|
Post by bowhunterjohn on Dec 25, 2015 7:11:16 GMT -5
I have been wondering this year if the fawn crop the last few years has been down . Fewer doe having fawns , not that there aren't mature does, that they are just not having offspring ? Just an angle I have seen about the same populations at the 5 different farms I have hunted now for years, the only one that I have seen a drastic decline is the last year is the Miami county farm. We could just be on a declining phase. The worry should begin if we see this trend over 5-8 years Concerning the drop in birth of fawns, in recent years. I have a pet theory that G.M.O. crops [MIGHT] be affecting the birth rate of Deer as well as other wildlife species that consume G.M.O or "Round-up Ready" crops. I am concerned that future generations of Deer offspring will be more & more affected. Bucks & Doe could become infertile, just after a few generations. Also, how are these affecting the "Human" population & general health? I'd agree with that ... I've wondered the same , how are these altered crops affecting all life...
|
|
|
Post by bowhunterjohn on Dec 25, 2015 7:20:08 GMT -5
Every one blames coyotes I've been interested in coyotes since they came into the picture in the early 70,s One thing I have learned whether you believe it or not If the Coyotes disappear Then you had better start worrying Coyotes will NOT over populate If there is plenty of food They will have plenty of pups If they don't have sufficient food the litters ate smaller Killing coyotes where there is plenty of food just causes them to have larger litters to make up for the loss Coyotes mate for life You kill one or the other it will be replaced If coyotes disappear somethings wrong the prefers food is Rodents Manage good Habitate for those And you have good Habitate for fawns to hide in I have lots of deer and coyotes I also have good Habitate I loose more deer to early hay mowing and Road kills in my neighbor hood than anything Two yrs ago 6 fawns mown over and 7 to Autos Within 2miles the fawns were from my close neighbors great point.. I have trapped hundreds of coyotes and examined most of their stomach contents.. most have birds, mice and rabbits in them. We always see that game pic of a coyote with a fawn in its mouth, but its hard to tell if that fawn was already dead or not. I read years ago the biggest killer of fawns is respiratory failure due to aspiration , basically feeding too fast and swallowing milk into the lungs and getting pneumonia. No doubt coyotes take some live fawns. I believe the best thing we hunters can do is put out mineral sites right after season or when we are done hunting so doe can have nutrients they need to produce healthy fawns and bucks can replenish after the rut.
|
|
|
Post by firstwd on Dec 25, 2015 8:55:33 GMT -5
With everything on the market and people put out to "help" the deer survive over the last 10 to 20 years it makes me wonder how in the world we ever got to the incredible high deer numbers of the mid to late 90's on nature's skills alone.
Feral dogs are plain evil. We had a pack in the 80's that ran the creek valley behind my house between several hog farms. With open season and a call for community help it took a few months to wipe them out. Coyote are becoming less and less human wary. I've seen evidence of them making a major dent in the local kid crop on sheep and goats farms, and they are a major detriment to fox populations. They do generally eat small rodents, but like everything else they will eat what is easiest to catch. With the shift in farming operations the cover needed for rabbits, quail, and even mice is no longer as readily available as it once was. Now combine that with a booming deer population dropping these small nuggets of easy meals seemingly everywhere right when the coyotes are needing the extra nutrition to raise their litters then the deer are the ones that suffer.
If you have any doubt that coyote are a general problem, just look back over the news stories the last few years about the lost pet population in Greenwood and Noblesville.
|
|
|
Post by tynimiller on Dec 28, 2015 8:43:20 GMT -5
firstwd love the post and agree with it! Feral dogs are plain evil no doubt and sadly coyotes are doing just what you have described.
|
|
|
Post by nfalls116 on Jan 2, 2016 16:31:20 GMT -5
In throwing the towel in tomorrow night if I don't get anything by then.
|
|
|
Post by greyhair on Jan 4, 2016 21:36:20 GMT -5
Darn good point drs. There is definitely something going on. GMO' s are quietly sneaking up on us for lack of a better term. Not to be a tinfoil hat guy, but crop modification could be affecting a lot of things, wildlife reproduction included. Read up on Monsanto. I believe they are working actively on genetically engineered bees for pollination, for rent of course, since most of the native population has succumbed to a massive decline.
|
|
|
Post by nodog on Jan 4, 2016 23:25:28 GMT -5
the state allowed every person who hunted your state to kill 300+/- does. That 1 fact is the reason you never harvest many. Because of that 1 fact you haven't the herd that can take a hit and grow.
