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Post by drgreyhound on Apr 17, 2007 18:17:25 GMT -5
Crazy people are just that ...... crazy. Swilk, before you generalize, realize that people that might appear crazy on a superficial level might be mentally ill and in serious need of help. Yes, there are some with very pervasive personality disorders for which the likelihood of being helped by treatment is very slim, I admit--but they are mostly the minority. Instead of writing people with behavioral or emotional problems off as "crazy," (and I'm not saying "crazy people" as you put it don't exist at all), let's reach out first and do what we can to help folks who are in immense pain and in need of help and healing. And let's remember the courage and dignity of those who lost their lives in this tragic event-- tinyurl.com/32ku3z
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Post by swilk on Apr 17, 2007 18:37:47 GMT -5
Perhaps I generalized to much with that statement ..... let me clarify.
When I said "crazy" I was referring to the individual who is willing to die and in fact has accepted death as part of what they are doing .... suicide bombers, 911 hijackers, Columbine killers and now this guy.
you know .... crazy people.
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Post by duff on Apr 17, 2007 19:43:03 GMT -5
6 of 10 kids on prozac, or some other meds? Are you counting advil? I would really like to see where you got that number. Don't waste your time with people who make up numbers. We all know 58.482% of all statistics are made up on the spot. That would roughly be 6 out of 10. You and I forgot no evil occurred pre 1960 or '50 or wait maybe '62. Definately the '70s. Murder, rape, child molesting, and the likes were invented in the recent years. I stand with my statement. If all you can see is gloom and doom then that sucks for you. I am done.
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Post by drgreyhound on Apr 17, 2007 19:43:20 GMT -5
Perhaps I generalized to much with that statement ..... let me clarify. When I said "crazy" I was referring to the individual who is willing to die and in fact has accepted death as part of what they are doing .... suicide bombers, 911 hijackers, Columbine killers and now this guy. you know .... crazy people. Okay, yes, I know what you mean-- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder--these types of people (again, the minority, but unfortunately they DO exist...).
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Post by tmarsh83 on Apr 17, 2007 21:19:56 GMT -5
6 of 10 kids on prozac, or some other meds? Are you counting advil? I would really like to see where you got that number. Don't waste your time with people who make up numbers. We all know 58.482% of all statistics are made up on the spot. That would roughly be 6 out of 10. You and I forgot no evil occurred pre 1960 or '50 or wait maybe '62. Definately the '70s. Murder, rape, child molesting, and the likes were invented in the recent years. I stand with my statement. If all you can see is gloom and doom then that sucks for you. I am done. Nice duff...I'll buy you a round anytime...
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Post by drs on Apr 18, 2007 7:43:57 GMT -5
6 of 10 kids on prozac, or some other meds? Are you counting advil? I would really like to see where you got that number. I have a Sister, who works in Product Development & Quality Control at Eli Lilly. Which, by-the-way, is the company that developed Prozac. So she/they should know the figures.
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Post by tmarsh83 on Apr 18, 2007 8:00:53 GMT -5
Is there a public document I can go to that shows me this number. I have a very difficult time beleiving the average elementry school around here has 300 of 500 kids on prozac...
Are 6 of 10 seniors using Viagra?
oops...wrong company...got a sister that works at Pfizer?
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Post by Russ Koon on Apr 18, 2007 13:20:52 GMT -5
I was just reading about some of the others who have done mass killings somewhat on the order of the VA shootings.
The MI bomber, Andrew Kehoe, who killed 45 people, mostly kids, back in '27.
Charles Whitman, the Texas tower sniper who killed seventeen victims in '66.
Jim Jones, the Jonestown Cool-Aid dispenser.
Tim McVey, the OK bomber.
The Columbine killers.
Looking for some sort of pattern, there doesn't seem to be much of one. Most were at least somewhat known to be "loners", but all had some friends.
They seemed to share a desperation with the way things were going in their world, or in the world in general. They seemed to share also a tendency to blame others for the problems in their own lives of their own making.
However, those two tendencies are so common that we can't run around putting away all the people that show those traits.
What tips these people over the edge into murderous madness? I don't know. They seem to have come from mixed religious backgrounds, running the gamut from the fanatical Jones and his charismatic fringe Protestant group to Kehoe, the mainstream Catholic, to McVey, the atheist.
At least two had military training, but I suspect that had more to do with their ability to kill so successfully than with their decision to do so.
The WV snipers of a couple years ago also come to mind, and add another case with ties to the military, but there again it probably has more to do with ability than motivation. The older figure there also seems to have shared a desperation and a tendency to blame others for his own shortcomings in realizing his goals. That looks like the only trait that repeats on a regular basis with every case that I've read so far.
