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Post by cambygsp on Aug 8, 2005 22:49:14 GMT -5
Joe, The fact is, if we put it to a vote, it would be just that way, Oct.1 till? ?? One Buck Only....it would work and you know it. You s-t-r-e-t-c-h- the season out because hunters will make more attempts and every attempt a hunter makes equates to "money spent" and THAT is what supports this sport. The deer herd is managed for "maximum hunter days".....it has been PROVEN that the crossbow will not shorten the "maximum hunter days"!!! How about $5.00 deer tags? ? How would the hunting public vote? Would it be a good idea?...I am sure the hunting public would approve of it. And by the way, I have confirmed.....our deer biologist NEVER said that the crossbow would NEVER make it into the early "deer" season. Actually Joe, this issue is going to be decided by archers in this state THIS YEAR.....they will "vote" by the antlerless harvest in the early season. The tools have been put out there for their use, we will start counting the "votes" November 12...
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Post by jbwhttail on Aug 9, 2005 16:54:34 GMT -5
Kevin:
You speak of, "maximum hunter days", can you tell us why we can't hunt in September? how about August?. January? Ferbuary?
The deer are not in danger, we have heard from you(the authority) that we are not taking enough deer and hunters need more opportunity. Why can't we hunt ALL twelve months? We have a limit of antlerless and bucks, when you reach it you quit hunting.
Kevin tell all why we restrict the "opportunity" you so dearly like to spew......
I'd challenge you to find the fetus in a doe in February, even into mid march. Why not hunt? Also by August most fawns are able to be on their own. Let's not forget about the out of season permits being used then. Why not sell license to generate that "REVENUE" you so dearly say is needed.
Kevin why aren't you on this rather than the childish BS emails you are sending DNR about what Joe Bacon said..........Believe it or not I still get feedback.........LMAO>>>>>>> "we got another email today........."
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Post by cambygsp on Aug 9, 2005 21:34:57 GMT -5
Joe,
We do hunt in August (Squirell) September (Urban Deer) January (Rabbits) Febuary (Too Damm cold to hunt anything)
""The deer are not in danger""
Thats what the REAL experts are saying Joe, I'm just repeating!!!....Remember, we just DOUBLED the antlerless in many counties and gave EVERYONE an extra 6 weeks to kill them!!!!
""Kevin why aren't you on this rather than the childish BS emails you are sending DNR about what Joe Bacon said..........Believe it or not I still get feedback.........LMAO>>>>>>> "we got another email today.........""
Yes I know!!!! I am doing my part to entertain those folks at the state office building...BUT....the last time I sent something in, the reply I got was "we already seen that" ...so someone else beat me to the punch....LMAO
You put it out for everyone to see Joe, why do you have a problem if the folks at the DNR see it?
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Post by jbwhttail on Aug 9, 2005 22:29:15 GMT -5
Kevin:
You don't get off that easy....................
October 1st is there a squirrel season? Goose season? Woodcock? Ok let's move to gun season. Nov12(earliest it can open), is there a squirrel season? rabbit season? quail season? Duck season? pheasant season? Coyote season? trapping season?
Now Kevin set back and think(HARD), try again.....................
You get no free ride from me, tell folks why we don't have more " Hunting days opprtunity" .
Kevin, inquiring minds want to know..........
We have too many deer according to IDNR.......... why not more days? You said IDNR is regulated to provide mor "opportunity".
Maybe an email is in order to get an answer........LMAO
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Post by cambygsp on Aug 10, 2005 6:52:43 GMT -5
Well....we do hunt deer year round... Biologists are issueing permission slips all over the state for out of season kills....and as you reported, we have farmers selling those "shooting opportunities"! And did you know.....those summer shooting opportunities are not under the same restrictions that deer season hunters are restrictd to? The real shame is that some folks support this practice....yet they oppose ideas that will help get rid of the practice of out of season deer kills. Back to the topic at hand though........ How would allowing folks to use crossbows in the early part of the deer season negetivly affect "regular bow" users during that same time period. You posted that 59% of the deer hunters in this state use a "form" of archery....IS THAT GOOD? Would it be better if 69%, 79&, 89% use a "form"of archery.....or would it be better to have 19%, 29%, 39% out there with a "form" of archery....because of restrictions? ? I seen your post on the other site.....Rallying the troops? ?? "let's show that archery can be a management tool"......Yep!....I would say you are on the right track! But so far it aint worked! "Regular bow" users have ALWAYS (or at least for a very long time) had the option of a either sex harvest, with the way the license structure is in Indiana. They have for many years been allowed six weeks of low competition hunting, they have for the last dozen or so years had some of the best, fastest and strongest "regular bows" ever manufactured....in the history of time!!!! Yet the practice of "regular bow"deer hunting has proven out to be a very poor management tool, on a state wide basis! It'sw a steep hill to climb Joe, I do wish you the very best luck!!!! Before you mention it, I want to save you the embarassment.... Why would ANYONE suggest the state lower the cost of deer tags when one certian user group is patiently standing by ready to pay the price for the tags and help out in the management of the deer herd? ? I think you will see crossbows in the early deer season W-A-Y before you will ever see cheaper deer tags in INDIANA!!!!!!.......JUST ASK THE NEW ADMINISTRATION. And by-the-way.....didn't you SUPPORT the price increase? ?.......Did you change your mind?...Wasnt it a good "trade off" for a OBR?