The reason deer went on the endangered species list long ago was because of the slaughtering of the breeders, this is well known and doing it again will have the same result.
Captive deer breed EHD and the like. Your state has allowed this to happen as well.
The last undeniable fact is the deer herd is controlled by an entity that is HIGHLY INEFFICIENT AND GROSSLY ABUSIVE OF POWER, of course the management of deer will be handled poorly. Of course they don't want the money made from deer hunting to go away, that does not mean it will do a good job, it doesn't have too. The money will continue on a voluntary basis till it is taken and it will be taken when hunters stop hunting.
Lest anyone think I blame government for being what it is or claim government is the answer to the problem let me say this, you're dead wrong. The people hold the answer to governments power and are the answer to every problem. Government must be what it is because if it isn't we will destroy ourselves before we know what happened. Government sole source of blood is hate between the people, when people abuse the freedoms of others for personal gain government is empowered, as the abuse grows so does government. Government in all it abuse gives the people time to under stand "what's happened" and a chance to change. People didn't give a crap about anyone else when the herd was killed off before and hated the Native American (We wanted to starve them out), That's why government got empowered to take over the management of natural resources. If it wasn't for that we would be (most) living on rocks.
I come and go on these boards taking a pulse of the people looking to see if people have finally had enough and are attempting a change of heart. Most of what I hear today is greater hate along with government using social media trying to convince people they are not highly inefficient and grossly abusing the power they have over the herd.
Government used the herd which now has a value to many more than just hunters to make deals. Government makes deals with the Sodom's of the world when it benefits them and then uses the resources of the people to fight against them. In this case government has made deals with entities who are directly opposed to hunting and the hunter counting on the love the hunters have to keep the cash flowing from both directions.
The Ag department is one of those groups against the hunter, but follow the money. Hunter A goes hunting, fills his freezer and feeds his family. The AG department blames the deer for depleting it's crop, government makes a deal with the AG to reduse the herd, a herd that isn't large enough as it is. What happens to Hunter A? Not only has he wasted time and money chasing the few deer left he must now buy meat to feed his family, meet is a by product of AG.
Here in Ohio millions upon millions of pounds of venison are no longer going in to freezers and the number 1 reason is the state allowed millions upon millions of antlerless tags to be sold, Here the reasons were the same except it was more personal, the governer needed a war chest to run for President. If he does for the nation what he's down here there will be no natural resources of this nation that won't be up for sale so people like him can make money off of it.
|
|
|
Post by drs on Jan 5, 2016 5:35:56 GMT -5
Darn good point drs. There is definitely something going on. GMO' s are quietly sneaking up on us for lack of a better term. Not to be a tinfoil hat guy, but crop modification could be affecting a lot of things, wildlife reproduction included. Read up on Monsanto. I believe they are working actively on genetically engineered bees for pollination, for rent of course, since most of the native population has succumbed to a massive decline. Please believe that G.M.O. & Roundup-ready crops ARE or WILL play a large role in how many Deer & other wildlife will be around in coming generations. I've and several other Hunters have seen a HUGE drop in the number of Cottontail Rabbits & Quail; to the point I don't even hunt them anymore. This will happen to the Deer Population and possibly the Squirrel population too given a few years, as their succeeding offspring start to become unable to reproduce, due to physical changes to their reproductive systems.
|
|
|
Post by Land Between the Lakes on Jan 8, 2016 16:22:45 GMT -5
It would seem with all of the food plots, increased knowledge, and better equipment that the deer harvest would be even higher than it is.
And has there been an increase in hunter numbers in recent years? I believe I read a USFWS report recently that said more hunting licenses are being sold these days compared to the last few decades.
