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Post by kevin1 on Aug 11, 2005 17:41:08 GMT -5
Prejudice rarely does , Multi , but it's a fact that if all the gun hunters and all the bow hunters stood up and said "Not in my season" , and the DNR had to choose where to put the crossbow it surely wouldn't end up in a firearm season . Most gun only hunters resent having to share their season with any bow hunters because of their extended season . Nearly all of the ones that I've asked flatly stated that they would prefer that all bows be kept out of the gun seasons period .
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 11, 2005 17:46:48 GMT -5
Woody , I also believe that you'll live to see that day . Man... I hope so. I don't plan on cashing in my chips anytime soon.. Seriously... I don't think this thing will be put up for a vote by the individual groups of hunters.. If the IDNR survey this year comes back with a substantial interest in crossbows and not even a majority I do believe that the IDNR will go forward with it. Contrary to what some folks say there is a latent interest in crossbows in Indiana. Make it legal in a season it belongs in and that interest will PEAK.. Georgia, Alabama, Tennesseee and Virgiania all have found that out..
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Post by multidigits on Aug 11, 2005 17:58:15 GMT -5
Prejudice rarely does , Multi , but it's a fact that if all the gun hunters and all the bow hunters stood up and said "Not in my season" , and the DNR had to choose where to put the crossbow it surely wouldn't end up in a firearm season . Most gun only hunters resent having to share their season with any bow hunters because of their extended season . Nearly all of the ones that I've asked flatly stated that they would prefer that all bows be kept out of the gun seasons period . Strange.....must be a Hossier thing. Most states let you use a less lethal choice during firearms seasons. Some prefer to hunt with archery during certain or even all gun seasons. And there's no reason not to allow it, especially with bulging deer herds in most all places and DNR's begging folks to kill more does.
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 11, 2005 18:11:08 GMT -5
Prejudice rarely does , Multi , but it's a fact that if all the gun hunters and all the bow hunters stood up and said "Not in my season" , and the DNR had to choose where to put the crossbow it surely wouldn't end up in a firearm season . Most gun only hunters resent having to share their season with any bow hunters because of their extended season . Nearly all of the ones that I've asked flatly stated that they would prefer that all bows be kept out of the gun seasons period . Strange.....must be a Hossier thing. Most states let you use a less lethal choice during firearms seasons. Some prefer to hunt with archery during certain or even all gun seasons. And there's no reason not to allow it, especially with bulging deer herds in most all places and DNR's begging folks to kill more does. True...archers can hunt in Indiana from October 1 until the first Sunday in January and they still don't want to share any of that with crossbowers. Sound familiar? My feelings are that if the IDNR wants crossbows to: 1) Recruit new hunters (mostly young and women) 2) Retain older hunters 3) Increase license revenues 4) Kill more deer The ONLY logical place to put crossbows are in the entire archery season. Putting them in the firearm season and late season is a kiss of death.The antis are counting on that. Just like "bowhunters" very few crossbowers would be out there in firearm season slinging sticks.Most hunters opt for the most efficient hunting tool that is legal at the time. I know LOTS of bowhunters, but very, very few that hunt with a bow during firearm season.
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Post by cambygsp on Aug 12, 2005 7:10:21 GMT -5
""True...archers can hunt in Indiana from October 1 until the first Sunday in January and they still don't want to share any of that with crossbowers. Sound familiar?""
I wouldnt take it personal......they (or at least many) also are on record of not wanting to share "their" woods......NOT EVEN FOR JUST ONE WEEKEND....with firearm toting children looking for their first deer harvest.
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Post by kevin1 on Aug 12, 2005 7:28:04 GMT -5
Probably so , and I agree with you . If left to me I would allow it throughout the deer seasons same as vert bows . The problem seems to be that everybody here wants an exclusive season to themselves .
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Post by jbwhttail on Aug 12, 2005 20:56:37 GMT -5
Well let me post and get it deleted AGAIN!
First off why not post the truth about archery in Gun season......
It was done for one reason.... some land owners did not allow gun hunting nor was it safe in some properties. that is the ONLY reason it was allowed.
Now that is fact!!! Who can find a way to dispute?
And now let's talk about early archery season and our selfishness..........
I asked the all knowing camby about why we don't hunt deer in other month's that are available, he sang and he danced but couldn't come up with an answer.
We don't hunt those months because "TRADITION". Dr Mitchell answered that question for me years ago.
What you folks want is to forget tradition.
Also you say we shouldlet that minority in that wants crossbow. Yet whop was the first to scream when a minority suggested outlawing the crossbow?
Woody did a fine job explaining that EACH weapon has a license, crossbow is NEXT!!
