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Post by JohnSmiles on Mar 20, 2007 12:30:44 GMT -5
John-I read much of your views on your blog, and I have to say-you`re pretty far out there. Thats a mouth full right there.....  You have said that before. What you haven't said is what part(s) of it you find to be so unrealistic. I have opinions on many things, and realize not all of them are likely to be true or even well founded. Many of them are not at all what they were at one time, as at one time I was in full support of Bush and comprehensive immigration reform. I am not afraid to state my opinions, and I will not need therapy when some are proven to be wrong. I update my website on occasion to reflect any changes. I do not share your opinions on much of anything I have read to date, other than reminding people to keep an eye on the elderly during the winter months, and the fact that was indeed one bruiser of a buck you got. I do not agree that OBR is nothing but a good thing, as I think it will simply bring in even more OOS hunters every year, and therefore promote more profit minded companies to buy up more Indiana land to rent hunting rights on. That is all I have against it to date. And I do not see a single reason to fight the PCR proposal. Whether I use one or not, it won't harm me and it will not restrict my choices in any way. It absolutely makes tons more sense than current the pistol laws. Am I far out there? Compared to some, yes. Compared to others, you and I are almost twins. Its all in your current perspective. |
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Post by swilk on Mar 20, 2007 15:14:49 GMT -5
Interesting. This is the first time I have read your blog ..... I agree with much of what you say with one giant exception.
You make it seem as though our government not only knew but also conspired to make 911 happen ..... am I reading and interpreting correctly?
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Post by JohnSmiles on Mar 20, 2007 16:08:35 GMT -5
Yes, you are.
Mostly anyway.
I do not for one second think that MOST had any knowledge whatsoever.
I do think that some knew all about the plot, and allowed it to happen unemcumbered.
And I also think some took action to make sure it was NOT impeded nor prevented as it should have been.
Reference our poorly explained LACK of air support in the area at the time.
Our government has experimented in the past with fully fueled, remote controlled passenger planes to be used as missiles.
Or that both the buildings were at their 'end of life' and would cost untold millions to demolish.
Or all the put options placed just before the attack, which have STILL NOT BEEN CLAIMED by those who placed them.
Or the huge insurance policy.....etc.
The list is extensive as to why.
No one should ever trust their government, or their motives.
Our founding fathers understood this fully.
Why is it that so many today can't?
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Post by indianahick on Mar 20, 2007 16:15:34 GMT -5
My Point of View here is . Did Bush's people know about an impending terrorist attack? Probably, recieved from the Comrads people, was it prioritized? Being the coward that Klinton was, is. More than likely not. Did he do anything the 5 times that we were attacked during his admin. Only once and then it was the FBI that apprehended the miscredents. The other 4? Shook his fist and postured and then went back to playing with Monica.
Irag & Saddam? Were we lied to? Probably. Who by? Start with the CIA. Were there WMD? Evidently not. Did Saddam provide a place for terrorists to train and receive aid. More than likely. If they paid he let them in.
Is it time to get out? yes. Why? Because we are fighting their cival war for them, it is time for them to fight their own battles and rule their own crappy country.
Would I ever vote for Hilly Klinton, No she is a socialist in my point of veiw. Obama? No again, couple of reasons, one being anti second amendment, secondly I am still not convenced about him not being muslim.
Should we be tracking down those terrorists. Yes. Anywhere them may hide, S&D, Personally I think a little 1860's western style justice is needed there. Treated the same way that cattle and horse theives were. Then and There.
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Post by swilk on Mar 20, 2007 16:28:00 GMT -5
I am usually not one to put my head in the sand ... but I hope ... down in my deepest intellect ... that our own Govt. did not conspire to make 911 a reality.
Im sure there was intelligence that was ignored ... Im sure there was intelligence that was not followed up on correctly .... but if any member of our Govt. KNEW it was going to happen and LET it ......... Jesus, I hope not.
