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Post by RoadKill on Jul 28, 2006 7:29:20 GMT -5
It seems a lot of the "discussion" about OBR and rifle cartridges mention the need to manage the deer poplulation. What about depredation permits? Are they a good tool to manage deer poplulation? Can someone point me to depredation permit stats? That is, how many? Counties? Thanks in advance
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Post by Woody Williams on Jul 28, 2006 7:42:37 GMT -5
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Post by birddog on Jul 28, 2006 8:04:59 GMT -5
I am totally against the use of these permits for a couple reasons,one being the fawns are not weaned as of yet as Woody has said but also the type of firearms used to take the deer with,I know for a fact that here in S.E. Indiana that center fires are used and I think that is totally wrong and should be turned in everytime this is either saw or heard taking place.Plus I know for a fact that large bucks are also taken at this time and never accounted for.
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Post by rmc on Jul 28, 2006 8:22:21 GMT -5
Re: Depredation Permits « Reply #2 on Today at 9:04am »
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am totally against the use of these permits for a couple reasons,one being the fawns are not weaned as of yet as Woody has said but also the type of firearms used to take the deer with,I know for a fact that here in S.E. Indiana that center fires are used and I think that is totally wrong and should be turned in everytime this is either saw or heard taking place.Plus I know for a fact that large bucks are also taken at this time and never accounted for.
If you know this is going on are you reporting it to the DNR?
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Post by birddog on Jul 28, 2006 9:25:08 GMT -5
You bet I report it!!!!!!! As a landowner and a hunter I feel obligated to do so.....
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Post by kevin1 on Jul 28, 2006 12:42:50 GMT -5
I wonder how many were really shot , those numbers are less than a drop in the bucket . I'd bet my dog that the actual number was much higher .
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Post by RoadKill on Jul 28, 2006 13:19:39 GMT -5
Well, I don't like the whole idea of the depredation permits. However, I doubt the landowners like paying for my pleasure.
As far as the fawns and bucks; I suspect they do damage also. I don't think the seed companies have come up with fawn or buck resistant crops.
Maybe the solution is to have some early "antlerless" seasons. Maybe one weekend a month, May-September.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jul 28, 2006 13:43:33 GMT -5
I'll just really what I have heard about in this area.
I can't say that it is a fact though in all cases.
We had observed 5 dandy bucks coming out in a bean field. They usually came out after a dozen or so does/fawns came out.
I "heard" that the farmer got nuisance deer permits and all five bucks were dropped by his "hunters". No does.. just the bucks.
Which brings up anotehr question - Could not the farmer sell access rights to these "hunters" and then provide them with permits? Velvet bucks are a hot commodity to some.
A friend of mine had been watching some deer in a bean field for about two weeks . A really nice buck usually came out after the does/fawns. He saw the deer every evening for over week. One evening he drove up to see the deer again. When he eased over a rise no deer were in the field. That was unusal. He then spotted someone dressed in camo attempting to load the buck on an ATV. He glassed the individual and he had a handgun on his side. When he questioned him he said he had a permit from the farmer.
Now, in both cases, and I would have to say in a majority of cases, the bucks never enter the field until way after the does. So any one using a nuisance deer permit has to be passing does.
So it is NOT about culling the herd as much as it is early buck hunting. I know that they are "supposed" to turn in the antlers, but I'll bet that is not happening very often.
Back years ago the COs confiscated some velvet antlers at Melanie Buse's taxidermy shop in Holland.
A farmer in our area told me personally that he shoots as many as he wants no matter how many permits he gets. Why don't I turn him in? I asked the CO and he said that it would be my word against his unless he was caught in the act.
My problem with the nuisance deer permits in July is the late fawns. If they are going to shoot the does then they should shoot the fawns too. No animal should be allowed to starve to death.
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Post by birddog on Jul 28, 2006 14:43:03 GMT -5
A farmer in our area told me personally that he shoots as many as he wants no matter how many permits he gets. Why don't I turn him in? I asked the CO and he said that it would be my word against his unless he was caught in the act. Woody on the above are they watching him or is this something that the game wardens just turn their head on? ??Which I have seen done also........
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Post by Woody Williams on Jul 28, 2006 14:44:52 GMT -5
A farmer in our area told me personally that he shoots as many as he wants no matter how many permits he gets. Why don't I turn him in? I asked the CO and he said that it would be my word against his unless he was caught in the act. Woody on the above are they watching him or is this something that the game wardens just turn their head on? ??Which I have seen done also........ I cant say either way as I do not know for sure. I do know that our COs are stretched pretty thin down here. .
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Post by polypros on Aug 10, 2006 10:59:31 GMT -5
Last year in Southeast Indiana I heard of on landowner getting 10 doe permits and all of the tags were filled. I hunt that particular land, but didn't ask the landowner if that was true (his neighbor told me about it). I know for a fact that you couldn't kill 10 does prior to hunting season unless you were doing it at night with a spotlight and rifle. I will try to find out more and post what I find. If they want to thin the antlerless heard, why not pass out free archery tags or firearm tags that could only be used during the season?
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Post by mbogo on Aug 10, 2006 11:27:38 GMT -5
It is my understanding that pretty much anything goes as far as the filling of depredation permits. It has nothing to do with hunting and everything to do with simply killing deer. If there is truly a need for depredation permits then I think the should be for late season and doe only.