Many statistics are not accurate, people take deer and don't check them in, people hunt without licenses even though they need one. And of course in most states if your a landowner you don't even have to buy a hunting license. So the truth is nobody actually knows how many hunters there are, it's impossible to get an accurate number. And it's impossible to get an accurate number on how many deer are actually taken each season.
|
|
|
Post by Land Between the Lakes on Jan 8, 2016 16:24:26 GMT -5
Darn good point drs. There is definitely something going on. GMO' s are quietly sneaking up on us for lack of a better term. Not to be a tinfoil hat guy, but crop modification could be affecting a lot of things, wildlife reproduction included. Read up on Monsanto. I believe they are working actively on genetically engineered bees for pollination, for rent of course, since most of the native population has succumbed to a massive decline. Please believe that G.M.O. & Roundup-ready crops ARE or WILL play a large role in how many Deer & other wildlife will be around in coming generations. I've and several other Hunters have seen a HUGE drop in the number of Cottontail Rabbits & Quail; to the point I don't even hunt them anymore. This will happen to the Deer Population and possibly the Squirrel population too given a few years, as their succeeding offspring start to become unable to reproduce, due to physical changes to their reproductive systems. This is true. There have been several studies done that show how GMO crops have a very negative impact on the reproductive functions of deer and other wildlife.
|
|
|
Post by Woody Williams on Jan 8, 2016 18:04:46 GMT -5
It would seem with all of the food plots, increased knowledge, and better equipment that the deer harvest would be even higher than it is. And has there been an increase in hunter numbers in recent years? I believe I read a USFWS report recently that said more hunting licenses are being sold these days compared to the last few decades. Many statistics are not accurate, people take deer and don't check them in, people hunt without licenses even though they need one. And of course in most states if your a landowner you don't even have to buy a hunting license. So the truth is nobody actually knows how many hunters there are, it's impossible to get an accurate number. And it's impossible to get an accurate number on how many deer are actually taken each season. Define "accurate"....
|
|
|
Post by bullseye69 on Jan 8, 2016 18:19:34 GMT -5
the state allowed every person who hunted your state to kill 300+/- does. That 1 fact is the reason you never harvest many. Because of that 1 fact you haven't the herd that can take a hit and grow. The reason deer went on the endangered species list long ago was because of the slaughtering of the breeders, this is well known and doing it again will have the same result. Captive deer breed EHD and the like. Your state has allowed this to happen as well. The last undeniable fact is the deer herd is controlled by an entity that is HIGHLY INEFFICIENT AND GROSSLY ABUSIVE OF POWER, of course the management of deer will be handled poorly. Of course they don't want the money made from deer hunting to go away, that does not mean it will do a good job, it doesn't have too. The money will continue on a voluntary basis till it is taken and it will be taken when hunters stop hunting. Lest anyone think I blame government for being what it is or claim government is the answer to the problem let me say this, you're dead wrong. The people hold the answer to governments power and are the answer to every problem. Government must be what it is because if it isn't we will destroy ourselves before we know what happened. Government sole source of blood is hate between the people, when people abuse the freedoms of others for personal gain government is empowered, as the abuse grows so does government. Government in all it abuse gives the people time to under stand "what's happened" and a chance to change. People didn't give a crap about anyone else when the herd was killed off before and hated the Native American (We wanted to starve them out), That's why government got empowered to take over the management of natural resources. If it wasn't for that we would be (most) living on rocks. I come and go on these boards taking a pulse of the people looking to see if people have finally had enough and are attempting a change of heart. Most of what I hear today is greater hate along with government using social media trying to convince people they are not highly inefficient and grossly abusing the power they have over the herd. Government used the herd which now has a value to many more than just hunters to make deals. Government makes deals with the Sodom's of the world when it benefits them and then uses the resources of the people to fight against them. In this case government has made deals with entities who are directly opposed to hunting and the hunter counting on the love the hunters have to keep the cash flowing from both directions. The Ag department is one of those groups against the hunter, but follow the money. Hunter A goes hunting, fills his freezer and feeds his family. The AG department blames the deer for depleting it's crop, government makes a deal with the AG to reduse the herd, a herd that isn't large enough as it is. What happens to Hunter A? Not only has he wasted time and money chasing the few deer left he must now buy meat to feed his family, meet is a by product of AG. Here in Ohio millions upon millions of pounds of venison are no longer going in to freezers and the number 1 reason is the state allowed millions upon millions of antlerless tags to be sold, Here the reasons were the same except it was more personal, the governer needed a war chest to run for President. If he does for the nation what he's down here there will be no natural resources of this nation that won't be up for sale so people like him can make money off of it. I would also add insurance companies into the fold of getting them to release more antlerless tags.