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Post by JohnSmiles on Mar 20, 2007 16:37:58 GMT -5
I am usually not one to put my head in the sand ... but I hope ... down in my deepest intellect ... that our own Govt. did not conspire to make 911 a reality. Im sure there was intelligence that was ignored ... Im sure there was intelligence that was not followed up on correctly .... but if any member of our Govt. KNEW it was going to happen and LET it ......... Jesus, I hope not. Please understand I hope not also. I really do. But there is just way too much evidence to the contrary, and way too many unanswered questions. For instance, are you aware we spent 10's of MILLIONS more investigating Clintons bj, than was allowed to be spent on the entire 9/11 investigation? |
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Post by hunter480 on Mar 20, 2007 16:42:18 GMT -5
It is a fact that Cheney and Rumsfeld fed incorrect intelligence reports to Colin Powell prior to his UN speech, and they knew that the intelligence was invalid and unreliable relative to WMD per CIA director Tenet. That speech, along with similar garbage fed to Congress, was the basis for getting the US into war in Iraq. In other words, they LIED to Congress and the American people... PERIOD.... Whether you think Bush knew this is up to you, but the fact of the matter is that from the VP on down, this administration lied to support the argument to Congress to authorize military action based on a non-existent threat. It is a fact that CIA intelligence (which Bush/Cheney ignored) showed there was no Al Queda link to Saddam, and the real and sole threat at that time was in Afghanistan, not Iraq. If you want facts, suggest you download and read the Baker Hamilton report... the real threat to the US now is that our ground forces may not be capable of meeting new and bona fide threats (due to worn out equipment and low unit readiness levels), and that the US economy will be crippled from spending in Iraq, with $400B spent so far, and the bill continuing to roll up to the tune of $3-4B a month. Al Queda in Afghanistan is the real immediate threat to US security, and we need to focus our attention and resources there... BTW, on a related analogy... the Soviet Union didn't collapse as a result of lack of military hardware and manpower... it collapsed because that military outspent it's country's economy.... is there a lesson to be learned from that...  ? www.usip.org/isg/iraq_study_group_report/report/1206/index.html"The United States should not make an open-ended commitment to keep large numbers of American troops deployed in Iraq for three compelling reasons. First, and most importantly, the United States faces other security dangers in the world, and a continuing Iraqi commitment of American ground forces at present levels will leave no reserve available to meet other contingencies. On September 7, 2006, General James Jones, our NATO commander, called for more troops in Afghanistan, where U.S. and NATO forces are fighting a resurgence of al Qaeda and Taliban forces. The United States should respond positively to that request, and be prepared for other security contingencies, including those in Iran and North Korea. Second, the long-term commitment of American ground forces to Iraq at current levels is adversely affecting Army readiness, with less than a third of the Army units currently at high readiness levels. The Army is unlikely to be able to meet the next rotation of troops in Iraq without undesirable changes in its deployment practices. The Army is now considering breaking its compact with the National Guard and Reserves that limits the number of years that these citizen-soldiers can be deployed. Behind this short-term strain is the longer-term risk that the ground forces will be impaired in ways that will take years to reverse. And finally, an open-ended commitment of American forces would not provide the Iraqi government the incentive it needs to take the political actions that give Iraq the best chance of quelling sectarian violence. In the absence of such an incentive, the Iraqi government might continue to delay taking those difficult actions." jkd-I usually respect your posts and the information you share-this time is an exception however. How many times must it be said-British Intel, Jordanian Intel, Intel from inside Iraq, all stated frankly there were WMD`s. There have also been hints about ties to the terrorists, that much funding came from Iraq, and that Hussein was meeting semi-regularily with some we now know were involved in 9/11. As we don`t have access to sensative military documents, we may not know for some time. John-No-I don`t not agree with or approve of the so called patriot act, and that`s not the only thing I`ve disagreed with Bush on, (the FBI just recently was discovered to have been abusing the patriot act as a matter of fact-but just like Katrina, 9/11, and whatever else you all want to pile on, Bush was certainy responsible, right?) So many people absolutely loath Bush, not simply dislike him, but HATE him-and I strongly believe it`s mainly because he`s a Christian. But if you believe all this conspiracy hogwash, then you have to believe all of the LAPD was conspiring against poor OJ, and he didn`t murder anyone, clinton was a great President-Wagging my finger-I did not have sexual relations with that woman........-and oh yeah, the Easter Bunny is real. Paleeze. |
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Post by greghopper on Mar 20, 2007 16:43:07 GMT -5