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Post by Hawkeye on Aug 10, 2006 11:34:09 GMT -5
Last year in Southeast Indiana I heard of on landowner getting 10 doe permits and all of the tags were filled. I hunt that particular land, but didn't ask the landowner if that was true (his neighbor told me about it). I know for a fact that you couldn't kill 10 does prior to hunting season unless you were doing it at night with a spotlight and rifle. I will try to find out more and post what I find. If they want to thin the antlerless heard, why not pass out free archery tags or firearm tags that could only be used during the season? Would just like to know,why, as you state it is a fact you could not kill 10 does without a spotlight at night.Rifles are legal with the depredation permits!
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 10, 2006 11:53:36 GMT -5
It is my understanding that pretty much anything goes as far as the filling of depredation permits. It has nothing to do with hunting and everything to do with simply killing deer. If there is truly a need for depredation permits then I think the should be for late season and doe only. Night hunting with a spotlight is not OK. Not saying it doesn't happen, but they would get nailed if caught. .
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Post by Decatur on Aug 10, 2006 12:07:35 GMT -5
I think that it would benefit the DNR and the farmers if they sold doe permits for $5-$10. More people would harvest does, plus the DNR would make a little money. They could even have an early, 2 week, doe only season in September.
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Post by MIG on Aug 11, 2006 2:18:00 GMT -5
To everyone against the DEER DAMAGE CONTROL Permits: Have any of you guys trapped/killed a raccoon, opposum, skunk, etc. in the spring or summer that is damaging YOUR property? If you have one in your attic, your not going to wait until trapping season comes in several months later to trap it, are you? The damage will already be done!
The purpose of these permits have nothing to do with "culling" the herd of deer in Indiana. They are for landowners that are experiencing damage to THEIR property. (primarily crop damage) The permits are issued when the damage is occuring, and the problem can be taken care of at that time, not several months later. 90-95% of the landowners that get them allow hunting on their property in the fall also. Trust me, they don't just hand them out like candy....an inspection by a biologist is required before a permit is issued. These permits have nothing to do with "hunting". "Hunting" is done in the fall. Deer "killed" under a DEER DAMAGE CONTROL Permit, are taken to reduce the amount of damage that a landowner is receiving. Its not any different than trapping coons in the spring.......they have young also.
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Post by solohunter on Aug 11, 2006 6:02:26 GMT -5
We have applied for permits before, we came up about 100$ short of qualifying for them(though I disagree with the assessment). I have read the comments here and I whole heartdly agree with MIG and the biologists who have structured the system. It is a necessary tool. Why did I disagree with the biologist in my instance? Simply, the Kendallville Municipal Airport which borders one of our properties was granted permits at one time. They never used them. Where are those deer living that cross the runway and get hit by airplanes? We have property on BOTH sides of the airport where the deer eat,live and bed. So I thought it odd that they did not look at the whole picture. That is the way it goes sometimes. I have talked with the airport manager at length about the deer and if there is ever a problem again I offerd to administer the permits for them(if that is legal). That is why (he told me)they did not use the permits the last time, too much hassle. Finding hunters, etc. blah, blah..sounded like too much laziness.. Solohunter
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Post by jstalljon on Aug 11, 2006 6:54:06 GMT -5
We have applied for permits before, we came up about 100$ short of qualifying for them(though I disagree with the assessment). I have read the comments here and I whole heartdly agree with MIG and the biologists who have structured the system. It is a necessary tool. Why did I disagree with the biologist in my instance? Simply, the Kendallville Municipal Airport which borders one of our properties was granted permits at one time. They never used them. Where are those deer living that cross the runway and get hit by airplanes? We have property on BOTH sides of the airport where the deer eat,live and bed. So I thought it odd that they did not look at the whole picture. That is the way it goes sometimes. I have talked with the airport manager at length about the deer and if there is ever a problem again I offerd to administer the permits for them(if that is legal). That is why (he told me)they did not use the permits the last time, too much hassle. Finding hunters, etc. blah, blah..sounded like too much laziness.. Solohunter K'ville airport is about 30 minutes from my office.....I'll help you manage those propeller busting deer Solo!!! ;D
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Post by hunter480 on Aug 13, 2006 17:32:47 GMT -5
To everyone against the DEER DAMAGE CONTROL Permits: Have any of you guys trapped/killed a raccoon, opposum, skunk, etc. in the spring or summer that is damaging YOUR property? If you have one in your attic, your not going to wait until trapping season comes in several months later to trap it, are you? The damage will already be done! The purpose of these permits have nothing to do with "culling" the herd of deer in Indiana. They are for landowners that are experiencing damage to THEIR property. (primarily crop damage) The permits are issued when the damage is occuring, and the problem can be taken care of at that time, not several months later. 90-95% of the landowners that get them allow hunting on their property in the fall also. Trust me, they don't just hand them out like candy....an inspection by a biologist is required before a permit is issued. These permits have nothing to do with "hunting". "Hunting" is done in the fall. Deer "killed" under a DEER DAMAGE CONTROL Permit, are taken to reduce the amount of damage that a landowner is receiving. Its not any different than trapping coons in the spring.......they have young also. Sorry-still against `em.
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