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Post by lugnutz on Jul 25, 2006 21:48:24 GMT -5
H.H., you crack me up. At the end of page 10 you post up about manufactured bucks, making it ealier for "less skilled" hunters to kill mature bucks, and other pure nonsense drivel. That is killer. You know, I can't stand hunting as a competion and I'm not going to bone on you on how you hunt or what what a mighty hunter you are or are not. But you come on here and claim how OBR makes it easier for a lesser skilled hunter and I have a real problem with that on two levels. First is SO FRICKING WHAT if it does. You know, I've put my share of big bucks on the wall and no, I've not entered them into the books, I don't care about that. For me, hunting anymore goes way beyond my needs. We need hunter recruitment, so if OBR makes it easier for rookies or youth to score on any buck, let alone a mature buck, then HECK YES that is a good thing. Second problem I have with your statement is that you insinuate (either directly or indirectly) how a two buck hunter is a better hunter than a guy like me who is a one or none buck hunter. Again, I don't think hunting is a competition, but you sir are way off base. You have no clue how hard I hunt or how hard other diehard hunters in support to OBR devote to hunting mature whitetails. Your 7 does and no buck is more impressive than my 4 does and no bucks for sure, but did you pass up over 30 DIFFERENT bucks at 30 yards or less in one season hunting one particular deer, only to have your buddy shoot it and the culmination of that event was as good if not better than if I myself had shot the deer? You want hunting as a competition? Go apply for the dart tour. You want to really hunt and be respected, start treating others with respect and work on recruitment rather than focusing on the crying that the state took something away from you. To the others - Again, I've heard it that the multi weapon bowhunter lost opportunity. NOTHING of the sort happened. If you pass on a buck with your bow only to hold out your buck tag with a gun, that is your choice and your choice only. There is an old saying, never pass on a buck on the first day of season that you would shoot on the last day. If that 130's buck was not good enough for you to take with your bow and you're going to hold out for a bigger one with a gun, then that 130's buck was not good enough for you to shoot to begin with. You had the opportunity, you just passed. The opportunity was there. Two bucks is antler worship, just admit it. Why is it so easy to lable one buck limit supporters as antler worshippers yet you have trouble looking in a mirror and seeing that two sets of antlers is TWICE as many as one set? But yet you can brag about passing up 30 DIFFERENT bucks, just to have your buddy shoot the 1 that you wanted! What are you getting at here? When is 90% of big deer shot? If your gonna hunt a buck, when would you hunt it? Do you, or don't you agree that a 100 class whitetail killed with a bow, is equal to a 140 class gun kill? Not sure about you, but i don't set my season out to kill a 100 class buck. Therefore, i now have to pass that 100 class buck in bow season and hope for something larger in gun season, sure its my decision to do so, but its not something i would do if we went back to a archery AND firearm buck tag. This post is probably a waste of space, knowing that you pass up p&y bucks on a daily basis. Then why is it, that the numbers increased immediately in gun season kills, when the OBR took affect? Do you not think its odd how archery kills went down, and firearm kills went up? Sure i can pass up 100 bucks during archery season, but remember i would have only taken one of them to begin with, regarless of how many i'd pass up, so its only one that i'm actually passing up, not several. Lug
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Post by cedararrow on Jul 26, 2006 7:15:27 GMT -5
To all that are complaining about the multi-hunter getting screwed.
IF YOU ARE A MULTI-SEASON HUNTER, THEN YOU HUNT ALL YEAR. IF YOU DONT KILL YOUR BUCK IN ARCHERY YOU HUNT HIM IN SHOTGUN, IF YOU DONT KILL HIM IN SHOTGUN, YOU HUNT HIM IN MUZZLELOADER, IF YOU DONT KILL HIM IN MUZZLELOADER YOU GIVE IT ONE MORE SHOT IN LATE ARCHERY. YOU ARE A MULTI-SEASON HUNTER. How can you say that just cause you pass up a deer in archery season that you are getting screwed? If that 150" deer were to walk by on opening day would you shoot it.... Darn skippy you would if it was the biggest deer of your lifetime... What would you do for the rest of your season. Watch other bucks grow and shoot does with your other seaons. Take the time to take a nephew or neighbor kid out to be in the outdoors.... There is no limit to what you can do with the rest of your year. Continue to hunt and really pay attention now, study different things you never paid attention too, make yourself even better for next year. If you do kill that deer early, you arent just going to sit in the house for the rest of the year are you.... if you do then you are NOT a multi-season hunter. You had a succesful season! you killed a monster... you were happy when you shot him why shouldnt you be happy at the end of the year?? If you arent happy with it and want more then how am I the one that is "antler worshipping" it really doesnt make any sense to this mellon of mine. Maybe someone can explain it to me.
