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Post by GS1 on Dec 9, 2014 22:16:10 GMT -5
I think it said it was notched before the warden approached him ..... Not seeing that part.... It actually says he had tagged the elk before the warden had approached him.
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Post by GS1 on Dec 9, 2014 22:51:15 GMT -5
had "no intent to evade or violate the law", came from a state where the rules are different and had tagged the elk before the warden approached.
It's right there with the reasons the county attorney gave for dismissing the charges of improperly tagging a game animal.
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Post by greghopper on Dec 9, 2014 23:21:22 GMT -5
Ok, thanks... This story does have some twist for sure!!! When the tag was notched and when the tag was affixed and rules in one state vs another!!
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Post by single_shooter on Dec 10, 2014 0:44:17 GMT -5
There are soooo many things I want to say here....but it all comes out mean...nasty...resentful and rude toward law enforcement officers. So I will keep quiet on this one.
But I would like to sum it all up in one statement...just a warning to those with little contact with law enforcement.
Whenever confronted by an officer of any sort who has the power to take away your freedom and/or your property...KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT!!!! NEVER tell him your side of the story...make him do his job...don't help him do it. NEVER answer questions without talking to an attorney. And NEVER believe what they tell you unless you have seen it with your own eyes before they got there to explain it to you!!!!
And most of all....NEVER trust them to be "just doing their job".
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Post by ridgerunner on Dec 10, 2014 5:37:08 GMT -5
Ok, thanks... This story does have some twist for sure!!! When the tag was notched and when the tag was affixed and rules in one state vs another!! True but you can talk with the guy for a couple minutes and see it was an honest mistake..he had his license, he notched the tag, he's a senior citizen who for the first time was hunting with his brother making memories, excited about the kill, probably not thinking clearly from the excitement ( been there!) of killing a nice animal and he had not moved the animal from where it dropped. So a man 70 some years old, enjoying the first hunt ever him and his brother has taken, tarnished by an over zealous Warden. I only takes a few minutes talking with someone to discern what their intention are...discretion.
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Post by chubwub on Dec 10, 2014 10:36:16 GMT -5
The way I see it since the charges were dropped and and the state attempted to return the head, that would indicate that the CO was wrong in this instance. Not sure how anything could have been successfully prosecuted since the tag was already notched and on the animal when the warden showed up as even a game warden cannot sit in a courtroom and say, "Well I watched him from 200 yards away and I saw the tag wasn't on there, but when I got closer the tag was affixed and properly notched." Even the most crooked judge is going to raise eyebrows at that. The only thing that can be confirmed without a reasonable doubt is that the tag was where it was supposed to be when the warden inspected the elk.
With the kind of logic the CO used, a drake mallard I shot could have looked like a bald eagle to him at 150 yrds, and even though upon further inspection all I have in my hand is a drake mallard, it looked like I shot a bald eagle to him through the binoculars, so he is going write a ticket and confiscate all my stuff because of what he saw from 150 yards away.
Montana sounds like a really crappy state to visit. Nothing like having an entire hunting trip ruined, a 2 year meat supply taken and your reputation tarnished on a TV show you didn't chose to be on all on a technicality which may or may not have happened. If I ever can afford an elk hunt, I will be sure to cross this state off the list. No way in heck I'm going to spend that kind of money on an elk hunt and risk losing it over something like that.
I could be wrong but I don't see any Indiana CO in my neck of the woods behaving like this Montana CO did and that is a positive thing. They seem to exercise officer discretion with a little bit more grace and tact around here.
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Post by single_shooter on Dec 10, 2014 11:58:23 GMT -5
You guys keep talking about what the officer did in his personal discretion and his choice on what to do. But you miss the big picture.
Think of it like the motorcycle helmet law...or the seatbelt law and worst of all the NFA of 1934 and the Firearms act of 1968. People hate these things and complain about them and there are political activist groups who spend their time and money battling these things.
But what they all miss is the big picture....the slow steady erosion of our personal freedoms as guaranteed us by the constitution and the bill of rights. We have the national Firearms act of 1934 passed based on a pack of lies as a "tax proposal" by the treasury department. It has failed miserably in that respect. So why do we still have it? Because any law that has been put into effect that limits or reduces our personal freedoms has NEVER been repealed or removed. In fact...there are only 2 presidents who have not enacted laws that reduced our personal freedoms...anyone know who they were?
Go read the book "UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES" It is a novel written by an acquaintance of mine here in St. Louis. It takes a startling look at the laws we have against us and a surreal look at their development and application upon us as a "free society"
After that...go read "NATION OF COWARDS" Both take a stark look at the reduction of our rights and the lies perpetrated by our government upon us and the control they have over us without our being aware of it.
Rant now complete...
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Post by majyang on Dec 10, 2014 11:59:43 GMT -5
Immediate is the instant of death.....and impossible for a hunter to identify and comply with. There is absolutely no way a hunter can identify the second an animal dies and either fill out a tag or place that tag on an animal. It is impossible. A no-value-added comment here but gonna say it aways. I can't remember ever seeing one of those "celebrity" hunters jump through hoops to tag a harvest on those hunting shows. There's probably more evidence of "failure to tag immediately" violations on those shows than this guy ever displayed. Don't suppose even with that kind of video evidence at hand, those "celebrities" are being tracked down and prosecuted too?
