|
|
Post by duff on Mar 20, 2006 9:07:06 GMT -5
To say these numbers are wrong is simply not understanding how all representative sampling occurs. Would it be better if every single deer was aged, of course. But the DNR has capable biologist who are also statical professionals and know at what point too few or too many samples are acceptable.
To have our biologist out every single day at the check stations would rob IDNR of funds for limited return. When close to 50% of all deer killed occur opening weekend of shotgun season why wouldn't they focus their efforts that weekend?
|
|
|
|
Post by danf on Mar 20, 2006 20:42:36 GMT -5
I understand that point (50% of kill 1st weekend of firearms). However, my point is that I believe the age structure is slightly skewed due to the fact that it does not take into consideration that a higher percentage of the bucks taken during early archery are probably older bucks due to the OBR.
Hypothetically, if 1 of every 3 bucks taken that first weekend of firearms is 1 1/2, but 3 of 4 or even 4 of 5 bucks taken in early archery are 2 1/2 or older, wouldn't that change the numbers a fair amount?
If I can make a generalization, archers tend to be more serious hunters (hunt more often) than gun hunters. Therefore they are more inclined to NOT shoot the first buck that comes along- they will wait for a bigger, more mature buck. Even though *I* just started bowhunting last season, I was waiting for a 3 1/2+ year-old. While I'm obviously not every bowhunter, I would bet that most archers are like me and won't intentionally arrow a young buck.
|
|
|
|
Post by Woody Williams on Mar 20, 2006 22:25:45 GMT -5
I understand that point (50% of kill 1st weekend of firearms). Actually the opening weekend of firearm season is repsonsible for 39.8 percent of all the bucks taken for the entire year. The opening weekend acounts for 51.7 of all the bucks taken in firearm season. Probably? We really nave no way of knowing for sure do we? Of course if one was to look in the HRBP record books we would see that the larger bucks and more of them are taken in firearm seaosn. If the IDNR only does aging on opening weekend then the 1 1/2 year old percentage is just what they say it is - 50%. It isn't "hypothetically if 1 of every 3 bucks" it IS 1 in every 2 bucks as aged.. I generally agree with the "more serious hunter", although I know a LOT of very serious gun hunters. However the fault of your theory is the short range on the weapons at hand. We can hold out till the cows come home if that big guy goes past at 50 yards when we are up there with a bow in hand he is still walking. He can't do that in gun season and get by with it. I hang around the taxidermy/archery shop/check in station a lot during the last week of archery season and opening weekend of gun season and I can tell you 95% of the big boys don't come in until the gun opener. I really believe that the IDNR knows what they are doing here. I've met the DNR biologists and they are sharp. Especially the one that does the statistics on this subject. |
|
|
|
Post by chicobrownbear on Mar 21, 2006 8:10:27 GMT -5
I wish they would have aged my Co.(Scott) this year, it was amaizing how many older class buck that were taken in pre-rut and the first week of gun season this year. There is normally a DNR biologist at Scott's (Ace) on opening weekend. |
|
lynnk
New Member
Posts: 4
|
Post by lynnk on Mar 21, 2006 8:40:11 GMT -5
I would not recommend comparing Indianas age structure to Tennessee. I have lived and hunted in tn all my life and this info going around saying tn is harvesting all these older aged deer is in my opinion and everyone I know not accurate. I hunt Illinois,Indiana,Ohio,and Texas on most years and tn doesnt even come close to these great states.
|
|
|
|
Post by Woody Williams on Mar 21, 2006 8:43:26 GMT -5
I hunt Illinois,Indiana,Ohio,and Texas on most years and tn doesnt even come close to these great states. You're right in the size of the racks.A whole lot different habitat and probably sub-species too. The age structure graph is straight from the Tennessee wildlife folks. |
|
|
|
Post by chicobrownbear on Mar 21, 2006 10:01:07 GMT -5
I would not recommend comparing Indianas age structure to Tennessee. I have lived and hunted in tn all my life and this info going around saying tn is harvesting all these older aged deer is in my opinion and everyone I know not accurate. I hunt Illinois,Indiana,Ohio,and Texas on most years and tn doesnt even come close to these great states. Antlers are not used as aging structures because of the high degree of variability involved... A deer with a small basket rack could easily be over 5 years old. Likewise, a 2.5 year old deer, with proper nutrition, can have the rack you would expect to see on a deer twice that age. www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/tools/deerteth/deerteth.htm |
|
lynnk
New Member
Posts: 4
|
Post by lynnk on Mar 21, 2006 10:15:37 GMT -5
I,m not talking about comparing racks from tn deer to those of other states. I am fully aware of that. But when you are at the checking stations and know some very knowledgeable hunters who know what they are seeing,when they see all these 1 1/2 old deer and very few older class deer being checked in,something is wrong. I think TWRA's info is not as accurate as they believe. Just my opinion.
|
|
|
|
Post by Decatur on Mar 22, 2006 7:27:34 GMT -5
However, I have NEVER seen or heard of a biologist at a check station any time other than opening weekend of gun season. . All deer taken in park/military hunts are aged too. |
|
|
|
Post by mbogo on Mar 24, 2006 8:58:02 GMT -5
Most of those younger bucks are later killed during firearms season and are then represented in the IDNR's harvest age calculation.
The reason archery kills are not aged by DNR biologists is because the archery harvest is small and insignificant when compared to the firearms harvest. It is a waste of money and effort to age archery kills.
The average archer was already more selective than the average gun only hunter. More oppurtunity and more time to hunt, not greater restrictions, leads to more selectivity.
Passing up 1.5 year old bucks and then shooting a 2.5 year old buck is counter-productive to the goal of having more mature bucks.
|
|
|
|
Post by pbr on Mar 25, 2006 9:47:15 GMT -5
Since an overwhelming bulk of the bucks is brought into the check station on opening weekend it only makes good sense to age at that time. The DNR gets more samples that way.The more samples the better the conclusion.
The DNR would be waiting a long time on the last week of the bow season to get as many numbers as they would just on opening morning of gun season.
|
|