Or maybe some of you already know everything there is to know about hunting. You guys are masters and need not spend the time paying attention to deer.... To you congrats can you sign my DVD cover please.
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Post by racktracker on Jul 26, 2006 7:35:20 GMT -5
To all that are complaining about the multi-hunter getting screwed. .............................
Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water.
Give it a REST, please??
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Post by dec on Jul 26, 2006 8:01:20 GMT -5
When is 90% of big deer shot? If your gonna hunt a buck, when would you hunt it? Do you, or don't you agree that a 100 class whitetail killed with a bow, is equal to a 140 class gun kill? Not sure about you, but i don't set my season out to kill a 100 class buck. Therefore, i now have to pass that 100 class buck in bow season and hope for something larger in gun season, sure its my decision to do so, but its not something i would do if we went back to a archery AND firearm buck tag. Thank you Lug, you just proved my point exactly. How can it not be about antler worship to go to a two buck system when you are complaining about passing a 100" buck. You said you don't set your season out to kill that deer. So then why when that deer walks past your stand do you question the fact you are not going to shoot it? You admit that is not the deer you want. Shooting it, only to shoot a larger one later is 100% about antlers. If it were not, then you could have simply plunked the doe that probably walked through before that 100" deer. You can not sit here and argue that it is not about antlers when a two buck system clearly is ... please re-read your own words. OK, I promise, I'm done this time. ;D
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Post by Decatur on Jul 26, 2006 10:32:31 GMT -5
From the 2002 deer outlook
“About half the people wanted us to make some attempt to provide more trophy animals, and the one buck rule is a response to the public request. It was not viewed as a biological necessity, but rather trying to manage in a way that our hunters wanted. The other half are very happy with the situation that we had. This (new rule) is the only option they were willing to agree on. Hunters were evenly split to leave it the way it was or make the change. Slightly more than half wanted to make the change. We will evaluate it after four to five years,” said Mitchell.
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Post by Ahawkeye on Jul 26, 2006 11:44:59 GMT -5
Is this horse dead yet?
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Post by Woody Williams on Jul 26, 2006 11:47:20 GMT -5
He died 4 years ago...
EXTREMELY LONG FUNERAL...
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Post by DEERTRACKS on Jul 26, 2006 14:15:45 GMT -5
He died 4 years ago...
EXTREMELY LONG FUNERAL...
;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by lugnutz on Jul 26, 2006 16:53:35 GMT -5
When is 90% of big deer shot? If your gonna hunt a buck, when would you hunt it? Do you, or don't you agree that a 100 class whitetail killed with a bow, is equal to a 140 class gun kill? Not sure about you, but i don't set my season out to kill a 100 class buck. Therefore, i now have to pass that 100 class buck in bow season and hope for something larger in gun season, sure its my decision to do so, but its not something i would do if we went back to a archery AND firearm buck tag. Thank you Lug, you just proved my point exactly. How can it not be about antler worship to go to a two buck system when you are complaining about passing a 100" buck. You said you don't set your season out to kill that deer. So then why when that deer walks past your stand do you question the fact you are not going to shoot it? You admit that is not the deer you want. Shooting it, only to shoot a larger one later is 100% about antlers. If it were not, then you could have simply plunked the doe that probably walked through before that 100" deer. You can not sit here and argue that it is not about antlers when a two buck system clearly is ... please re-read your own words. OK, I promise, I'm done this time. ;D You know dec, i asked several questions in that Quote, you managed not to answer any of them. Dec also in your previous posts on this thread you mentioned that you passed several monster bucks, cause their was one that you really wanted, was that a case of Antler Fascination? Maybe if you were to answer my questions, it might "unlock" that closed mind you have, and see the other side of the coin. Lug
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Post by indianahick on Jul 26, 2006 23:39:03 GMT -5
As one of my favorite old time comedians used to say Ladies and Germs it time to put this one to bed. Let's face it purely and simply those of us that do not like the obr is not going to be swayed by those that do. There were, there are big bucks out there. The main difference is simply that those that wanted to get the state into the guided hunt business got a regulation passed. So that they might be able to lease a bunch of property and make money without going to the high fence pens of those that are already trying it. It has nothing to do with putting Indiana up with the states like Tx, Ill, Ala, because we will never be there in the book postings, why it is quite simple our herd is not as big. Smaller herds just simply means that there are and always will be less big book bucks, but there will be several medium but still less. Ergo just let this die out and be buried for a while. OK?