I am usually not one to put my head in the sand ... but I hope ... down in my deepest intellect ... that our own Govt. did not conspire to make 911 a reality. Im sure there was intelligence that was ignored ... Im sure there was intelligence that was not followed up on correctly .... but if any member of our Govt. KNEW it was going to happen and LET it ......... Jesus, I hope not. Please understand I hope not also. I really do. But there is just way too much evidence to the contrary, and way too many unanswered questions. Give us some examples...John!!! The BJ thing is not a example...Thats a SPIN.... |
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Post by JohnSmiles on Mar 20, 2007 16:59:07 GMT -5
Please understand I hope not also. I really do. But there is just way too much evidence to the contrary, and way too many unanswered questions. Give us some examples...John!!! The BJ thing is not a example...Thats a SPIN.... Spin? No, a 'spin' is where a person takes what was said by someone else, and twists it to make it sound as if the other person said something they didn't. Here, try these: www.ny911truth.org/www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20050724164122860www.tvnewslies.org/html/9_11_facts.htmlwww.oilempire.us/911.htmlWhile I cannot claim to reading all these sites, and thousands of others, have to say, I have read enough to conclude all is not as it seems here. If you actually want to look into it, these should be ample. |
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Post by hunter480 on Mar 20, 2007 17:00:52 GMT -5
I am usually not one to put my head in the sand ... but I hope ... down in my deepest intellect ... that our own Govt. did not conspire to make 911 a reality. Im sure there was intelligence that was ignored ... Im sure there was intelligence that was not followed up on correctly .... but if any member of our Govt. KNEW it was going to happen and LET it ......... Jesus, I hope not. Please understand I hope not also. I really do. But there is just way too much evidence to the contrary, and way too many unanswered questions. For instance, are you aware we spent 10's of MILLIONS more investigating Clintons bj, than was allowed to be spent on the entire 9/11 investigation? Ahhhh-good John-I knew it was coming sooner or later-the ol`, the Republicans are running the world with the help of big oil, the mob, and Elvis-and they`ve conspired to make us THINK that clinton lied under oath about his relationships, misusing law enforcement agencies to procure women, Whitewater, Bush caused Katrina, Bush hindered FEMA`s efforts because he hates black people, bla bla bla. Again John-you are without question entitled to your opinion, beliefs and perspectives-but I have to tell you, it sounds just like so much Bush bashing-and you`re joing an incredibly long list of folks who don`t have ANY credibility with me-Whoopie Goldberg, Dixie Chicks, George Cloonie, Jessica Lange, Rosie O`Donnel, Michael Moore, all of the Baldwins, Bill Mahr, teddy kennedy, john kerry, hillary clinton, chuck schumer, -and I`m going to resist the urge to say that you`re as Treasonous as all those good folks, but you`re keeping some fine company. john kennedy was banging marilyn monroe in the whitehouse while his classy wife was in the same wing-he`s considered a great President, (not by me), slick willie never met a woman he wouldn`t try to have some law enforcement agency herd to him, lied about all of his business dealings and earnings that we know of, did absolutely nothing to take advantage of the Intel HE already had on Bin Laden, and he`s considered to have been a good president, even though he was impeached, (not considered a good President or human being by me), but yet, Bush, a professed Christain has helped perpetrate on the American people, the most horrendous atrocity to ever take place on American soil? Sorry John-not buying an ounce of it. Bush has made some mistakes, Bush has made some of the most offensive and threatening decisions I could imagine, but to believe for one second that Bush has purposely attempted to harm this country or it`s citizens simply borders on insanity. |
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Post by LawrenceCoBowhunter on Mar 20, 2007 17:09:30 GMT -5
Sounds like my english comp class...I still would like to know what ol' Sandy" Burgler" was stuffing down his pants..trying to cover Cliton's rear??
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Post by JohnSmiles on Mar 20, 2007 17:15:40 GMT -5
It is a fact that Cheney and Rumsfeld fed incorrect intelligence reports to Colin Powell prior to his UN speech, and they knew that the intelligence was invalid and unreliable relative to WMD per CIA director Tenet. That speech, along with similar garbage fed to Congress, was the basis for getting the US into war in Iraq. In other words, they LIED to Congress and the American people... PERIOD.... Whether you think Bush knew this is up to you, but the fact of the matter is that from the VP on down, this administration lied to support the argument to Congress to authorize military action based on a non-existent threat. It is a fact that CIA intelligence (which Bush/Cheney ignored) showed there was no Al Queda link to Saddam, and the real and sole threat at that time was in Afghanistan, not Iraq. If you want facts, suggest you download and read the Baker Hamilton report... the real threat to the US now is that our ground forces may not be capable of meeting new and bona fide threats (due to worn out equipment and low unit readiness levels), and that the US economy will be crippled from spending in Iraq, with $400B spent so far, and the bill continuing to roll up to the tune of $3-4B a month. Al Queda in Afghanistan