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Post by treetop on May 6, 2022 5:18:58 GMT -5
My opinion and post are not about abortion if you read my first post it says regardless of your belief My entire posts have been how I disagree on how all this vote has came about and my own personal concern about what it could lead into I wasn’t referring to you at all...sorry you thought so. Just stating my opinion on the matter regardless on what happens!! Not at all I was try to avoid a fight it’s a touchy subject and I didn’t want to go there, Maybe this was is my last straw it just seems to me our government is doing everything thing back door and with the stroke of a pen it’s law.
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Post by esshup on May 6, 2022 7:42:25 GMT -5
I can’t seem to type what I’m thinking quite right maybe I’m overthinking this but it just seems like this was all done in a back room hush hush and they were going to try and get it passed voted on like everything else. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ There are 2 lines hidden in (added to) the latest Ukraine weapons bill that if not removed, it will allow the Secretary of wildlife stop interstate movement of fish, plants, birds, reptiles and amphibians at the stroke of a pen without any scientific study. How's that for back door sneakiness? It gives him more power over the Lacy Act. That potentially could put ALL fish hatcheries in Arkansas out of business, it sure would put me out of business. Just think of having to source all your batifish from within the state. All fish for pond stocking would have to be sourced within your own state. Hatcheries that have been in business for over a century would be closed. You wouldn't be buying many plants at Walmart, etc. Look at how many florists would potentially be put out of business?
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Post by Woody Williams on May 6, 2022 11:00:20 GMT -5
I can’t seem to type what I’m thinking quite right maybe I’m overthinking this but it just seems like this was all done in a back room hush hush and they were going to try and get it passed voted on like everything else. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ There are 2 lines hidden in (added to) the latest Ukraine weapons bill that if not removed, it will allow the Secretary of wildlife stop interstate movement of fish, plants, birds, reptiles and amphibians at the stroke of a pen without any scientific study. How's that for back door sneakiness? It gives him more power over the Lacy Act. That potentially could put ALL fish hatcheries in Arkansas out of business, it sure would put me out of business. Just think of having to source all your batifish from within the state. All fish for pond stocking would have to be sourced within your own state. Hatcheries that have been in business for over a century would be closed. You wouldn't be buying many plants at Walmart, etc. Look at how many florists would potentially be put out of business? Amendments that have zero to do with the subject line should not be allowed, period. This is how politicians add in their "pork' to get reelected. ALL deliberations by SCOTUS are done without the public being informed of how the process is going. It's been done that way since this country began. That is how it should be. This leak is unprecedented and should never have happened. They are not supposed to be "making laws", but interpreting and offering opinions on existing laws. ALL in my opinion - The passing of Roe V Wade was the SCOTUS making a law and assigning a constitutional right that did not exist. This is rectifying that mistake. It should be up to us citizens whether abortions (or levels of abortions) should be legal or not. Nine unelected judges should not be deciding that.
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Post by Mack Apiary Bees on May 6, 2022 11:18:12 GMT -5
I don't believe in the "Birthday" date. If we could get rid of that date and go with the day or as close as passible of "Conception" as the date then all this would have never happened. One of the bigger brain washing off people. Even most religions are brain washed accepting the "Birthday"
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Post by greghopper on May 6, 2022 11:32:57 GMT -5
I don't believe in the "Birthday" date. If we could get rid of that date and go with the day or as close as passible of "Conception" as the date then all this would have never happened. One of the bigger brain washing off people. Even most religions are brain washed accepting the "Birthday" Good luck with that happening…. “Birthday” is known worldwide
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Post by Woody Williams on May 6, 2022 12:49:42 GMT -5
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Post by jjas on May 6, 2022 13:09:10 GMT -5
Nothing really surprising IMO. Seems like roughly half the country supports abortion rights, half doesn't. Roughly half the country considers themselves Democrats, half considers themselves Republicans or Independents. And so it goes...