Woody also answered honestly, if the crossbow does not have a majority, he will still push for it. Funny how he wanted the OBR to have a "super" majority, but his pet........ 4 people are enough.. Camby Kevin1 Multi and the Grand poopa Woody......
Woody?
How is it pro crossbow stuff is allowed on the crossbow forum? Tell me again what ted Nugent has to do with the basics of shooting a crossbow?
Post a opposing comment and it is deleted...... Yup that is intelligent debate.
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Post by cambygsp on Aug 12, 2005 22:01:07 GMT -5
We **TRADITIONALY** never had this many deer either!!!!!
*Traditionaly*, we never had 80%+ let off compound bows and it has ALWAYS been a *tradition* to actually "scout" with your own eyes.....not a "scouting camera"....as Bass Pro calls them.
Oh yea! ... *traditionaly*,...lol... folks NEVER planted food "JUST FOR DEER"...and *tradition* never included "PAYING CASH MONEY" for a place to hunt deer.
Remember when it was *tradition* to NOT shoot female (Doe) deer?...and the *tradition* was for FIREARMS ONLY in the general firearms part of the deer season?
Actualy, not too long ago we broke from the *tradition* of allowing the folks who hunted with bows and firearms the opportunity to hunt a "second buck deer"..... For many it was *tradition* to attempt to harvest a "better" second buck.
And *traditionaly*....organized hunting groups were ***PRO-HUNTING***... always looking for added opportunity.
Joe,
Your really not making much since..........are you saying that we NEED to stick to our traditions....you know like "Traditional Deer Management".........??
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Post by RiverJim on Aug 13, 2005 6:33:25 GMT -5
He got ya there. If trad is trad then trad is trad.
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 13, 2005 9:05:46 GMT -5
Well let me post and get it deleted AGAIN! WW - You in the Campfire Forum now Joe. The ONLY deletions of your posts have been for foul mouth and personal attacks. I've saved them Joe.. Debate away.. AGAIN…WW - I agree. But it was the bowhunters that pushed for it wasn't it? I think I recall something on the IBA site once that it was one of their "got done" jobs. It was also us bowhunters that pushed to have our season extended until January too wasn't it? That was a break in "tradition" wasn't it? The first deer season in Indiana was what 4 or 5 days? Was that "tradition"? Should we go back to that? "Traditions" change, Joe.. Tradionally we used to be abel to hunt two bucks too... WW- Traditions change don't they? We are not still hunting with a stick and string and sidehammer MZs or even punkin balls. WW - “TRADITION”? You throw that word around rather loosely. Did the P & Y consider the compound bow as a threat “to our tradition”? As long as the archery seasons were sticks and strings we had a REAL TRADITION. It simply amazes me that people that shoot such high fangled, high let off, high tech compound bows at up to 99% let off, space age strings, with hair trigger release aids, fiber optic sights, carbon arrows and mechanical broadheads can spout about their TRADITION. Do they actually think that climbing up a tree with a $300 aluminum climber, over a Buck Forage Oat food/killing plot, all dressed up in a scent loc suit and using a range finder puts them in the class with Dr. Saxton Pope and Arthur Young? That is "TRADITION?" The introduction of compound bows not only changed that “tradition” but also opened to the door to other archery equipment – such as the crossbow. Did you walk the halls of the ATA show? Where is the "TRADITION" there?? Maybe a half dozen companies hawking recurves? The rest were whiz bang space age compounds. That is "TRADITION?" The only resemblance of today’s modern archery equipment and our ‘TRADITION” archery equipment is they both launch arrows. Well, so does a crossbow.“Tradition” is families and friends getting together to deer hunt and have fellowship. It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT THEY ARE HUNTING WITH.[/u] Funny that you want to do away with “traditional deer management”, but want to keep “traditional” hunting tools. At least what YOU[/u] define as “traditional” hunting tools. WW - One great thing about America is that it does recognize minority rights. The politics of it is designed so that the majority doesn't trample the minority. There is something about “outlawing”[/u] a perfectly good hunting tool, that is no better or no worse than a piece of equipment used by 93% of the bowhunters today , that can of rankles me. WW - Maybe, maybe not. Do you push for a license for every type of hunting tool? Or is it just the crossbowers you want to pick on? Should we not have a license for recurves and a different one for compounds? No doubt the folks that go afield with a compound are much more successful that the old time bowbenders. How about the handgun hunters? Maybe break it down by the gauge of shotgun too. Sidehammers? Flinters? Yep, everyone needs their own license. Yeah, let's much up the license scheme some more in Indiana. It will get to a point where we will have to consult an attorney before we go hunting to see if we are legal. WW - Keep thinking that Joe... Let's see...the OBR took away hunting opportunity and the legalization of crossbows in archery season will increase hunter opportunities. Yes I think that anything that DECREASE hunter opportunities should have a super majority. While anything that INCREASES hunter opportunities does not. WW - No need to tell you…. read what is posted in the crossbow rules. Beat the crossbow dead horse all you want to here though. No censoring except nasty name calling and personal attacks.