is the real immediate threat to US security, and we need to focus our attention and resources there... BTW, on a related analogy... the Soviet Union didn't collapse as a result of lack of military hardware and manpower... it collapsed because that military outspent it's country's economy.... is there a lesson to be learned from that... ? www.usip.org/isg/iraq_study_group_report/report/1206/index.html"The United States should not make an open-ended commitment to keep large numbers of American troops deployed in Iraq for three compelling reasons. First, and most importantly, the United States faces other security dangers in the world, and a continuing Iraqi commitment of American ground forces at present levels will leave no reserve available to meet other contingencies. On September 7, 2006, General James Jones, our NATO commander, called for more troops in Afghanistan, where U.S. and NATO forces are fighting a resurgence of al Qaeda and Taliban forces. The United States should respond positively to that request, and be prepared for other security contingencies, including those in Iran and North Korea. Second, the long-term commitment of American ground forces to Iraq at current levels is adversely affecting Army readiness, with less than a third of the Army units currently at high readiness levels. The Army is unlikely to be able to meet the next rotation of troops in Iraq without undesirable changes in its deployment practices. The Army is now considering breaking its compact with the National Guard and Reserves that limits the number of years that these citizen-soldiers can be deployed. Behind this short-term strain is the longer-term risk that the ground forces will be impaired in ways that will take years to reverse. And finally, an open-ended commitment of American forces would not provide the Iraqi government the incentive it needs to take the political actions that give Iraq the best chance of quelling sectarian violence. In the absence of such an incentive, the Iraqi government might continue to delay taking those difficult actions." John-No-I don`t not agree with or approve of the so called patriot act, and that`s not the only thing I`ve disagreed with Bush on, (the FBI just recently was discovered to have been abusing the patriot act as a matter of fact-but just like Katrina, 9/11, and whatever else you all want to pile on, Bush was certainy responsible, right?) So many people absolutely loath Bush, not simply dislike him, but HATE him-and I strongly believe it`s mainly because he`s a Christian. But if you believe all this conspiracy hogwash, then you have to believe all of the LAPD was conspiring against poor OJ, and he didn`t murder anyone, clinton was a great President-Wagging my finger-I did not have sexual relations with that woman........-and oh yeah, the Easter Bunny is real. Paleeze. I am also Christian, but I know not all Christians are good people. And you are free to consider it all hogwash. But explain to me why I would HAVE to believe any of your above bs simply because I don't think everything reported about 9/11 was true? Ad Hominem attacks look just as poor from you as from anyone else. |
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Post by jkd on Mar 20, 2007 17:16:50 GMT -5
480 - will get back to you on details (heading out of the office now), but there was "old intel" and "new intel" on WMD's... at one point, clearly he had gas, because he used it on the Kurds... but the later stuff that I'm talking about... Powell and his vial of powder... that stuff was all PR crap put out by Cheney/Rumsfeld, and no Brit intel at that point could not confirm what they were claiming...
Remember, we had Saddam "in the box" with the north/south no-fly zones and the USN had the sea access locked down... there was no rush to go in when we did and how we did, and that's the point... Jack Keane has been quoted specifically referencing that our intel was flat wrong... Frontline did an entire episode on Cheney and the WMD fantasy act...
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Post by hunter480 on Mar 20, 2007 17:22:29 GMT -5
John-No-I don`t not agree with or approve of the so called patriot act, and that`s not the only thing I`ve disagreed with Bush on, (the FBI just recently was discovered to have been abusing the patriot act as a matter of fact-but just like Katrina, 9/11, and whatever else you all want to pile on, Bush was certainy responsible, right?) So many people absolutely loath Bush, not simply dislike him, but HATE him-and I strongly believe it`s mainly because he`s a Christian. But if you believe all this conspiracy hogwash, then you have to believe all of the LAPD was conspiring against poor OJ, and he didn`t murder anyone, clinton was a great President-Wagging my finger-I did not have sexual relations with that woman........-and oh yeah, the Easter Bunny is real. Paleeze. I am also Christian, but I know not all Christians are good people. And you are free to consider it all hogwash. But explain to me why I would HAVE to believe any of your above bs simply because I don't think everything reported about 9/11 was true? Ad Hominem attacks look just as poor from you as from anyone else. John- You want to claim that I`m working based on emotions rather than facts? You have zero facts to support your claims of conspiracy and collusion between the White House and whom ever-it`s all shadows and innuendo. Seriously John, no disrespect intended whatsoever, but I can`t buy into this stuff-not for a second. |
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Post by JohnSmiles on Mar 20, 2007 17:26:43 GMT -5