I absolutely agree with most on here about the ability for the law-abiding public to carry concealed being a vital part in reducing the numbers of victims. Might not make a difference in every case, but almost certainly would have in some of them.
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Post by tusti on Apr 18, 2007 15:54:04 GMT -5
I sure hope nobody was praying at Virginia tech during and after the shooting. The supreme court ,the ACLU and the Democrat leadership might not be pleased about that. I have a hunch there was a lot of illegal praying going on or maybe that is what was wrong. Only a godless person could do such a thing. Take away god and what is left?
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Post by duff on Apr 18, 2007 18:29:14 GMT -5
Don't waste your time with people who make up numbers. We all know 58.482% of all statistics are made up on the spot. That would roughly be 6 out of 10. You and I forgot no evil occurred pre 1960 or '50 or wait maybe '62. Definately the '70s. Murder, rape, child molesting, and the likes were invented in the recent years. I stand with my statement. If all you can see is gloom and doom then that sucks for you. I am done. Nice duff...I'll buy you a round anytime... Make it a shot of prozac and you got a deal ;D
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Post by JohnSmiles on Apr 18, 2007 18:46:44 GMT -5
Here is something to think about. Almost everyone I know, including myself, has either BEEN on anti depressants at one time or has had at least one doctor attempt to prescribe an anti depressant of some type. Almost everyone I know! Almost everyone has had a doctor suggest ritalin(sp) for their kids. Now, maybe it is me causing everyone around me to go nuts or seek help, I cannot rule that out, but I can absolutely testify to the fact the doctors ARE PUSHING THIS STUFF off on EVERYONE! And I for one do not the the majority of American people are actually in need of MIND CONTROL.
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Post by tmarsh83 on Apr 18, 2007 18:52:33 GMT -5
I'm in exactly the other boat,John. I know of only two people in my family and group of friends that have ever had chemical smiles. And one of them shouldn't count because she is a weak minded fool. But other than that, I know hardly anyone...
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Post by duff on Apr 18, 2007 18:55:19 GMT -5
Some of the people I know... think the sky is falling.
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Post by JohnSmiles on Apr 18, 2007 18:57:08 GMT -5
I'm in exactly the other boat,John. I know of only two people in my family and group of friends that have ever had chemical smiles. And one of them shouldn't count because she is a weak minded fool. But other than that, I know hardly anyone... Not surprising actually, as I had no idea so many of my friends were on or had once been on the stuff. This last fall I became aware of just how many, and was shocked.
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Post by steiny on Apr 18, 2007 20:20:45 GMT -5
No way in heck 6 out of 10 kids are on Prozac. Maybe 6 out of 100 at best, and I doubt anyone can produce statistics to prove either.
In regards to those glorious, crime free, innocent 1950's and 60's. Seems to me there were a bunch of Americans hanging and burning blacks during that time period.
It aint all gloom and doom folks. This act is horrible, but the majority of American society goes about their day to day activities being generally respectful, and not harmful to others. I genuinely belive that most folks are decent, honest people.
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Post by drgreyhound on Apr 19, 2007 4:50:40 GMT -5
Looking for some sort of pattern, there doesn't seem to be much of one. The common denominator might be antisocial personality disorder...
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Post by DEERTRACKS on Apr 19, 2007 6:19:15 GMT -5
Question? Isn't it illegal to sell a firearm to a person that has a documented mental disorder, or has HIPAA prevented this info from being included in background checks? ??
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Post by drs on Apr 19, 2007 6:30:53 GMT -5
No way in heck 6 out of 10 kids are on Prozac. Maybe 6 out of 100 at best, and I doubt anyone can produce statistics to prove either. Not just "Prozac" but OTHER Psychological Drugs too are being prescribed way too often.
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Post by drs on Apr 19, 2007 6:31:57 GMT -5
Question? Isn't it illegal to sell a firearm to a person that has a documented mental disorder, or has HIPPA prevented this info from being included in background checks? ?? I believe that is one of the questions asked, when you fill out that form to buy a firearm.
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Post by drs on Apr 19, 2007 6:37:58 GMT -5
I'm in exactly the other boat,John. I know of only two people in my family and group of friends that have ever had chemical smiles. And one of them shouldn't count because she is a weak minded fool. But other than that, I know hardly anyone... Not surprising actually, as I had no idea so many of my friends were on or had once been on the stuff. This last fall I became aware of just how many, and was shocked. John, There is more people taking these types of medications than the average person realizes. If this weren't true then how come the drug companies are making so much money. My Sister, works for Eli Lilly and makes $90,000 per year! Currently here in Vanderburgh County the Suicide rate is above the national average in this year alone. Mostly kids & young adults.
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