy about being called sheep. Most simply deny there are such problems, and in that way absolve themselves of any guilt by NOT acting in a manner they assure themselves they WOULD if it were actually TRUE. We are being lied to every single day. That is fact. 'But as long as I can pay my bills and live as I see fit, who cares what the government does to other people' is how most see it. WMD's? Trent, do not play stupid concerning wmd's. We were sold a bill of goods on the weapons of mass destruction. We were convinced he had nukes and high tech germ warfare. We SOLD him the ages old nerve gas year ago ourselves. Sorry... I couldn't get last the first two paragraphs.
Total BS...and not worth my time to read it.. There is a lot of that going around here lately I have noticed. . . . I think you jumped to conclusions a bit too soon here, and would be surprised if you had read a bit more. What is a Neil Smith, never heard of him. While I'm not a huge fan of either major party, this guy is too much. L Neil Smith is a Libertarian author of mostly Science Fiction works(and some would say philosophical heir to RAH), though he also specializes in anti-intrusive-government polemics. www.lneilsmith.org/whyguns.htmlwww.lneilsmith.org/lns_lever.htmlHis simple and overarching Premise is that the single biggest problem with the US right now (and throughout its history) is the absolute failure of the Government and People to take the Bill of Rights seriously &/or enforce them as the Law of the Land that they are.
While he does have some conspiracy-theorist issues that I disagree with, when it comes to pure Politics, he's dead on IMO. Exactly!Glad someone got past the first two paragraphs. ;D Good links, as I was not aware he had written so much. I don't agree with everything anyone says or supports that I have ever met. But there is a great deal of dead on in much of this guys writings. Just because I and the KKK are both against illegal immigration does not mean I support the KKK. It simply means that there are no two people who actually disagree on everything.
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Post by tmarsh83 on May 17, 2007 22:13:30 GMT -5
John, until I see difinitive evidence that the Bekah valley has been searched, I don't buy he had nothing. Period.
Think on this for just a second. During the first gulf war, he had scuds that he tried to fire at isreal, my number might be a bit off, but just follow me on this one. He had something like 50 scuds from the soviets, he fired something like 18 of them, and the rest, never found. 15 years later, 32 scuds have never been recovered. These are missle trucks almost twice the size of the standard big rig. And they are just gone? No, they are somewhere. Chem weapons are like crystal meth, it takes a couple ingredients, a heat source, and little more than a 1982 safari van...voila...germ/chem warfare...
WE also weren't the only ones that bought the intel that we had at the time. The rest of the world agreed that he was pursuing nuclear capability, they just wanted to sit there and engage in the typical melodramatic hand wringing that we have come to expect from the UN, and little more. They didn't think we were wrong about intel, they thought we were wrong for walking up to the bully on the playground, and telling him his mom was fat, his dad was stupid, and it was time someone kicked his ass.
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Post by JohnSmiles on May 17, 2007 22:42:49 GMT -5
John, until I see difinitive evidence that the Bekah valley has been searched, I don't buy he had nothing. Period. Think on this for just a second. During the first gulf war, he had scuds that he tried to fire at isreal, my number might be a bit off, but just follow me on this one. He had something like 50 scuds from the soviets, he fired something like 18 of them, and the rest, never found. 15 years later, 32 scuds have never been recovered. These are missle trucks almost twice the size of the standard big rig. And they are just gone? No, they are somewhere. Chem weapons are like crystal meth, it takes a couple ingredients, a heat source, and little more than a 1982 safari van...voila...germ/chem warfare... WE also weren't the only ones that bought the intel that we had at the time. The rest of the world agreed that he was pursuing nuclear capability, they just wanted to sit there and engage in the typical melodramatic hand wringing that we have come to expect from the UN, and little more. They didn't think we were wrong about intel, they thought we were wrong for walking up to the bully on the playground, and telling him his mom was fat, his dad was stupid, and it was time someone kicked his ass. 'His'? If we had wanted 'his' posterior, we could have had it on many occasions and you know it. Look at where we are now? Many saw it was wrong then, and not simply for the reason you offer. Perhaps they were right, and saw much we did not, as we were blinded by the 9/11 tragedy and simply wanted a tangible target. The world was hardly in agreement on anything if I remember correctly. But we were angry, and ready for a fight. And Bush played it for all it was worth, and still is. It isn't about terrorists. Its about oil.
