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Post by lugnutz on Jun 27, 2006 21:19:41 GMT -5
Why is it that our ignorant state officials, have gun season during the peak of the rut, year n and year out?
I'd think it would be more efficient for our management if we had something different set up at this time.
Lug
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Post by kevin1 on Jun 28, 2006 6:30:08 GMT -5
As it was explained to me by a DNR official , the reason why the gun season starts during the peak of the rut is for herd number management . More hunters are afield at that time than any other , and more deer are taken as a result . This is the most efficient way to reduce the herd's gross population . It never made sense to me either since most of the deer are locked into breeding by then and not as available to hunters as a result(rut lull) . Ideally , the mass reduction should be conducted when the deer are in the chase phase and therefore more active , but then they'd have to move the gun season up a week or two to accomodate that since bow hunting is a far less efficient harvest method due to lower hunter participation . DNR will never change the gun season to pacify the bow hunters , if they move it at all it will be to an earlier date , not later .
Be careful what you wish for .
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Post by DEERTRACKS on Jun 28, 2006 6:55:26 GMT -5
As it was explained to me by a DNR official , the reason why the gun season starts during the peak of the rut is for herd number management . More hunters are afield at that time than any other , and more deer are taken as a result . This is the most efficient way to reduce the herd's gross population . It never made sense to me either since most of the deer are locked into breeding by then and not as available to hunters as a result(rut lull) . Ideally , the mass reduction should be conducted when the deer are in the chase phase and therefore more active , but then they'd have to move the gun season up a week or two to accomodate that since bow hunting is a far less efficient harvest method due to lower hunter participation . DNR will never change the gun season to pacify the bow hunters , if they move it at all it will be to an earlier date , not later . Be careful what you wish for . Well said. Opening up gun season just one week earlier would definately increase the harvest numbers. The deer are much more actively involved in the chase phase during hunting hours.
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Post by Ahawkeye on Jun 28, 2006 7:46:22 GMT -5
I would be one of the "pacified" bow hunters if they moved it back one week, but as far as moving gun season to an earlier date I'd rather not but that's just my opinion, there are alot more hunters out there than just me. I'd say the DNR really cant move it one way or another without making alot of people mad. It's kind of like being the presadent, every body say's "I'd do it this way" an in reality you probably couldn't after you took a long hard look at what you might mess up. Just my 2 cents.
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Post by buckeater on Jun 28, 2006 9:00:56 GMT -5
i am with ahawkeye.there are alot of things people would like to change but you can wish in one hand and you know what in the other and see wich one fills up first. but i dont think that gun season this year will be on the peak of the rut this year because it starts on 19th this year. i think it will be on the tail end of it. but i would rather bow hunt any day over gun but when the opurtunity presents itself ill pick up the gun. but this year opening of gun week ill be in illinios bow hunting so it doesnt bother me any way i look at it.
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Post by hunter7x on Jun 28, 2006 9:06:05 GMT -5
Moving it a week earlier would definately make some big boys show up in the backs of trucks that weekend. I don't see anything wrong with it where it is. Why mess with a good thing. If you want to hunt the peak of the rut, take up bow hunting ! It's much more rewarding than waiting on some one to run a deer past you or hope the neighbor misses and he runs your way.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jun 28, 2006 14:48:31 GMT -5
I've always believed that the rut in my area peaks from November 10th to 14th.
The pre-rut is every bit as good, especially for a bowhunter.
It is MUCH easier to entice and get to stop a decent buck in pre-rut that is out looking fro does than a buck in rut that is with a doe.
KY's season is timed for the rut and they don't seem to have a problem growing big bucks.
The 900 pound gorilla in deer hutning are the gun hunters and I can gaurantee you that they don't want to be pushed out of the rut.
Why do we have to continually tinker with something that is already GREAT??
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Post by steiny on Jun 28, 2006 18:08:51 GMT -5
We have had basically the same firearms season structure for as long as I can remember, maybe 30 years or so. You know what they say ... "If you always do, what you've always done, you'll always get what you'vealways gotten". Absolutely crazy in my opinion,but I'm not a DNR employee.
I'd like to duplicate the Illinois season structure and give it a try. Three days of firearms around mid November, then another four days in early December. Wide open for bow the rest of the time. If we switched to that program, I'd go along with going back to a two buck limit also.
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Post by 911 on Jun 28, 2006 20:30:04 GMT -5
We have had basically the same firearms season structure for as long as I can remember, maybe 30 years or so. You know what they say ... "If you always do, what you've always done, you'll always get what you'vealways gotten". Absolutely crazy in my opinion,but I'm not a DNR employee. I'd like to duplicate the Illinois season structure and give it a try. Three days of firearms around mid November, then another four days in early December. Wide open for bow the rest of the time. If we switched to that program, I'd go along with going back to a two buck limit also. I agree lets go back to two bucks.