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Post by jbwhttail on Aug 10, 2005 21:38:22 GMT -5
Kevin? You did not answer the question posed, you diverted the topic. Again why dio we not hunt deer in August, September, January, February, March. I am talking about licensed hunters as a regular deer season. Kevin give up the games....... tell folks here. Then I'll answer your BS questions. You know, I question, you answer the question, then you get to ask a question....
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Post by cambygsp on Aug 11, 2005 5:13:17 GMT -5
Joe.....
Everyone KNOWS.....if we deer hunted in all the months you mentioned......we would never have any time to fish!
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Post by cambygsp on Aug 11, 2005 6:52:14 GMT -5
Joe, If you feel so strongly about the crossbow having it's own license....why can't we discuss waht part of the season that proposed license would be used in? Didn't we as sportingfolk just get through discussions about extending and expanding the opportunities to hunt the wild turkey in Indiana? Wasn't the "license" the LAST step? We didn't discuss creating a "Part 2" turkey tag....and then try to figure out where it would be used.
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 11, 2005 7:21:00 GMT -5
Joe, If you feel so strongly about the crossbow having it's own license....why can't we discuss waht part of the season that proposed license would be used in? Didn't we as sportingfolk just get through discussions about extending and expanding the opportunities to hunt the wild turkey in Indiana? Wasn't the "license" the LAST step? We didn't discuss creating a "Part 2" turkey tag....and then try to figure out where it would be used. Uh, that is not their plan Camby... A seperate license then they declare - "See, it is not archery. Leave it in the late season.."
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Post by pwalls on Aug 11, 2005 9:15:36 GMT -5
Seems to me by offering a seperate license, you would open a big can of worms.
Using Georgia as an example, we have a "hunting" license that is required to hunt all game. Then we have a "big game" license that is required to hunt deer (with rifle). Then we have a "primitive weapons" license that is required to use any archery or muzzleloader equipment.
So to hunt all season (mid-September thru first-January), I have to purchase 3 licenses.
If you start classifying that further, you will start having licenses for pistols, compound bows, cross bows, traditional bows, in-line muzzleloaders, traditional muzzleloaders, etc. Once you prove to an institution/legislature that you are Ok with attaching a license to a specific weapon, then you are opening the door for them to take it to the next level and license all of them. At the end of the day, you would have to pay a whole lot of money to be able to use weapons that you could use prior. And, that money would probably end up in the General Assembly fund instead of back at the DNR where it should be.
Of course, then to justify all the different licenses, they would add different seasons.
And, how would you regulate all of that? I would much rather a game warden worry about poachers shooting deer at night than I would him trying to round up all the guys without the correct license and in the correct season.
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 11, 2005 9:22:49 GMT -5
pwalls, We already have a Chinese fire drill when it comes to licenses too. We need a different tag for just about all of our different hunting tools. It is very confusing.. Adding still another tag for a piece of hunting equipment is absurd. The anti-crossbow people know that but that is one of their defenses against getting crossbows in early archerys season where they most assuredly belong. If we kept on adding tags by the type of equipment we use we could end up with archery season looking like an IBO shoot with all the different classes..
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Post by multidigits on Aug 11, 2005 10:16:11 GMT -5
Question: Has the DNR ever conducted a poll of deer hunters in Indiana on the subject of crossbow expansion? If so, when and where are the results posted. I'm not talking about a group representing 200-300 elitist hunters, but a scientific survey? ? If it has, I'd like to see it.
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Post by kevin1 on Aug 11, 2005 11:35:05 GMT -5
Question: Has the DNR ever conducted a poll of deer hunters in Indiana on the subject of crossbow expansion? If so, when and where are the results posted. I'm not talking about a group representing 200-300 elitist hunters, but a scientific survey? ? If it has, I'd like to see it. I'd like to see that too .
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 11, 2005 11:39:58 GMT -5
Question: Has the DNR ever conducted a poll of deer hunters in Indiana on the subject of crossbow expansion? If so, when and where are the results posted. I'm not talking about a group representing 200-300 elitist hunters, but a scientific survey? ? If it has, I'd like to see it. I've got two crossbow surveys conducted in Indiana back in the 90s IF I can find them on my PC.. My PC filing is terrible.It is a LOT closer to 50 - 50 that some people will care to admit..
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Post by multidigits on Aug 11, 2005 12:11:43 GMT -5
Early 90's is too old. Crossbow is coming and more are for it now than ever. Lets see the data from scientific surveys, not the crap that JB is throwing out. Without it, he's just blowing in the wind. Post up what you have.