|
|
|
Post by tynimiller on Jan 8, 2016 19:48:25 GMT -5
While yes a hunter can or could go county to county and harvest as many does as stated...there is an extremely low number of hunters that harvest just over 3...let alone ever even hit double digits. Just a note.
|
|
|
Post by M4Madness on Jan 8, 2016 20:46:56 GMT -5
I'll go on the record and state that I do not believe that antlerless tags are decimating the herd. There, I said it.
|
|
|
Post by duff on Jan 9, 2016 6:37:47 GMT -5
And I would love to see the facts that hunting was the sole reason deer or any animal have become rare, endangered or threatened.
Let's not forget of wide spread habitat changes, human growth etc.
Indiana was clear cut in the late 1800s early 1900. Look at brown county and the HNF. they were taken over by gov't because the farmers couldn't earn money growing crops ther. The Tipton Till area was swamp and woods. Now it is all corn and people with lowest deer density in the state.
I get a bit bummed when hunters want to blame hunting for certain issues. Hunting may have contributed but was not the root cause.
|
|
|
Post by boonechaser on Jan 9, 2016 15:39:21 GMT -5
Have had cam's out since first week December over mineral sites and feed station's and I am seeing lot's and lot's of antlerless and several decent buck's on my farm. No shortage of either and plan on keeping it that way.
|
|
|
Post by Land Between the Lakes on Jan 10, 2016 14:36:02 GMT -5
Another reason people often don't think about for why they may be seeing less deer in some areas is a result of food plots. What I mean by this is with so many people using food plots now days that has to alter deer home ranges and movements.
So lets say you were seeing 10 deer per day on your property a few years ago, and none of the surrounding farms had food plots.
Now today all of the surrounding farms have started planting food plots. Surely that is going to have some type of effect on how many deer you see. This is probably happening across the state.
The deer could still be around, they are now just more concentrated in certain places where there are food plots instead of being more scattered like they used to be.
And of course there are more coyotes now than at any time before. They can have a very negative effect on fawn numbers.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2016 14:47:52 GMT -5
Another reason people often don't think about for why they may be seeing less deer in some areas is a result of food plots. What I mean by this is with so many people using food plots now days that has to alter deer home ranges and movements. So lets say you were seeing 10 deer per day on your property a few years ago, and none of the surrounding farms had food plots. Now today all of the surrounding farms have started planting food plots. Surely that is going to have some type of effect on how many deer you see. This is probably happening across the state. The deer could still be around, they are now just more concentrated in certain places where there are food plots instead of being more scattered like they used to be. And of course there are more coyotes now than at any time before. They can have a very negative effect on fawn numbers. I agree. I had this issue starting two years ago. I just had to change my hunting pattern to the new deer traveling pattern.
|
|
|
Post by freedomhunter on Jan 10, 2016 16:40:41 GMT -5
Bedding areas and sanctuaries are more important than food plots if you want to keep deer on your property. Deer can and will eat almost anything if they can keep from being hunted. Indiana hunters are seeing less deer, because there are less deer imo
|
|
|
Post by swilk on Jan 10, 2016 16:58:59 GMT -5
As a guy who has plenty of bedding cover and sanctuary security I will agree those are top of the list but deer will still travel outside that security to eat.
Put food inside that cover and its a winning combination.
|
|