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Post by Woody Williams on Oct 5, 2006 22:43:05 GMT -5
Wisconsin lawmaker urges arming teachers
MADISON, Wis. (AP) — A state lawmaker, worried about a recent string of deadly school shootings, suggested arming teachers, principals and other school personnel as a safety measure and a deterrent.
It might not be politically correct, but it has worked effectively in other countries, Republican Rep. Frank Lasee said Wednesday.
"To make our schools safe for our students to learn, all options should be on the table," he said. "Israel and Thailand have well-trained teachers carrying weapons and keeping their children safe from harm. It can work in Wisconsin."
In Thailand, where officials have been waging a bloody fight with Muslim separatists for the last two years, some teachers carry weapons for self defense as they are viewed as part of the government. In Israel, teachers are not allowed to carry weapons in the school, but security guards at the entrances are armed.
Lasee said he planned to introduce legislation that would allow school personnel to carry concealed weapons. He stressed that it would hinge on school staff members getting strict training on the use of the weapons, and he acknowledged he would have to work around a federal law that bans guns on school grounds.
The director of school safety for Milwaukee Public Schools, Pete Pochowski, opposed the idea.
"Statistically, the safest place for a child to be is in school," Pochowski said. "We have problems in our schools, but not to the point where we need to arm our teachers and principals."
Last week, a 15-year-old Wisconsin student was arrested in the shooting death of Weston Schools Principal John Klang. The criminal complaint said the teen brought guns to school to confront students, teachers and the principal.
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Post by hunter480 on Oct 6, 2006 1:40:10 GMT -5
Oh man-I have several things I want to sink my teeth into here Woody.
First, as far as the Israelis go-they are BAD TO THE BONE. They’ve been dealing with, and fighting muslim extremists for decades, and they are truly BAD PEOPLE-they don`t take no $hit.
As for the school administrator who stated that, statistically, schools are the safest place for kids to be-well, as we saw with the Russian incident, as well as the recent Amish school shooting, it only takes ONE instance of a wacko gone bad for kids lives to be lost. And it`s absolutely asinine since if you told parents that they could guarantee the safety of their kids via ANY other means, they’d be all over it-but since we`re talking firearms here, the parents don`t want to hear about it. It`s really sad.
Thank the Lord that our kids are safe because we aren`t afraid to offend someone by packing.
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Post by danf on Oct 6, 2006 5:51:58 GMT -5
Being married to a teacher, I'd have to say that teachers carrying guns isn't exactly a good idea.
With class sizes ranging anywhere from 15 to 30, it is very hard for any teacher (even the best ones) to keep an eye on every student at all times. It certainly wouldn't be hard for a couple of kids to overtake a teacher and disarm him/her and then use the gun themselves. If the gun is kept in a locked drawer, that won't solve anything- just look at the kid on the SW side of Indy that swiped the keys to the principals car the other day.....
I'm all for keeping the right to bear arms, but teachers carrying really isn't the solution...
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Post by Russ Koon on Oct 6, 2006 8:22:13 GMT -5
Does anyone remember the case a couple years ago in (I think) Tennessee, where a student brought a rifle into the school and was shooting the place up? This was shortly after the case in Arkansas where the kid stole his grandfather's rifle and shot at the school from outside, that we all heard about every night for quite a while. In the Tennessee (?) case, a teacher who also happened to be a pistol enthusiast had his target automatic in his locked truck in the school parking lot, in violation of the law. He retrieved it and confronted the student, disarming him and ending the drama without firing a shot. The authorities there had the good sense to not push the issue regarding the teacher's illegal possession.
I believe there was also a case around the same time when a teacher or administrator in (?) New Jersey was carrying concealed at a school function after regular hours and used his weapon todisarm some punks who were shooting or threatening with their weapons. Can't recall the details on that one, but I remember reading about it as another case of armed citizens in charge of kids using their arms to defend the kids, in violation of the laws that are supposed to protect them.
I strongly suspect that if we've heard of two cases, there have probably been a good many others. It was surprising to me that these two were treated properly and not arrested and imprisoned for having their guns on school grounds or at a school function. So, most likely, common sense has had armed teachers protectiong our kids already in more cases than we will know.
I wouldn't be in favor of REQUIRING teachers to be armed, in any case. Those who aren't comfortable with firearms will seldom be anything but a danger to themselves and others after a few days of even intensive training. Those who are comfortable with firearms and who have spent extensive time using them, and who also have taken the course for proper use in school situations, would be a much more effective deterrent to someone bent on harming the students than most of the other protective measures that have been taken.
What good is a metal detector if the person responsible for keeping the shooter out is unarmed?
That's like those idiotic commercials for the home protection devices that make that really scary whooping noise and place a phone call to the home. Might spook some amateur, but I seriously doubt that any real bad guy will be diverted from his purpose. Are we to believe that the mom would tell the caller that there was a bad guy there with a gun to her kid's head, or would she tell him that the alarm was triggered by mistake and everything was OK?
Or would she already be laying in a pool of blood while the hood was carrying the loot to his car, knowing he had a few minutes before the police could possibly get there? Like the school metal detectors, the alarm systems may be worth having for the amateurs and kids they might turn away, but that momma shooing the kids up the stairs and hugging them while she talks to the alarm company should be taking the time to grab the 12-gauge before answering the phone.
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Post by DEERTRACKS on Oct 6, 2006 12:30:20 GMT -5
The school systems need to start including big, ex-military, bouncer type, security people in their budgets.
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Post by Hawkeye on Oct 6, 2006 13:51:30 GMT -5
Nothing personal,but knowing a few teachers,would not think giving all teachers weapons would be a good idea.
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Post by danf on Oct 7, 2006 20:52:38 GMT -5
I doubt any possible legislation would require teachers to carry. If anything it would probably give them the option to. I still don't think that allowing teachers to be armed would be a good idea. With the cases that Russ mentions, the perps didn't know that anyone was armed, which is the way it should be. If teachers are allowed to carry, trust me, the kids will quickly figure out which ones have guns and which ones don't. It wouldn't take them very long to figure out that an attempt could be made to overpower the teacher. It might be successfull, it might not be, but an attempt could still be made. Why bring a gun to school, if there's already one there?? If class sizes could be reduced to where they SHOULD be (WAY under 20 per class), then there would be much less need to have security in the schools. With smaller class sizes, the teachers could give more individualized attention and actually get a feel for what the kids are doing. With the larger classes (25++) that are in probably EVERY public school the teachers can NOT get to every student all the time. My contention is that rather than spending money arming teachers, the money would be better spent on reducing class sizes.... Now, I could definately support the use of Tazors in schools.  |
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