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Post by single_shooter on Dec 10, 2014 12:11:34 GMT -5
Sorry about the rant...but you need to think of the officer's actions as part of the bigger scheme of things and how governmental agencies put laws into effect that no matter what you do you are in some sort of violation and can be cited or even arrested...based solely upon the opinion of an ill-trained flunky with a badge and a gun and no idea of what the law truly states or intended.
Look at DUI checkpoints. BY LAW...you cannot be randomly stopped and questioned by law enforcement...period. But they do it..and we accept it. We accept a loss of freedom as a safety measure. They cannot detain you without probable cause to believe that you committed a crime...but we "allow" them to do it to us every day all over the country.
Think back to 1938. STOP!! Show me your papers...where are you coming from??...where are you going?? Oh...you are a Jew...let's continue this interrogation at the police station. Let's go ransack his home and his business and see what we find as well.
Ask yourselves....where will it end? We are on the same road as 1930's Germany. The Nazi party...much like our democrat party here... was the liberal progressive party there too....and they also fought for more restrictive firearms laws, more government agencies and a centralized government, free national health care and private businesses being nationalized by the government. Look what it got them. Businesses taken over by government and those left had great restrictive controls over how they operated.
The slow steady erosion of ALL PERSONAL FREEDOMS AND RIGHTS. It's no surprise to me what is occurring here and why the officer "got away" with what he did.
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Post by 10point on Dec 10, 2014 12:42:16 GMT -5
Um, I tag mine at the vehicle. Might need to rethink that.
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Post by swilk on Dec 10, 2014 14:14:48 GMT -5
Sorry about the rant...but you need to think of the officer's actions as part of the bigger scheme of things and how governmental agencies put laws into effect that no matter what you do you are in some sort of violation and can be cited or even arrested...based solely upon the opinion of an ill-trained flunky with a badge and a gun and no idea of what the law truly states or intended. Look at DUI checkpoints. BY LAW...you cannot be randomly stopped and questioned by law enforcement...period. But they do it..and we accept it. We accept a loss of freedom as a safety measure. They cannot detain you without probable cause to believe that you committed a crime...but we "allow" them to do it to us every day all over the country. Think back to 1938. STOP!! Show me your papers...where are you coming from??...where are you going?? Oh...you are a Jew...let's continue this interrogation at the police station. Let's go ransack his home and his business and see what we find as well. Ask yourselves....where will it end? We are on the same road as 1930's Germany. The Nazi party...much like our democrat party here... was the liberal progressive party there too....and they also fought for more restrictive firearms laws, more government agencies and a centralized government, free national health care and private businesses being nationalized by the government. Look what it got them. Businesses taken over by government and those left had great restrictive controls over how they operated. The slow steady erosion of ALL PERSONAL FREEDOMS AND RIGHTS. It's no surprise to me what is occurring here and why the officer "got away" with what he did. Yes ... but Im staying in the shallow end of this conversation pool ....
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Post by swilk on Dec 10, 2014 14:15:36 GMT -5
Um, I tag mine at the vehicle. Might need to rethink that. To be honest so do I .... I really need to change that habit though.
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Post by greghopper on Dec 10, 2014 14:25:37 GMT -5
In Indiana that's legal as long as the tag is filled out after the kill..... Load it and attache Tempory tag!!
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Post by swilk on Dec 10, 2014 14:35:43 GMT -5
I wonder how what I did this year jives with the law .... I never filled out a tag. I simply whipped out the 'ol smartphone and checked him in right there from the woods.
Before moving him.
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Post by greghopper on Dec 10, 2014 14:40:32 GMT -5
I wonder how what I did this year jives with the law .... I never filled out a tag. I simply whipped out the 'ol smartphone and checked him in right there from the woods. Before moving him. So you never at any point attached at tag???
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Post by swilk on Dec 10, 2014 14:42:13 GMT -5
Nope. Wrote down the confirmation number from the check in process but never attached anything to the deer.
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Post by greghopper on Dec 10, 2014 14:48:55 GMT -5
You may want to review the regulations for taging Deer!!
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Post by swilk on Dec 10, 2014 14:53:19 GMT -5
I need to just start carrying temporary tags with me .... instead of living on the edge like a common criminal.
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Post by chubwub on Dec 10, 2014 15:03:04 GMT -5
I need to just start carrying temporary tags with me .... instead of living on the edge like a common criminal. I guess you and I are just a bunch of uncivilized savages who are a disgrace to deer hunters everywhere.
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Post by majyang on Dec 10, 2014 15:04:08 GMT -5
You may want to review the regulations for taging Deer!! I dunno, this may need CO clarification. I distinctly recall a conversation somewhere where the statement was made that once you've checked it in. You could even quarter it out of the woods if you cared to.
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