Please understand I hope not also. I really do. But there is just way too much evidence to the contrary, and way too many unanswered questions. For instance, are you aware we spent 10's of MILLIONS more investigating Clintons bj, than was allowed to be spent on the entire 9/11 investigation? Ahhhh-good John-I knew it was coming sooner or later-the ol`, the Republicans are running the world with the help of big oil, the mob, and Elvis-and they`ve conspired to make us THINK that clinton lied under oath about his relationships, misusing law enforcement agencies to procure women, Whitewater, Bush caused Katrina, Bush hindered FEMA`s efforts because he hates black people, bla bla bla. Again John-you are without question entitled to your opinion, beliefs and perspectives-but I have to tell you, it sounds just like so much Bush bashing-and you`re joing an incredibly long list of folks who don`t have ANY credibility with me-Whoopie Goldberg, Dixie Chicks, George Cloonie, Jessica Lange, Rosie O`Donnel, Michael Moore, all of the Baldwins, Bill Mahr, teddy kennedy, john kerry, hillary clinton, chuck schumer, -and I`m going to resist the urge to say that you`re as Treasonous as all those good folks, but you`re keeping some fine company. john kennedy was banging marilyn monroe in the whitehouse while his classy wife was in the same wing-he`s considered a great President, (not by me), slick willie never met a woman he wouldn`t try to have some law enforcement agency herd to him, lied about all of his business dealings and earnings that we know of, did absolutely nothing to take advantage of the Intel HE already had on Bin Laden, and he`s considered to have been a good president, even though he was impeached, (not considered a good President or human being by me), but yet, Bush, a professed Christain has helped perpetrate on the American people, the most horrendous atrocity to ever take place on American soil? Sorry John-not buying an ounce of it. Bush has made some mistakes, Bush has made some of the most offensive and threatening decisions I could imagine, but to believe for one second that Bush has purposely attempted to harm this country or it`s citizens simply borders on insanity. You apparently have nothing to offer the debate, or you could remain civil and address what was actually said, instead of flying off in left field making statements that apply to nothing stated here. You think what you want. Bush has destroyed America more than any other nation ever could. |
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Post by LawrenceCoBowhunter on Mar 20, 2007 17:31:07 GMT -5
I think about 99% of all this revolves around hatered for GWB..These people will not be happy until they tear him down,lies or wahtever it takes..Who are they going to jump on in 08?How many think there are terrorist "sleeper cells" right here ready to go when called on?I believe it's a real threat..
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Post by JohnSmiles on Mar 20, 2007 17:50:19 GMT -5
I am also Christian, but I know not all Christians are good people. And you are free to consider it all hogwash. But explain to me why I would HAVE to believe any of your above bs simply because I don't think everything reported about 9/11 was true? Ad Hominem attacks look just as poor from you as from anyone else. John- You want to claim that I`m working based on emotions rather than facts? You have zero facts to support your claims of conspiracy and collusion between the White House and whom ever-it`s all shadows and innuendo. Seriously John, no disrespect intended whatsoever, but I can`t buy into this stuff-not for a second. No disrespect intended eh? BS. There was nothing in either of your posts BUT disrespect, mockery and inuendo, and you full well know it. So save the phony 'no disrespect intended' lip service routine. |
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Post by JohnSmiles on Mar 20, 2007 17:53:28 GMT -5
I think about 99% of all this revolves around hatered for GWB..These people will not be happy until they tear him down,lies or wahtever it takes..Who are they going to jump on in 08?How many think there are terrorist "sleeper cells" right here ready to go when called on?I believe it's a real threat.. I don't think so. I think most of this revolves around all the holes in the 9/11 story. The evident hatred for Bush by many is something that only really started showing up a couple of years ago. This 'reopen 911' movement has been going on much longer. |
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Post by hunter480 on Mar 20, 2007 17:59:24 GMT -5
John- You want to claim that I`m working based on emotions rather than facts? You have zero facts to support your claims of conspiracy and collusion between the White House and whom ever-it`s all shadows and innuendo. Seriously John, no disrespect intended whatsoever, but I can`t buy into this stuff-not for a second. No disrespect intended eh? BS. There was nothing in either of your posts BUT disrespect, mockery and inuendo, and you full well know it. So save the phony 'no disrespect intended' lip service routine. Fine John-I explained that I didn`t mean any disrespect-you`ve rejected that, ok. I simply won`t respond to any more of your posts. I really am sorry you feel that way, but it`s your call. |
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Post by LawrenceCoBowhunter on Mar 20, 2007 18:00:38 GMT -5
I try to see both sides of this,But I just don't see the other side..On the WMD's,how do we know that Saddam didn't move them out of the country?Or that they are buried deep in the sand somewhere?
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