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Post by cedararrow on Jul 27, 2006 6:57:13 GMT -5
IndianaHick Since i have been here I have tried my best not to attack anyone or to get personal. However reading your post I have to sit here and wonder what the heck you are talking about. I am a pro OBR guy and i dont own enough land to lease to anyone. The only land I own is the half acre my house sits on. I would say 95% of the people that want the OBR dont want it because they have an abundance of land that they want to turn into an outfitter business.
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Post by greghopper on Jul 27, 2006 7:27:54 GMT -5
As one of my favorite old time comedians used to say Ladies and Germs it time to put this one to bed. Let's face it purely and simply those of us that do not like the obr is not going to be swayed by those that do. ...Mamma How do you really know this?I really dont think anybody is trying to sway anyone.There has been lots of good points made and people should keep an open MIND...
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Post by Woody Williams on Jul 27, 2006 7:44:40 GMT -5
As one of my favorite old time comedians used to say Ladies and Germs it time to put this one to bed. Let's face it purely and simply those of us that do not like the obr is not going to be swayed by those that do. .............There has been lots of good points made and people should keep an open MIND... BOTH ways, right? I'm not opposed to debating this until the cows come home (and they are still out in the back 40), but as indianhick said, it does little good. There "might" be a few fence sitters on here, but by now most people have made up their minds. Some will give input when the time comes (if it does) and some will take a "who cares one way or the other" attitude. I'd say 75% of the deer hunters in Indiana do not have a clue as to how any regulations, limits or "trials" come about. They just go deer hunting when season rolls around with whatever the IDNR says that they can do. THEY are the silent majority. Some where down the road someone will push something that will awaken them and then we will all have to pay. The OBR is just something that both sides are very passionate about and just like to keep it going. Just about everything that can be said, has been said. One thing this constant debating does is get people to a point where they lose control and start bad mouthing the people on the other side of the issue. That is when the proverbial you-know-what hits the fan here. We all need to be very careful there as we are talking to fellow hunters, not anti-hunters.. Hopefully when something that is REALLY important comes along we can ALL keep that same kind of passion.
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Post by semisneak on Jul 27, 2006 9:35:54 GMT -5
Wow ! I havent been on in a while and look at what i have been missing. I only waded thru 7 pages of posts and the best thing I have read so far is that obr is a buck welfare program . LMAO ! How true. The big deer have always been out there. Lets say the obr actually worked and five years from now the average size buck was 150 class. Would that still be a trophy? No . It would be an average deer. A trophy is something you earn , not something gave to you. I would rather kill a 6 pointer with my bow on the ground I hunt then pay some jackass a pile of money to shoot some big buck he raised or managed for a client to come out and dispose of. Manage the herd and not the size of the racks and the dedicated hunters will still get the buck they are after. All this " Oh, I need the dnr to make big bucks for me because I cant kill one" is B.S. Someone posted they passed on 30 different bucks last year. WOW ! I dont think taking two bucks would have hurt that herd any but thats none of my business.
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Post by dwhunting on Jul 27, 2006 15:38:28 GMT -5
I'm kind of anxious to see if you guys can hit 20 pages on this issue. Very interesting to say the least.
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Post by steiny on Jul 27, 2006 16:56:11 GMT -5
Well boys, you've finally shown me in the error in my ways. What have I been thinking all this time? OBR Is crazy, it it rude, it is wrong. We should go to a five buck season, because the multi weapon hunter ought to be able to kill a buck with; shotgun, bow, muzzle loader, crossbow and pistol. Otherwise we're just taking opportunity away or transferring the harvest from one weapon to the other. Glad I finally saw the light.