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Post by tmarsh83 on May 17, 2007 22:49:25 GMT -5
What was WWII about in your opinion John?
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Post by tmarsh83 on May 17, 2007 23:00:43 GMT -5
We didn't give 2 craps about what was happening during WWII until our economy was truly threatened. Heck, for part of the war, we bought goods from germany, made in jewish forced labor camps. WE HELPED FUND THE GERMAN WAR MACHINE OF THE 1930'S!!!!
EVERY WAR IS ABOUT MONEY. Period. Any attempt to prove otherwise, is a complete and udder dribble. Sometimes the money is people, sometimes it is land, and sometimes it is oil. I see this war no differently. I just don't see it for the oil aspect as much as for assuring that part of the middle east remains US friendly in one way or another. This is a turf war. Turkey used to be friendly...now, not so much. We needed another base for operations in the middle east, afghanistan wasn't a good long term plan. Iraq looked better, and we had a list a mile long why taking saddam out was ok.
In the end, the world is a better place, as a whole without him, Iraq is about a wash...more people get a chance to try to have a life...but that means more bickering among the clans that saddam kept from fighting...you know...by killing anyone that opposed him.
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Post by indianahick on May 18, 2007 8:42:05 GMT -5
Couple of real good questions there Marsh where did the scuds go? Where did all of the canisters of nerve gas go? My opinion is that they are still there, someplace, hidden, either in a mountain or in a vault in the sand. Lots and lots of unchecked sand. Yeah he had some stuff, maybe not nukes. But then we do not know what was bought off of the black market either. Lots of Russian nukes have disappeared after the fall. It is time to tell them you have to take care of this we are tired of policing your country. You have x amount of time to do it. Whether you get it done or not in that amount of time we are gone.
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Post by tmarsh83 on May 18, 2007 9:36:17 GMT -5
Oh wow hick...I really don't want to get started on the thousands of unaccounted for nuclear devices that are missing from the old soviet union.
Thanks for agreeing though...I was starting to questions everyone's sanity.
The level of NOTHINGNESS that was found in Iraq when we invaded was scary. No country has that much nothing, without making that much nothing be there. Saddam was an ego-maniac, he micromanaged everything.
Does anyone really think that he didnt know where all his germ toys were, and where to hide them when his parents came home? They are there, somewhere. This is a country about twice the size of Idaho. it doesn't take much to hide a few things in there...
Did everyone expect him to park everything in front of the consulate? Get a clue...
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Post by JohnSmiles on May 18, 2007 17:02:47 GMT -5
What was WWII about in your opinion John? I don't have one Trent. I wasn't even here. But I am sure there are multiple 'opinions' available from those who lived it. This has what to do with WMD's, or the lack thereof? We didn't give 2 craps about what was happening during WWII until our economy was truly threatened. Heck, for part of the war, we bought goods from germany, made in jewish forced labor camps. WE HELPED FUND THE GERMAN WAR MACHINE OF THE 1930'S!!!! EVERY WAR IS ABOUT MONEY. Period. Any attempt to prove otherwise, is a complete and udder dribble. Sometimes the money is people, sometimes it is land, and sometimes it is oil. I see this war no differently. I just don't see it for the oil aspect as much as for assuring that part of the middle east remains US friendly in one way or another. This is a turf war. Turkey used to be friendly...now, not so much. We needed another base for operations in the middle east, afghanistan wasn't a good long term plan. Iraq looked better, and we had a list a mile long why taking saddam out was ok. In the end, the world is a better place, as a whole without him, Iraq is about a wash...more people get a chance to try to have a life...but that means more bickering among the clans that saddam kept from fighting...you know...by killing anyone that opposed him. Ah, I see. My opinion wasn't wanted. You simply wanted to state yours. Got it. Now lets see...you seem to be trying to argue its NOT about the oil, yet you admit "EVERY WAR IS ABOUT MONEY" and then go on to say "Sometimes the money is people, sometimes it is land, and sometimes it is oil". Which is 100% correct. Seems you are nit picking here in the extreme if you see such a diametric position in my opinion vs yours. You ALSO seem to clearly