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Post by drs on Jul 25, 2015 4:04:33 GMT -5
4227 was the recommended powder that was temp sensitive . It cost me 2 deer and a silver tipped black yote by not firing when I was hunting in 0 TO 10° weather. I have been using 5744 and not had any problems and on dougs they are using it as a booster( poor in 7 to 11 grains then 40 to 60 gr of another powder) for temp sensitive powder Several years ago, I was in the market to purchase a M/L that used smokeless powder, and looked at one of the Savage Models. The Clerk whom I spoke with said that SR-4759 was the proper powder to use. I pondered over the purchase, but decided not to buy this type of M/L that used Smokeless powder; instead I purchased my current M/L a T/C Black Diamond which has served me well. I have a Friend, which I use to hunt with, that personally knew Tobby Bridges who is an expert on M/L having several articles published in the Gun Digest books. Well one of the Savages Blew-up on Tobby, lucky he was not injured, but he spent a lot of time to try to figure out why this Savage blew-up on him. |
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Post by nfalls116 on Jul 25, 2015 5:07:15 GMT -5
4227 was the recommended powder that was temp sensitive . It cost me 2 deer and a silver tipped black yote by not firing when I was hunting in 0 TO 10° weather. I have been using 5744 and not had any problems and on dougs they are using it as a booster( poor in 7 to 11 grains then 40 to 60 gr of another powder) for temp sensitive powder Several years ago, I was in the market to purchase a M/L that used smokeless powder, and looked at one of the Savage Models. The Clerk whom I spoke with said that SR-4759 was the proper powder to use. I pondered over the purchase, but decided not to buy this type of M/L that used Smokeless powder; instead I purchased my current M/L a T/C Black Diamond which has served me well. I have a Friend, which I use to hunt with, that personally knew Tobby Bridges who is an expert on M/L having several articles published in the Gun Digest books. Well one of the Savages Blew-up on Tobby, lucky he was not injured, but he spent a lot of time to try to figure out why this Savage blew-up on him. and he figured out it was due to?? |
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Post by swilk on Jul 25, 2015 7:15:51 GMT -5
It was due to user error....
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Post by drs on Jul 25, 2015 7:22:17 GMT -5
It was due to user error.... Too much of the wrong type smokeless powder?? I read Tobby Bridges said it might be due to inadequate threading of the barrel into the action, not enough threads to make the rifle secure.  |
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Post by swilk on Jul 25, 2015 7:43:47 GMT -5
There's enough information out there to come to your own conclusions on what happened.
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Post by drs on Jul 25, 2015 9:00:02 GMT -5
There's enough information out there to come to your own conclusions on what happened. What's your explanation, swilk? |
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Post by omegahunter on Jul 25, 2015 10:42:19 GMT -5
I'm pushing the .40 cal. Barnes 195g FB bullet at 2850 fps and accuracy at 100 yds. is right around 1/2 moa. Using the blue sabot and H-4198 powder. That is the combination I settled on for my Encore smokeless. I have not taken the time to chrono the load, but I am using 60 grains H4198. I was using the 200 XTP since it seemed that a lot on Doug's was shooting them. After having two grenades on a couple antlerless last year, I invested in Barnes to drop in the sabots. I did not lose either deer, but there was lead and jacket shrapnel for quite a distance away from the bullet paths. Last month my wife found a flat piece of lead about the diameter of a pencil eraser in her tenderloin strip. That deer was hit dead through the heart and that piece of lead traveled that far!! |
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Post by drs on Jul 26, 2015 4:57:57 GMT -5
That is the combination I settled on for my Encore smokeless. I have not taken the time to chrono the load, but I am using 60 grains H4198. I was using the 200 XTP since it seemed that a lot on Doug's was shooting them. After having two grenades on a couple antlerless last year, I invested in Barnes to drop in the sabots. I did not lose either deer, but there was lead and jacket shrapnel for quite a distance away from the bullet paths. Last month my wife found a flat piece of lead about the diameter of a pencil eraser in her tenderloin strip. That deer was hit dead through the heart and that piece of lead traveled that far!! WOW Jason!! I am sitting here and wondering what the level of recoil you endured with that load of 60 grain of H-4198, along with a 200 grain XTP bullet. I have a custom rifle chambered for the .458 X 2" American and use a 300 grain with 42.0 grains of 4198, and it kicks like the devil.  Can't imagine what the recoil would be using 60 grains of 4198 powder. |
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Post by esshup on Jul 27, 2015 8:23:15 GMT -5
drs, what's the weight of your rifle?
