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Post by hunterman on Feb 23, 2015 20:02:18 GMT -5
We often see more deer on the state and lease properties than on the preserve. Even hunters know the state park huts are for reduction purposes. Talk about fish in a barrel. On a good preserve you absolutely will not notice any difference from how you normally hunt anywhere else. The only difference is you can let 2 and 3 yr olds walk knowing they wont be killed until mature. The deers actions and instincts are the same. Another misconception is the cost. You will spend as much money on a guided free range hunt in Indiana and Illinois than you will for a 150 class deer on a preserve.
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Post by shouldernuke on Feb 23, 2015 20:02:38 GMT -5
Actually I have been on two Mil refuge hunts years ago that were HF! Does that count? Also it seems to me that here as I was accused of not long ago like to paint with a broad brush !!Just saying I am not the only one I guess . FYI at Tippecanoe state park about 10 or so years ago my partner and I set up beside the park and waited on a deer on the special hunt day .We watched two herds of deer actually never break the park boundary and continue to circle one group had 5 in it and they were all shot on their last pass after 5 circles in that outcrop of the parks by 3 hunters inside we witnessed it all and could not believe . But why would the ranger tell us that was common and we witnessed it ... Now discredit me and my statements if you like since it opposes what you think that's ok I know what I saw twice and what the rangers later told us .
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Post by hunterman on Feb 23, 2015 20:13:58 GMT -5
woody, canned hunting is killing a deer that has no chance to evade or is not smart enough to evade and can happen on either side of the fence. Go to your local sport shop and watch the truck loads of deer come in. One of the most poplar techniques is killing the doe so the two babies will stand around not knowing what to do so you can kill them too. How can you possibly say there is any sport in that or that its not equivalent or worse to canned hunting. Its legal so have at it, but you will be hard pressed to find real hunters call it anything other than herd management.
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Post by greghopper on Feb 23, 2015 20:15:34 GMT -5
Lol.... SMH
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Post by hunterman on Feb 23, 2015 20:16:48 GMT -5
Exactly GH.
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Post by Woody Williams on Feb 23, 2015 20:19:00 GMT -5
You are still not answering the questions ..
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Post by hunterman on Feb 23, 2015 20:20:56 GMT -5
What do you want to know woody. The only difference between your hunting place and a preserve is the preserve controls the hunting pressure, age structure, genetics and animal health.
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Post by Woody Williams on Feb 23, 2015 20:25:08 GMT -5
SN,
Not disputing what you saw on that particular occasion. That is anecdotal evidence at best.. I've seen too many instances of the other way around to say that deer stay on the park every time -as if a fence was holding them in.. That is what the discussion is about. No matter where one hunts if enough pressure is applied deer will move..unless they are fenced in.
BTW - no need to get smart azz about this discussion..
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Post by Woody Williams on Feb 23, 2015 20:26:51 GMT -5
What do you want to know woody. The only difference between your hunting place and a preserve is the preserve controls the hunting pressure, age structure, genetics and animal health. Go back and read the post on cross fencing, feed/bait stations, etc.. And respond to that. Tell us what your set up is...
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Post by hunterman on Feb 23, 2015 20:27:30 GMT -5
Deer will still leave the are in a fenced area also woody. I dont think you realize how big 120 acres is when you can only see or hunt a couple acres from a stand location. If they are not in range it dont matter if they go 200 yards or 200 miles.
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Post by hunterman on Feb 23, 2015 20:31:03 GMT -5
120 acres. No bait locations. No separate buck pens. No spotlighting. Just like you hunt but the neighbors cant shoot everything brown.
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Post by lawrencecountyhunter on Feb 23, 2015 20:34:23 GMT -5
Deer will still leave the are in a fenced area also woody. I dont think you realize how big 120 acres is when you can only see or hunt a couple acres from a stand location. If they are not in range it dont matter if they go 200 yards or 200 miles. 120 acres is extremely small for 60 deer 24/7, 365. Are the elk and exotics in there too?
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Post by hunterman on Feb 23, 2015 20:40:59 GMT -5
I see more deer than that in a single alfalfa field in the wild where I hunt. The deer density issue does not hold water. In southern Indiana you can go spotlighting and see 400 to 500 in a few hours. We do it all the time, every year. Some guys think the whole world is like the little box they live in, thats my whole point about this issue.
