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Post by esshup on Dec 12, 2016 7:03:47 GMT -5
I was going to put this reply in "Live from the Stand" but I think it is better to start a new thread so I don't take the other one off track.
I don't know how easily a ML-I can be converted over to .45 Cal, but an ML-II is easy to convert. Using a .45, and by buying the right bullets, powder and practicing, it can be a 400 yard muzzleloader in the right hands, and a 300 yd muzzleloader easily.
Now before anybody jumps up and says that it's not right to shoot that far, I would say I agree with them, and it's great that they know their limitations. But don't tell me that I can't or shouldn't shoot that far just because they can't. People like that usually don't take the time to practice, dial in the gun and load, and buy the equipment to get a correct distance to the deer. Just like bow hunting, I don't practice enough to have confidence in my shooting past about 20 yds. Do I say that other people shooting past that distance shouldn't shoot that far? Nope.
I would have to look at the numbers because I haven't used my .50 cal ML-I savage in years, but shooting 200 yds with it is not a big deal. 300 may be the limit due to how fast the bullet can be pushed without a BUNCH of recoil. Shooting groups at less than 1" center to center at 100 yds is easily done with that muzzleloader.
With my .45 and saboted bullets, I am comfortable shooting (from a type of rest) out to 325 yds or so, and if I were to switch to sabotless, I can confidently say I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a deer at 400 yds. if the deer was calm and the weather conditions were right. Deer activity and weather conditions play more into how far I will shoot a deer than anything else.
Yes I am fortunate that I can practice here behind the house out to 400 yds. If I couldn't practice that far, there is no way I would shoot that far.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2016 7:23:28 GMT -5
My brother a couple years ago shot a buck at 265 yards out of the barn with the same or very similar set-up. He practices up to 300 yards and that is why he has no reason to purchase a HPR.
From 1987 to 2015 I only practiced my bow up to 40 yards, but last year I started seriously to practices at 50 yards. This year I took my longest compound shot at 47, so you are right, practice and practice. Next summer moving out to 60 yards or 70 yards. I think that will be my max.
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Post by davers on Dec 12, 2016 8:31:20 GMT -5
Does Savage still offer these smokeless powder muzzle loader currently? If not why, as it seems they would be good sellers instead of the old Black powder/pyrodex/triple "7" powders only M/L's.
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Post by onebentarrow on Dec 12, 2016 9:20:54 GMT -5
Does Savage still offer these smokeless powder muzzle loader currently? If not why, as it seems they would be good sellers instead of the old Black powder/pyrodex/triple "7" powders only M/L's. I had this nice long explanation typed up but it just dissappeared, so now the short verson. No and unjust lawsuits for blowup that were proven to be caused by owners mistakes. There are numerous guns that can be converted to a smokeless muzzeloader. Go to dougs or hanks message boards and do a bunch of reading, there is a BUNCH of great info there.
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Post by davers on Dec 12, 2016 9:40:15 GMT -5
Does Savage still offer these smokeless powder muzzle loader currently? If not why, as it seems they would be good sellers instead of the old Black powder/pyrodex/triple "7" powders only M/L's. I had this nice long explanation typed up but it just dissappeared, so now the short verson. No and unjust lawsuits for blowup that were proven to be caused by owners mistakes. There are numerous guns that can be converted to a smokeless muzzeloader. Go to dougs or hanks message boards and do a bunch of reading, there is a BUNCH of great info there. Thanks for the information. Sounds like these smokeless powder M/L's are dangerous.
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Post by davers on Dec 12, 2016 9:58:23 GMT -5
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Post by deadeer on Dec 12, 2016 10:25:24 GMT -5
I have heard these types of guns can get the job done.
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Post by swilk on Dec 12, 2016 12:48:29 GMT -5
Thanks for the information. Sounds like these smokeless powder M/L's are dangerous. All firearms can be dangerous in the wrong hands ..... other than that the smokeless MZ's are no more or less dangerous than any other.
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Post by onebentarrow on Dec 12, 2016 12:53:32 GMT -5
I had this nice long explanation typed up but it just dissappeared, so now the short verson. No and unjust lawsuits for blowup that were proven to be caused by owners mistakes. There are numerous guns that can be converted to a smokeless muzzeloader. Go to dougs or hanks message boards and do a bunch of reading, there is a BUNCH of great info there. Thanks for the information. Sounds like these smokeless powder M/L's are dangerous. They are no more dangerous then hand loaded amo for a 30-06. You as the operator MUST be dieled in to what you are doing when shooting them. Most 99.9% of the problems came from double powder charge or double bullets put down the barrel because of lack of consentration at the range. They are not quite like every other gun, you need to be more respectful of them (almost afraid) so that YOU do not screw up when loading them. To my knolledge there have not been any accidents in the field with one because it is loaded befor going and quick loads are taken in the field just like any other muzzeloader. If you have ever hand loaded you have a good jump on any one starting from scratch. Just like hand loading, each charge needs to be WEIGHED on a scale not dumped in a volume messurements cilinder. Then stored in a container to be used at a later date. If you would like more information pm me and I will send you my phone no. Onebentarrow
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Post by onebentarrow on Dec 12, 2016 13:10:49 GMT -5
Go to this sight dougsmessageboards.proboards.com/board/23/savage-smokeless-muzzleloadingAnd do a bunch of reading. Most smokeless muzzeloaders are pricey but if you hunt on this board there is some that can be built at a lesser cost. They are not the guns that will shoot 5 in groups at 600 yards but they will shoot minute of deer to 3-400 yards. Do not quote me on this but I think a guy may be able to get one for around a 1000 bucks and have a very good deer gun. There are also builders on this board that will do it for you or if you have some knolledge they will instruct you how to do it your self, what you need,where to get it and how to put it together.