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Post by lugnutz on Jun 28, 2006 22:29:36 GMT -5
Personally i'd like to see the shotgun season start the weekend of Thanksgiving and run for two concecutive weeks. Have a weekend of muzzeloader the last weekend in October, and pick it back up again immediately after shotgun season. After muzz is over then it would be back open, to archery only, until the end of the season.
My reasons for this is as follows:
During the peak of the rut/pre rut is when the majority of Bucks are available for the taking, or at least mostly available for the taking. Starting the season a week later than it does now would greatly improve our size and population of bucks. Why change you ask? The number of P&Y or B&C entries are no where near the top of any given year. And why is this? Because other DNR agenies accross the country are trying new things each year to improve the quality of their deer herd, and a majority of those states are passing us right up. Sure we will have some entries each year, but nothing like we are capable of doing. If the hunters of this state doesn't want the quality of our herd to improve, then we will soon be at the bottom of the ladder. For those of you that afraid that the costs of "prime" hunting grounds will rise, they will, but the quality of game will/could be greatly improved. If we could limit the number of non-resident tags being sold to a minimum, we wouldn't have to worry about huge outfitters coming in to purchase the availble ground. This would allow resident hunters improved quality, at the minimum costs. If us as hunters aren't willing to take a chance at improving our deer herd, with the use of information from other DNR agencies, we have done nothing to help future hunters, to enjoy a quality hunt.
Lug
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2006 2:46:09 GMT -5
Kentucky hunts during the rut for 21 days with rifles and has been putting 25-45 in the B & C book each year for awhile now. No limit on NR tags that are available over the counter. If RESIDENTS want better quality bucks, just stop shooting the little ones and wait. With 200,000 plus deer hunters, making a few hundred happy with a big buck isn't providing a quality hunt, it's providing a trophy hunt for a very small number. Quality is in the eye of the beholder.
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Post by kevin1 on Jun 29, 2006 6:49:07 GMT -5
If the DNR were to start managing solely for trophy hunting just to satisfy the few who actually want it then the number of reduction counties would quickly swell as the herd ballooned out of control . I have been told at NRC meetings that trophy hunting is not and never has been an important factor in their management decisions , their primary goal is a healthy overall herd with a controlled population that provides a satisfactory balance to all who make use of our natural resouces . They are charged by their duties to deal with facts , not ego fantasies , and they have to accomodate to the greatest degree possible the wishes of all Indiana residents and visitors who make use of those resources . I would respectfully suggest that those who feel that other states have better deer hunting try spending their money there instead . Illinois and Kentucky are both adjacent to Indiana , have at it .
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Post by hornharvester on Jun 29, 2006 7:06:25 GMT -5
i like the season just the way it is but would like to see them go back to a two buck rule, (more money for the dnr) and add a late muzzleloader season in mid January. After all deer hunting in Indiana is more about managing the herd than growing big antlers. h.h.
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Post by dec on Jun 29, 2006 8:01:27 GMT -5
I'd love to see it change, but I'll admit, my reasons are for ALL THE WRONG reasons. Mine stem from pure personal greed. Wrong, I know, but at least I'll admit it.
I'd love to see our season structured so that it is all archery until the last week of November. Turn it over to the guns (I'm even open to the dreaded straight wall pistol caliber rifles) for one week. 7 days of gun hunting is pleanty IMO. Then close it down for a week and open it up for muzzleloaders for a week. Then I could see a very late muzzleloader season well into January for a couple weeks, mostly for doe harvest.
Also, keep the ONE BUCK in effect.
Again, my reasoning is purely for personal reasons. Myself and the guys that hunt in the area around where I hunt keep the local herd in pretty good check given the amount of bonus tags we usually use. I have NOTHING against gun hunting (I pick up a muzzleloader sometimes) and I can truely appriciate a trophy buck taken with a gun. But (and again, this is pure greed) I can't stand to see the weekend warriors out slaughtering small bucks. Move the guns out of the rut and you'll see so many more and better bucks in general across this state. Make doe tags extremely affordable and plentiful and you'll see more does taken across the state.
OK, there is my personal agenda idea. I know it will never fly and I'm sure my idea ruffles many feathers on this board. Again it is my idea only and I am NOT out lobbying IDNR to follow my thoughts. They'll do what they'll do in Indy and nothing that I say will change there minds. So that means Indiana deer season will remain with 4 weeks in a row of non-stop gun (including smoke poles) slaughter, some of it during the rut depending on how the calendar falls.