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Post by cambygsp on Aug 13, 2005 9:44:59 GMT -5
For the record....I would support a crossbow license....AS LONG AS WE ESTABLISH WHAT PART OF THE DEER SEASON WE CAN USE THEM IN **FIRST**. But the problem with that idea is,.... if it is decided that the crossbow ends up in the general firearm part of the **deer season** then why not just allow them with a general firearms tag, just like a M/L and handgun. Just like Joe's idea of the OBR.....not very well thought out!!!! But Joe....how about a compromise here.........we get the crossbow license (that you say we need) and hunt with them starting October 1st..... ? It's a great idea and I would even be willing to allow you to take credit for it.
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 13, 2005 19:22:30 GMT -5
I FINALLY found the McCreedy report for crossbows in Indiana..
McCreedy report – 1995
First hunters were given a scenario of all sporting arms being legal and asked to indicate which they would choose to hunt with.
Modern Shotgun – 84.1%
Bow and arrow – 71.8%
Muzzleloading rifle –67.6%
Modern Centerfire – 52.0%
Modern handgun – 41.1%
Crossbow – 40.8%
Muzzleloading shotgun – 17.4%
Muzzleloading handgun – 10.2%
Then the questions were asked to determine crossbow support or opposition according to season placement
Early archery – 37% support……….41% oppose
Late archery - 47% support………..31% oppose
Muzzleloader – 28% support…………34% oppose
Firearms – 24% support………………..48% oppose
Hmmm... very intresting..
Like I said I do believe that there is a lot of latent interest in crossbows. Enough to justify allowing crossbows to hunt in early archery season..
Legalize it and they will come....
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Post by jbwhttail on Aug 13, 2005 19:28:19 GMT -5
"It's a great idea and I would even be willing to allow you to take credit for it."
You would allow me??? What, I need to have your opinion?
Still the same, license then a season...........
Hunters will decide on the season......
We have a general gun season.... that includes all firearms. We have an early archery season, check the dates on it (includes general gun season) we have a muzzleloader season(needs a licence) and we have a late archery season.
Weapons are defined in the rules for each season, and crossbow is not in it EXCEPT for "handicapped" is it? Same as other stuff just been ignored, but it wont be for much longer.
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 13, 2005 19:42:26 GMT -5
.. AND THE BEAT GOES ON....
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 13, 2005 20:37:50 GMT -5
" Weapons are defined in the rules for each season, and crossbow is not in it EXCEPT for "handicapped" is it? Same as other stuff just been ignored, but it wont be for much longer. www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/huntguide1/deerhnt.htmLate Archery Season - Dec. 4 to Jan. 2License Required... Legal Equipment Archery License.........Archery, Crossbow Crossbows legal in late deer season Crossbows are legal hunting equipment during the late archery deer season. Crossbows must have a minimum 125-pound pull and a mechanical safety. Also, it is illegal to have an arrow placed on the crossbow string outside of legal deer hunting hours while in the field.
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Post by cambygsp on Aug 13, 2005 21:06:41 GMT -5
"license then a season..........."
Well when I asked the DNR if in fact you (JB) were correct on this....they laughed......AND that was your old pals in the old administration!!!
You really made me look like a fool.......I copied and pasted lots of your posts where you "claimed" that a license must be eastblished before the season is established...and asked how they could have created the fall turkey season, prior to going to the legislature and getting the license for the fall turkey season.
They laughed Joe....they laughed!....and then had some "choice" words about you.....then I laughed!
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Post by Indyhunter on Aug 13, 2005 23:20:55 GMT -5
The Colts lost again.
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Post by jbwhttail on Aug 14, 2005 12:05:48 GMT -5
"You really made me look like a fool......."
Well what is new about that? I've been doing that for three years now.............
It doesn't get ANY better than that.........LMAO
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Post by cambygsp on Aug 14, 2005 12:15:48 GMT -5
NOPE....I quit beleiving anything you said a long time ago........on the advice of your "old" pals at the IDNR....lol
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Post by cambygsp on Aug 15, 2005 6:15:49 GMT -5
Joe,
Why would you support "tricking out" a muzzleloader for the purpose of "making a better kill"....yet NOT support a deer hunter that wants to improve their accuracy by useing a crossbow?
Tricking out a M/L with the latest and greatest advancements in optical sights is not really TRADITIONAL....is it?
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