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Post by davers on Dec 12, 2016 13:37:22 GMT -5
Thanks for the information. Sounds like these smokeless powder M/L's are dangerous. They are no more dangerous then hand loaded amo for a 30-06. You as the operator MUST be dieled in to what you are doing when shooting them. Most 99.9% of the problems came from double powder charge or double bullets put down the barrel because of lack of consentration at the range. They are not quite like every other gun, you need to be more respectful of them (almost afraid) so that YOU do not screw up when loading them. To my knolledge there have not been any accidents in the field with one because it is loaded befor going and quick loads are taken in the field just like any other muzzeloader. If you have ever hand loaded you have a good jump on any one starting from scratch. Just like hand loading, each charge needs to be WEIGHED on a scale not dumped in a volume messurements cilinder. Then stored in a container to be used at a later date. If you would like more information pm me and I will send you my phone no. Onebentarrow Thanks, but I am certain they are safe when used and loaded correctly. I was just curious that you don't hear much about them these days.
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Post by swilk on Dec 12, 2016 13:58:43 GMT -5
If youre not hearing much about them you arent listening in the right places .... go to dougs message boards. There are guys on this site that have them too, me included. I have 2 of them.
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Post by GS1 on Dec 12, 2016 14:39:30 GMT -5
Mine is my favorite gun.
Wish I had another one.
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Post by onebentarrow on Dec 12, 2016 14:54:09 GMT -5
If youre not hearing much about them you arent listening in the right places .... go to dougs message boards. There are guys on this site that have them too, me included. I have 2 of them. Me too.
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Post by M4Madness on Dec 12, 2016 16:20:13 GMT -5
I don't know how easily a ML-I can be converted over to .45 Cal, but an ML-II is easy to convert. Using a .45, and by buying the right bullets, powder and practicing, it can be a 400 yard muzzleloader in the right hands, and a 300 yd muzzleloader easily. I saw a brief mention of .45 conversions the other day on Doug's site when I was browsing. I was wondering about it when I saw it. If the barrel is .45 caliber, do you use a smaller bullet in a sabot? Obviously you aren't cramming a standard .45 bullet down the barrel. As I mentioned in the other thread, I only have use for one muzzleloader (THE HORROR! LOL!), so I'll be selling my T/C Omega Z5 and accessories if I buy this Savage. Proboards don't allow firearms to be listed for sale in their classifieds, so you guys know how to reach me. Lol! I'm supposed to look at the Savage tomorrow.
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Dec 12, 2016 16:23:28 GMT -5
What exactly is a smokeless muzzleloader?
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Post by M4Madness on Dec 12, 2016 16:31:20 GMT -5
What exactly is a smokeless muzzleloader? It uses regular powder that you would load brass cartridges with, instead of black powder or one of its substitutes. It generates too much pressure to be used in a standard muzzleloader, so it can only be used in those that are designed for it. Using smokeless powder in a regular muzzleloader would have disastrous results.
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Post by boman on Dec 12, 2016 17:42:57 GMT -5
David, You actually have two choices. shooting a 40 cal saboted bullet or running a 45 cal bullet thru a sizing die and loading it bare. I have a Remington 700ml that I put a McGowen 45 cal (.458) barrel on and shoot a Barnes 195grain 40cal copper ml bullet with sabot and get results as essup testifies to. This rifle generates 2700 to 2750 fps with 62 grains of 4198 smokeless powder and is more accurate than either of my 358 wssm's. As others have said, Doug's message boards have more than enough info for anyone wanting to get into smokeless as another option. In your case it might make sense if you want to get into shooting at ranges since you have the ability to see deer cross some of the pastures where you hunt.
Steve
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Post by M4Madness on Dec 12, 2016 18:24:30 GMT -5
My main reason for interest in a smokeless muzzleloader is that I hate cleaning a regular one. LOL! I used to own a Remington 700ML, but sold it to a coworker. In fact, I used to own a Savage 10ML as well, but sold it to a different coworker before I ever shot it.
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Post by Jamie Brooks 1John5:13 on Dec 12, 2016 18:50:37 GMT -5
Do you fellas ever think about giving these things away to poor hunter? I'm not talking about me, but I sure know a few.
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