see it ISN'T about terrorism, and never was, which is the point. The 'War on terror' is another catch phrase designed to instill the same effect as the misnamed 'Patriot Act' and 'Cop killer bullets' bs. Oil is countless billions(if not trillions) of dollars of profit YET TO BE MADE by 'someone'. Our administration is very much attempting to ensure that 'someone' is either part of, or indebted to, the USA. Whatever it takes. The oil is just sitting there, and everyone wants and NEEDS it, as fast as it can be refined. Now, one would think that they would be constantly building more refineries to ensure demand is met, but that hasn't been happening to any degree at all for a great many years now. If it had been, oil would still be cheap. They realized the supply had to be held in check until the demand forced prices up. And here we are today. Pandering various 'reasons' for the war and gas prices, when the only reason for both is obvious. Absolute greed at the very top. Both here and in abroad. Oh wow hick...I really don't want to get started on the thousands of unaccounted for nuclear devices that are missing from the old soviet union. Thanks for agreeing though...I was starting to questions everyone's sanity. The level of NOTHINGNESS that was found in Iraq when we invaded was scary. No country has that much nothing, without making that much nothing be there. Saddam was an ego-maniac, he micromanaged everything. Does anyone really think that he didnt know where all his germ toys were, and where to hide them when his parents came home? They are there, somewhere. This is a country about twice the size of Idaho. it doesn't take much to hide a few things in there... Did everyone expect him to park everything in front of the consulate? Get a clue... There may indeed be some there. We had years of foreknowledge, and have had several years onsite now, and still basically zilch. Other than the gas we sold him ourselves of course. You 'question everyones sanity' eh? Years from now, you might at some point realize everyone you once thought 'insane' simply had looked a little deeper, and actually saw a little more, than you ever gave them credit for. While you are intelligent, you seem to think you have access to information the rest of us never thought of. Classic youth. I thought I had all the answers once myself, so I am not putting you down, though you will probably not accept that as truth. I myself found out I did NOT hold all the answers, and on top of that did not even know half of the questions. And still don't. But what I know now, is much more reliable than what I thought I knew then. Everything is NOT what it seems on the surface, the world is NOT as it should be, and the best of intentions often influence the worst of possible choices. And often enough, the simplest answer is correct, even when we don't want it to be. Here is a thought: How much of this stuff has possibly already been brought into the USA by way of our open borders? You know, the borders that are still wide open, even after 9/11? We are over THERE, while over HERE we do nothing of any consequence to actually secure the country. If a minimum of 20,000,000 people and billions of dollars worth of drugs has made it, what else has? How many cells could be at this very moment putting the last items in place to TRULY pull this country down? Now, look at it this way: If you wanted to do so, how many ways could YOU(a civilian with NO military or special ordnance training) think of to cause death, chaos and panic over here? I know of dozens of ways, and I have no special training at all. Now, compound that by having thousands(or tens of thousands) of loyal supporters already here through our border. And these guys have training, and have researched the field. Here is another thought: If there is such a need for Americans to give up their hard-fought freedoms so easily to ensure our 'safety', where is all the blood and gore? Where are all these terrorists? We have homeland insecurity, the Patriot Act, bs laws concerning flights and travel . . . for what exactly? We cannot even control the drug trade, yet are expected to believe we are winning the war on terror? bs. There is no threat. There is only a need to convince Americans they have to accept one more rule after another for their own 'safety' and the security of the nation. The sheep can ONLY be controlled as long as they can still convince themselves they AREN'T sheep. I could cause untold death and terror with a little effort. If there were any real effort here in America, you would see it. You would not HAVE to be constantly reminded it exists by big brother. And claiming our efforts are what is preventing it, is what I would indeed call 'insanity'.
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