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Post by drs on Jul 27, 2015 8:53:15 GMT -5
drs, what's the weight of your rifle? My T/C Black Diamond weighs around 6.5-7 pounds. ~guessing~ I've never weighed it. |
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Post by esshup on Jul 27, 2015 12:37:21 GMT -5
drs, what's the weight of your rifle? My T/C Black Diamond weighs around 6.5-7 pounds. ~guessing~ I've never weighed it. My ML-II is tipping the scale at 9 3/4#. I'm loading a wee bit over 70 grains. of H-4198 |
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Post by lawrencecountyhunter on Jul 27, 2015 20:05:34 GMT -5
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Post by GS1 on Jul 27, 2015 21:18:29 GMT -5
My T/C Black Diamond weighs around 6.5-7 pounds. ~guessing~ I've never weighed it. My ML-II is tipping the scale at 9 3/4#. I'm loading a wee bit over 70 grains. of H-4198 I think I was shooting either 64 or 67 grains with a 300 gr. Hornady out of my synthetic/stainless ML-II and it almost hurt  But it shot great. |
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Post by drs on Jul 28, 2015 4:38:46 GMT -5
Interesting article, however what does it have to do with the subject of this particular thread, "Remington 700 Ultimate Muzzle loader"?? Also this Toby Bridges mentioned in the article might be another person who happened to have the same name. The Toby Bridges I was referring to lives in Illinois. |
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Post by lawrencecountyhunter on Jul 28, 2015 7:29:08 GMT -5
Interesting article, however what does it have to do with the subject of this particular thread, "Remington 700 Ultimate Muzzle loader"?? Also this Toby Bridges mentioned in the article might be another person who happened to have the same name. The Toby Bridges I was referring to lives in Illinois. DRS - You were asking specifically how it could have been that Toby Bridges' muzzleloader exploded. I haven't shot a "Remington 700 Ultimate Muzzle loader", but was pointing out that this man's account might/might not be true.
I guess it is possible it was another Toby Bridges your friend was referring to, but the one referenced in the article sells muzzleloaders for a living and has fought to begin a muzzleloader-only hunting season in MT.
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Post by esshup on Jul 28, 2015 22:10:26 GMT -5
My ML-II is tipping the scale at 9 3/4#. I'm loading a wee bit over 70 grains. of H-4198 I think I was shooting either 64 or 67 grains with a 300 gr. Hornady out of my synthetic/stainless ML-II and it almost hurt But it shot great. I used a lead sled to do a ladder load test to find the sweet spot. Using IMR-4198 it shot terrible. I use the lead sled to do load development and "gun" accuracy testing. Only after the load has proven to be accurate will I subject myself to the abuse.  |
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Post by omegahunter on Jul 31, 2015 10:32:20 GMT -5
WOW Jason!! I am sitting here and wondering what the level of recoil you endured with that load of 60 grain of H-4198, along with a 200 grain XTP bullet. I have a custom rifle chambered for the .458 X 2" American and use a 300 grain with 42.0 grains of 4198, and it kicks like the devil. Can't imagine what the recoil would be using 60 grains of 4198 powder. The barrel I have was MagnaPorted and it apparently takes a lot of recoil and muzzle jump out of it. The second antlerless that I shot with it last year I could see its head snap back and fall through the scope. Only the head and upper neck were exposed from behind a large tree and I took the shot I was given. Pretty much just put it on the bottom of the throat patch and squeezed it off. DRT. Bullet weight makes a huge difference in recoil. My daughter loves to shoot her .35 Remington with lower end 158 grain bullet loads. She will only take a couple shots at a sit when loaded with lower end 180 grain bullet loads. |
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Post by drs on Aug 1, 2015 8:18:04 GMT -5
The barrel I have was MagnaPorted and it apparently takes a lot of recoil and muzzle jump out of it. The second antlerless that I shot with it last year I could see its head snap back and fall through the scope. Only the head and upper neck were exposed from behind a large tree and I took the shot I was given. Pretty much just put it on the bottom of the throat patch and squeezed it off. DRT. Bullet weight makes a huge difference in recoil. My daughter loves to shoot her .35 Remington with lower end 158 grain bullet loads. She will only take a couple shots at a sit when loaded with lower end 180 grain bullet loads. Yeah, the ported barrel was a good idea. Before Indiana allowed PCR for Deer Hunting; I was using my Dad's Ithica Model 37 12 gauge Pump, in which I ordered a slug barrel with open sights. MAN DID THAT THING KICK!!! In fact, I injured a nerve in my back while sighting it in back in 1989, this now prevents me from hunting with a compound bow, so I switched to using my Black Diamond .50 cal using 250 grain .451" Hornady XTPs and 90,0 grain (Volume) of Triple 7 FFG. I just recently purchased one of those CZ Model 527 in 7.62 X 39 m/m carbines, which is a very light rifle with recoil about like a .243. If they ever allow the use of rifles under .357" bullet diameter, this would make a great rifle for your Daughter. |
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Can't imagine what the recoil would be using 60 grains of 4198 powder.