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Post by treetop on May 6, 2022 17:09:31 GMT -5
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ There are 2 lines hidden in (added to) the latest Ukraine weapons bill that if not removed, it will allow the Secretary of wildlife stop interstate movement of fish, plants, birds, reptiles and amphibians at the stroke of a pen without any scientific study. How's that for back door sneakiness? It gives him more power over the Lacy Act. That potentially could put ALL fish hatcheries in Arkansas out of business, it sure would put me out of business. Just think of having to source all your batifish from within the state. All fish for pond stocking would have to be sourced within your own state. Hatcheries that have been in business for over a century would be closed. You wouldn't be buying many plants at Walmart, etc. Look at how many florists would potentially be put out of business? Amendments that have zero to do with the subject line should not be allowed, period. This is how politicians add in their "pork' to get reelected. ALL deliberations by SCOTUS are done without the public being informed of how the process is going. It's been done that way since this country began. That is how it should be. This leak is unprecedented and should never have happened. They are not supposed to be "making laws", but interpreting and offering opinions on existing laws. ALL in my opinion - The passing of Roe V Wade was the SCOTUS making a law and assigning a constitutional right that did not exist. This is rectifying that mistake. It should be up to us citizens whether abortions (or levels of abortions) should be legal or not. Nine unelected judges should not be deciding that. The last paragraph is very close to what I was trying to say type yesterday they should not be deciding what’s best for us me you between Scott’s post and this one is how I fill everything gets shoved in hidden than passed and we have no control or say in any of it so what’s next again maybe I need a tin foil hat IDK but I just don’t fill good about this..
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Post by beermaker on May 7, 2022 10:23:56 GMT -5
The liberal obsession with abortion is truly astonishing to me. I just don't get it.
So how is it a womens' issue if they (liberals) refuse to differentiate between man and woman? This is from the same crowd that insisted on vaccine mandates, but cry that women should be in charge of their own health and body when it comes to abortion.
"The one thing that all pro-abortion people have in common is that they have been born." -Ronald Reagan
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Post by Russ Koon on May 7, 2022 22:05:01 GMT -5
I doubt very much that the reversal of Roe will have a serious effect on the number of actual abortions.
More than half of them are currently done by taking pills, and that percentage will only be increased by any further restrictions. Making the pills illegal would probably make the anti's feel better, but would be pretty much impossible to enforce effectively, and would create a lucrative market for smugglers and counterfeiters, just as happened with making marijuana illegal, and with Prohibition.
The most serious effect of the struggle may well be the further loss of political strength of the "conservative" side, which has again managed to be out-maneuvered into a position of taking the side of the minority of the voting public. We will likely lose some congressmen that will be missed when the next battle over gun rights comes to the front of the political scrapping, or end up with even more ridiculous spending measures or immigration mistakes, because they were on the less popular side of the abortion battle. Snatching defeat from the laws of victory seems to be an honored tradition in the GOP. Damned shame, as I have always tended to agree with their positions on most issues and have voted for them until the last couple decades when I've gone mostly Libertarian.
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Post by span870 on May 8, 2022 8:20:17 GMT -5
I doubt very much that the reversal of Roe will have a serious effect on the number of actual abortions. More than half of them are currently done by taking pills, and that percentage will only be increased by any further restrictions. Making the pills illegal would probably make the anti's feel better, but would be pretty much impossible to enforce effectively, and would create a lucrative market for smugglers and counterfeiters, just as happened with making marijuana illegal, and with Prohibition. The most serious effect of the struggle may well be the further loss of political strength of the "conservative" side, which has again managed to be out-maneuvered into a position of taking the side of the minority of the voting public. We will likely lose some congressmen that will be missed when the next battle over gun rights comes to the front of the political scrapping, or end up with even more ridiculous spending measures or immigration mistakes, because they were on the less popular side of the abortion battle. Snatching defeat from the laws of victory seems to be an honored tradition in the GOP. Damned shame, as I have always tended to agree with their positions on most issues and have voted for them until the last couple decades when I've gone mostly Libertarian. Going to tip toe very softly around this subject and try not to interject my feelings or beliefs. Alluding to the "pill" as in plan b or morning after pill. I truly believe if this was all we are talking about then the "acceptance" rate of "abortions" would be more than 3/4 of the population. I think when the abortion goes past the point of heartbeat is when many take a hard stance.
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Post by greghopper on May 8, 2022 8:43:52 GMT -5
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Post by jjas on May 8, 2022 11:10:18 GMT -5
I knew the "plan b" bill existed, but I wasn't aware that the abortion pill did.
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Post by Russ Koon on May 8, 2022 11:21:39 GMT -5
Yes, I was referencing the actual abortion pill, not the birth control pill. That pill could also be the subject of more discussion down the line, though. Last time I looked into them, the ones that were successful in the marketplace were a combination of ingredients that had BOTH contraceptive and abortifacient effects, so they could also be included in the discussion.
I was surprised to read just recently the degree to which the abortion pills had overtaken the other abortion methods already.