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Post by hunterman on Feb 23, 2015 20:46:45 GMT -5
FYI- From January to June we do supplement feed for animal health purposes. This is necessary for fawning, antler growth and so you dont have browse lines like you do in state parks and other places across the state.
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Post by firstwd on Feb 23, 2015 21:01:51 GMT -5
Depending on the habitat make up, 120 acres can be substantial or meaningless. I can watch nearly a mile in a couple of directions from one of my stands with the right glass. Just because someone drives around in late season with a light and sees high numbers of deer does not mean the surrounding habitat is swarming with deer. If late season feed yarding doesn't translate to just that for you, then nothing you try to say will carry much weight.
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Post by hunterman on Feb 23, 2015 21:07:59 GMT -5
I watch those numbers all summer and fall. I know in norhern counties they have herding up in winter but its a different world down here. You can not shoot over 100 yards from any stand location I have. The terrain and cover simply doesnt allow for it. Most shots are in shooting lanes 50 yards or less.
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Post by lawrencecountyhunter on Feb 23, 2015 21:33:29 GMT -5
I see more deer than that in a single alfalfa field in the wild where I hunt. The deer density issue does not hold water. In southern Indiana you can go spotlighting and see 400 to 500 in a few hours. We do it all the time, every year. Some guys think the whole world is like the little box they live in, thats my whole point about this issue. The only people you are going to convince with your arguments are the people that want to be convinced - the ones that want to try and legitimize shooting a captive animal as some real accomplishment. If you think you're going to come on to a hunting forum, frequented by seasoned hunters, and convince us that shooting preserves are just as sporting as fair chase.. you're barking up the wrong tree. You mentioned earlier that you believe 95% of hunters would line up to hunt high fence places if not for the cost. I'd say probably 95% of the people here spend just as much per year to hunt fair chase, taking into account lease/land purchase $$, habitat improvement, gear, fuel, time off work, etc. It's not all about having a big set of antlers to brag about for everybody. It's about family, tradition, food, personal reflection and fulfillment, the list goes on. The guys that measure their success in inches just don't get it.
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Post by hunterman on Feb 23, 2015 21:49:52 GMT -5
lch, I stated earlier I was not trying to change anyone's mind, just calling out biased and unfounded comments . The majority of Sportsmen have no issue with hunting preserves and all have their own beliefs for and against. I am very proud of having the opportunity to share and promote the hunting heritage to hundreds and hundreds of sportsmen and their families regardless of which side of the fence the guys hunt on. There are true sportsmen on both sides. Hunting is a dieing sport, the preserves are the fastest growing segment of hunting and is actually the one thing that is bringing and keeping sportsmen in the industry.
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Post by drs on Feb 24, 2015 5:25:57 GMT -5
FYI- From January to June we do supplement feed for animal health purposes. This is necessary for fawning, antler growth and so you don't have browse lines like you do in state parks and other places across the state. Supplement feeding of Deer is a bad idea!! What you are doing amounts to "stockpiling" Deer. This is an example of bad wildlife management, as an area can only hold so many Deer, and if you exceed this amount (carrying Capacity) then your herd's health and habitat will suffer. Maintaining natural habitat is the key to prudent management NOT providing supplement food for them. Sorry, your approach to maintaining a herd of Deer is laughable at best!!
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Post by drs on Feb 24, 2015 5:46:56 GMT -5
Some of you guys are stating "opinion" not facts which is fine. You are assuming your opinions of hunting preserves to be true when it fact they are not even close and that makes your argument fall short. The fact is anybody real hunter over 6 years old can kill a deer in the wild under 18 months old, day after day. I see this first hand and know it to be fact, no opinion or guessing. If you find any challenge or ethics beyond herd management in killing 18 month old deer you are in the same category as the canned hunters. This basically come down to jealousy, you guys line up for a chance to hunt the high fence government facilities because the fence is used to control the hunting pressure and deer are allowed to mature and get bigger. Again that is a fact. If the hunting preserves offered free hunts 95% of sportsmen would line up. If you are or already in this "Canned Hunt" venture or if you want to call "High Fenced" Hunting, to make is sound pretty; I predict you will go BANKRUPT. From reading all the posts, on this thread, most (if not all) are against canned or high fenced hunting. Thus they will not hunt your area filled with Deer that have been artificially raised and tame so a client can hunt and get an easy shot at such animal. This is NOT sport hunting!! Fair-chase hunting is the type that can earn the name or act of "Sport Hunting".
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