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 11, 2005 12:27:03 GMT -5
Early 90's is too old. Crossbow is coming and more are for it now than ever. Lets see the data from scientific surveys, not the crap that JB is throwing out. Without it, he's just blowing in the wind. Post up what you have. This is from 1996 and 1997. I've got to run into Evansville for awhile. I'll post it when I get back. Of course the IDNR is running a survey this year with crossbow legalization as a topic. So is the IDHA...
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 11, 2005 14:58:48 GMT -5
Survey conducted by Massie and Associates in June/July , 1996
The totally random phone survey was of 413 Indiana hunters and was conducted between June 27th and July 8th, 1996.
The question in the survey was:
“As a means of expanding hunting opportunities, do you support or oppose the legalization of crossbows for deer hunting in Indiana?”
The results were:
General Attitude Support – 46% Opposed – 38% Neutral – 15%
Early Archery Support – 48% Opposed – 44% Neutral – 7%
Firearms Support – 26% Opposed – 66% Neutral – 8%
Muzzleloader Support – 32% Opposed – 60% Neutral – 8%
Late Archery Support – 54% Opposed – 39% Neutral – 7%
Special Season Support – 55% Opposed – 36% Neutral – 9%
Margin of error: at a 95% level of confidence, the responses we could expect if we interviewed every Hoosier hunter range from an even 41%:41% split, “support” to “oppose’, to 51% ;33%, “support to “oppose. In other, words the margin of error range demonstrates that the population leans to the “support” view.
Indiana Department of Natural Resources and Responsive Management Survey 4-22-1997
“Licensed deer hunters were asked if they support or oppose the DNR allowing the use of crossbows as a deer hunting weapon beyond the current regulation that allows use by handicapped hunter only. Support and opposition overall was evenly split, although opposers were stronger in their opinion than supporters.
One quarter (25%) of licensed deer hunters strongly supported, 21% moderately supported (46% total support), 14% moderately opposed, and 33% strongly opposed (47% opposition) the DNR allowing crossbows for deer hunting by hunters other than those who are handicapped. Three percent neither supported nor opposed, while 3% did not know.
Strongly Support – 25% Moderately Support – 21% Total Support – 46%
Strongly Opposed - 33% Moderately Opposed- 14% Total Opposed – 47%
WW - When the IDNR survey was broken down to which season it sure looks like everyone does a “not in my backyard routine.” That is when the selfishness raises it’s ugly head.
It’s pretty well a tie in the overall question but it seems that no one wants to share their season with crossbowers. They want “their season” all for themselves..No surprise there and should be a pretty good indicator of the selfishness of some..
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Post by kevin1 on Aug 11, 2005 16:46:05 GMT -5
WW - When the IDNR survey was broken down to which season it sure looks like everyone does a “not in my backyard routine.”
I'm not the least bit surprised by either camp's opinion , but when it comes down to it I firmly believe that DNR will place it in EA long before they ever will in the gun seasons . As I stated at another site awhile back , the gunners just won't have it and they outnumber the bow hunters by far too many to be ignored .
Woody , I also believe that you'll live to see that day .
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Post by cambygsp on Aug 11, 2005 17:10:52 GMT -5
""Support and opposition overall was evenly split, although opposers were stronger in their opinion than supporters."" ***although opposers were stronger in their opinion than supporters.*** lol lol lol lol lol lol In other words, the folks who opose crossbows are more willing to S-t-r-e-t-c-h the truth...lol Woody, That very well may be "their" plan.....but aint it bass akwards? How can you have a license for something that don't exists? ? Lets discuss where it (crossbow) needs to be, THEN see if having a seperate license makes since!!!! An example is this we can hunt with muzzleloaders in the general gun season....but we can't use a "muzzleloader tag" to do so....you must purchase a general firearm tag if you want to hunt with a muzzleloader in the general firearm season......so..... If the crossbow ends up as a legal weapon to use in the general firearms season....WHY? ...would we not be required to use a general firearm tag....just like m/l users? And while we are on it....why not require "regular bow" users to purchase a general firearm tag, if their hunting the general firearm part of the deer season with their "regular bows" ? Any idea??? Joe seems to have this all figured out but seems very un-willing to share his "plan"....wonder why?
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Post by multidigits on Aug 11, 2005 17:23:00 GMT -5
WW - When the IDNR survey was broken down to which season it sure looks like everyone does a “not in my backyard routine.” I'm not the least bit surprised by either camp's opinion , but when it comes down to it I firmly believe that DNR will place it in EA long before they ever will in the gun seasons . As I stated at another site awhile back , the gunners just won't have it and they outnumber the bow hunters by far too many to be ignored . Woody , I also believe that you'll live to see that day . WHY? would gun hunters be against a far less effect weapon than what they now use. Doesn't make sense??
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