That factor makes the more likely result of an overturning of Roe being a surging market (or black market) for the smugglers and counterfeiters. Effective law enforcement would be extremely difficult. If we can only stop a low percentage of the trade of illegal hard drugs that are moved in quantities measured in bushels, I don't give LE much chance of stopping contraband that would fit in a package smaller than a AA battery.
I'm not arguing the morality of the use of any kinds of contraception or abortion, or the comparative rights of a woman to control her own body versus the rights of a zygote to continue to grow inside her. I'm only discussing the most likely results of any change in Roe on the actual people who may be affected directly by it. Fifty years ago when Roe was decided, the choices for the women affected were described as "safe and legal abortions" versus "coat hangers and back alley butchers". The alternatives appear to be much less dire now, for the women. Maybe more severe for the Whigs
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Post by stevein on May 8, 2022 13:38:47 GMT -5
I believe that life begins at conception. I did/do have a stake in this as in 1992 we adopted our son and in 2001 we adopted our daughter. At times I wonder if I have a right to have a say about the conditions an abortion can be performed.
I think what the Judges have said is that Abortion is not a constitunal right and as such it is to be decided by the states. In potentialy overturning they are just saying what several people have said for years that Roe v Wade was a flawed judgement. Since it is not in the Constitution I do not see how Congress can enact laws to make it legal accross the country. That abortion laws are reserved for the states. The courts cannot enact laws, they interpret them. I believe that if congress wants to make abortion legal country wide it will require a constitutional Amendent. The Senate and House do have control of federal money though and can use it to reward states that do as they want and punish states that do not.
This will not settle anything. It will futher devide the country.
So I think the big winners are going to be Lawyers as soon as RvW is officially over turned.
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Post by greghopper on May 9, 2022 6:17:05 GMT -5
I knew the "plan b" bill existed, but I wasn't aware that the abortion pill did. I would think the abortion Pill is not legal now in some states.
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Post by jjas on May 9, 2022 7:32:19 GMT -5
I'm tired of politics pure and simple.
I'm tired of nothing getting accomplished.
I'm tired of people nosing into other people's ownership of firearms and I'm tired of people nosing into other people's decision to end a pregnancy if they choose to do so. Both are currently legal, and if one can be taken away, what makes people think the other can't as well? I'm tired of the same issues being used as political fodder to fire up the political party's bases to help them gain (or regain) control only to accomplish nothing (after the fact) as the losing party then does nothing but obstruct everything the other party is trying to do.
No compromise, no working together, just obstruction.
But most of all, I'm sick and tired of Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Mitch McConnell and Kevin McCarthy. They are responsible for setting the tone of how our government is working (or not working). Based on that, if they want to do the country a favor, they would all retire. They have suckled @ the teat of the federal government for far too long, all the while doing nothing but creating division and running the country into bankruptcy just so they can retain their power.
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Post by SFC (R) B on May 9, 2022 22:07:52 GMT -5
The reality of this decision is NOT about abortion per se. It is about respecting the Constitution as drafted and further amended by the will of the people. There NEVER has been this over arching "right to privacy" with which Roe was so clumsily and laughably boot strapped too. Even liberal professors in law school have always conceded the tenuous and precarious nature of resting on it. The decision was that of a strictly political court who was legislating for the bench at a time of great upheaval in the country.
The reality of the horror of abortion and the disregard for the most vulnerable of all is an entirely different discussion and one meant to be decided by the legislative branch. The ultimate in hypocrisy are the liberals who push gun control fervently as a matter of "child safety" while being fine with +-500k abortion per anum. The real difference? The overwhelming majority of aborted children are poor and of color so the rich, white, elitists have no actual skin in the game other than pandering. Women who want abortions will always have liberal sewers in which to get them if they so choose.
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Post by jjas on May 10, 2022 7:31:02 GMT -5
SFC (R) B
And the above is yet another illustration of how intertwined these two issues are and what a stranglehold they have on this country.
Meanwhile, the United States continues to spin it's wheels and spend itself into bankruptcy while the political elite (McConnell, Schumer, Pelosi, and McCarthy) continue to hold onto power and obstruct any real compromise (and thus progress) from being made to help this country manage it's financial house.
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Post by greyhair on May 12, 2022 11:34:29 GMT -5
The Court should not make liberal or conservative decisions. They should make constitutional decisions. They have lost that focus. This is because the Executive and Legislative branches place Justices based on their political leanings.
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