This antler worshiping thing I've been ate up with for the last twenty plus years is dead wrong too. For now on, I'll shoot fork horns and be happy with it. Matter of fact, I have a shizzload of big mounted whitetails and racks displayed in my trophy room that I need to get rid of, rather than continue to feed this sickness. Anyone want them, before I pile them up and torch them all?
Far as leasing and outfitting go, they should be outlawed too. Get the government involved and shut this off. We all know the farmers and land owners don't need any more income. Residents ought to be able to hunt on anybody's land, anytime the want, for free, and we certainly don't want out of staters coming around to hunt. Why not put up a fence at the state line?
Heck of a debate. You guys finally won me over. I have seen the light. Can't wait to get out this fall and get after a nice six pointer.
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Post by hornharvester on Jul 27, 2006 17:31:13 GMT -5
Well boys, you've finally shown me in the error in my ways. What have I been thinking all this time? OBR Is crazy, it it rude, it is wrong. We should go to a five buck season, because the multi weapon hunter ought to be able to kill a buck with; shotgun, bow, muzzle loader, crossbow and pistol. Otherwise we're just taking opportunity away or transferring the harvest from one weapon to the other. Glad I finally saw the light. This antler worshiping thing I've been ate up with for the last twenty plus years is dead wrong too. For now on, I'll shoot fork horns and be happy with it. Matter of fact, I have a shizzload of big mounted whitetails and racks displayed in my trophy room that I need to get rid of, rather than continue to feed this sickness. Anyone want them, before I pile them up and torch them all? Far as leasing and outfitting go, they should be outlawed too. Get the government involved and shut this off. We all know the farmers and land owners don't need any more income. Residents ought to be able to hunt on anybody's land, anytime the want, for free, and we certainly don't want out of staters coming around to hunt. Why not put up a fence at the state line? Heck of a debate. You guys finally won me over. I have seen the light. Can't wait to get out this fall and get after a nice six pointer. You know i was just thinking the same thing, you antler worshipers have changed my way of thinking. Ive been to the temple of worship (Cabelas) and saw the mighty alter right inside the door. All the followers were milling around the alter wishing they could kill a buck just like the Hanson buck. It was a moving experience indeed. But why do we want to stop here in Indiana with the OBR? These little 180 class bucks that are behind every tree are nothing to me now that Im re-born. Why don't us OBR boys get together and buy some sperm from one of these "super antler" farms and impregnate some does from each county. I'll bet Russ Bellar would give us a bargain. After two or three years just look at the antlers we will have. Then we can get the DNR to maintain deer feeding sites in each county with growth hormones. That ought to make some super big bucks with giant antlers. Our average buck by then should be over 300 lbs and 200" minimum. WOW! i can hardly wait. Now if some of us are still unhappy we could always cross our "super antler" bucks with some mule deer does and get a cross that will make any deer hunter drool. Now can you imagine what out of state hunters would be willing to pay to hunt these "super bucks". The DNR could buy a fleet of Hummers for all the CO's with the money they'll be raking in. Leasing agents and outfitters will be making money hand over fist. Man, i cant understand why it took me so long to see the light. The OBR is the greatest thing since Indiana banned whale hunting. h.h.
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Post by indianahick on Jul 28, 2006 9:44:01 GMT -5
I believe that it was Groncho Marx that used to say Ladies and Germs. But then again that was way way back in the stone ages and my memory seems to have holes in it any more.
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Post by indianahick on Jul 28, 2006 13:04:36 GMT -5
Ceder- What the heck? You are pro obr-it was easy to tell. You only own 1/2 acre. That is all I own also. Do not know when you started hunting, who tought you, do not care. Did you vote for obr? As I recall back in the mid 90's there were many licenses sold, you could get a buck with each. That was no good. I do vaguly remember that someone wanted to improve Indiana's bucks in order to get out of state money infused into the state. Who would lobby for such a thing. In my opinion that the head of the list would be those that wanted to be outfitters. What was their motovation? More record book bucks or money. I vote for MONEY. Now how are they going to do this? By leasing all available land that they could afford. Where does that live the little guy? More than likely out in the cold with no place to go.
Now would I vote for a change from that multi-multi buck way to one more restrictive. YOU DAMN SKIPPY!!
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Post by indianahick on Jul 28, 2006 13:06:34 GMT -5
To all others I apologies, for this little temper tantrum.
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