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Post by indianahick on Jun 29, 2006 9:43:39 GMT -5
I am one of the leave it alone hunter, I have hunted this way since 1970 or so. As for changing to Ill. I am against that since I could not get out very often then. Most of the weekend warriors are gone after the first weekend which leaves only the most ardent hunters in the field. Where I have been hunting the past 6-7 years I have not seen enough big bucks to tell if the one buck experiment works or not. I do not feel that two bucks are to many compared to what there was back in the 90's when you could get a buck with each license that you bought. Archery, Shotgun, Handgun, Muzzle loader, toss in Refuge and some guys got up to 5 bucks and 3-4 does. Want to see some big bucks drive on 465 in the evening on the woody northwest corridor. Habitat and feed are going to give you big trophy bucks not limited numbers. How much habitat has been lost in the past 3-4 years around your areas? I would almost bet that here in Vigo we have lost 2-3000 acres in the past 3-4 years to housing development and roadways. I know of at least 2 decent woods that were lost to the 461 bypass. Just leave it alone.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jun 29, 2006 10:11:47 GMT -5
I've had some folks tell me that we should move the gun season out of the rut because the big bucks are more vulnerable then.
They try and pass this off a QDM. It is not QDM.
QDM is about protecting the 1 1/2 year olds and some 2 1/2 year olds, NOT the older bucks.
These folks seem to want to protect ALL bucks until they get to be Boone and Crockett. That is more of that trophy growing BS mentality. Big antlers at any cost.
When is the younger bucks most vulnerable? Dang near anytime as they move a lot.
If the gun season is moved out of rut and held when the big boys are holed up again one of two things will happen:
1) Deer drives will become the hunting method of choice. IOW - if the big boys wont move naturally we will get them to move. Iowa does a LOT of deer drives.
2) The gun hunters will start taking any buck that happens to come along. If is after or before the rut more than likely that will be a young dumb one that doens't have a clue as to what is going on or what did go on. They will still be out looking for some action..That would be counter-productive to an age shift in the herd.
Again - why do we want to screw up a great thing?
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Post by steiny on Jun 29, 2006 16:52:29 GMT -5
Why are so many afraid to try something different? Some change would be nice IMO. Try something different and see if the results are favorable.
IMO this state needs to think about the resources more like a business. Do a good job at managing a high caliber deer heard (read lots of big antlers like Illionois & Iowa),and you'll be attracting tourists to our state to hunt. You could jack up the price of non-res tags, and generate a bunch more money for a state that badly needs it, plus local business, farmers, etc. would all pick up a few extra bucks from the traveling hunters.
Trophy animals mean big $$ and that's just the way it is. And regardless if we will admit it or not, we all are a part of the reason this has occurred. Anyone that reads the deer mags, watches the deer shows, movies, buys the gadgets, goes to the deer expo, etc. is participating in building this industry centered around big buck deer. Don't blame it on the land leasers and outfitters. They are just filling a need. With that said, I think it's in the best interst of the state to capitilize on the dollars available, rather than letting our neighboring states rake in all the dough.
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Post by lugnutz on Jun 29, 2006 20:54:54 GMT -5
I've had some folks tell me that we should move the gun season out of the rut because the big bucks are more vulnerable then. They try and pass this off a QDM. It is not QDM. QDM is about protecting the 1 1/2 year olds and some 2 1/2 year olds, NOT the older bucks. These folks seem to want to protect ALL bucks until they get to be Boone and Crockett. That is more of that trophy growing BS mentality. Big antlers at any cost. When is the younger bucks most vulnerable? Dang near anytime as they move a lot. If the gun season is moved out of rut and held when the big boys are holed up again one of two things will happen: 1) Deer drives will become the hunting method of choice. IOW - if the big boys wont move naturally we will get them to move. Iowa does a LOT of deer drives. 2) The gun hunters will start taking any buck that happens to come along. If is after or before the rut more than likely that will be a young dumb one that doens't have a clue as to what is going on or what did go on. They will still be out looking for some action..That would be counter-productive to an age shift in the herd. Again - why do we want to screw up a great thing? 1.) Deer drives? So, what if the big ones don't move this year of a few years of hunting seasons. Everyone seems not to be in it for the horns anyhow, at least thats how you come off. 2.) Deer hunters taking the first buck that walks in front of them? Isn't this what your doing already? Like you've said several times before Woody, we need to quit shooting the young ones. So i don't understand why changing anything would be "counter-productive"? BTW were is it that you are hunting, that 2 1/2 yr old bucks are that stupid? Once again Woody, why you/anyone afraid of a change? Could it be from personal greed? Cause its obvious, that not everyone considers Indiana to have "great deer hunting". Lug
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Post by lugnutz on Jun 29, 2006 21:02:34 GMT -5
Kentucky hunts during the rut for 21 days with rifles and has been putting 25-45 in the B & C book each year for awhile now. No limit on NR tags that are available over the counter. If RESIDENTS want better quality bucks, just stop shooting the little ones and wait. With 200,000 plus deer hunters, making a few hundred happy with a big buck isn't providing a quality hunt, it's providing a trophy hunt for a very small number. Quality is in the eye of the beholder. With 200,000 hunters, it would give everyone a more quality hunt, unless only those few hundred are the only ones hunting Lug
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Post by dbd870 on Jun 30, 2006 4:38:31 GMT -5
I agree with much of what kevin1 said; and I and my rifle will be going south of the river this year.
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