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Post by HighCotton on Jul 25, 2013 21:32:26 GMT -5
Seriously! I got pulled over near Peru on April 4th and was cited with a failure to yield to an emergency vehicle, Ind Code 9-21-8-35 (b)(1).
I called my buddy Whitetail1 (he runs his own insurance agency) and found out this is one major serious infraction. It's 8 points and there is no Diversion program (at least not in Miami county) and there is a strong probability my insurance rates would go up if found guilty. So, I basically had no choice but to head into court and fight the ticket. I decided NOT to lawyer up and just present my case with photos, driving record (1 speeding ticket in my life, Basin Wyoming doing 41 in a 30 on June 16, 1980, and over a million and a half miles in everything from semis to motorcycles), and other documentation.
With continuances, we final had the court hearing this week and to be short, it turned out to be a wild afternoon with the court deciding in my favor. Basically, thanking the Lord, I won!
However, I am sharing this with as many people as I can. When you see an emergency veicle, or a cop car, or a state maintenance vehicle, or a tow truck, or one of those Hoosier Helper vans...Slow Down and Move Over if at all safely possible. This last few months has been stressful enough for me without this crazy ordeal. But I guess I learned a good lesson. Just passing along the information here!
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Post by dbd870 on Jul 26, 2013 4:27:32 GMT -5
That is pretty stiff!
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Post by tenring on Jul 26, 2013 5:05:49 GMT -5
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Post by johnc911 on Jul 26, 2013 5:51:31 GMT -5
So what was the reason you got out of the infraction ?
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Post by HighCotton on Jul 26, 2013 6:18:12 GMT -5
So what was the reason you got out of the infraction ? Good question. Simply, I was not guilty. I'm not saying that I'm the greatest driver out there. However, when I backed up my photos and driving record with the fact that the cop who pulled me over was actually the "unsafe" party for where he was stationed (just over a rise where I could not see him until I was within a few hundred yards) the favor went my way. And I backed that up with other facts like being a Patriot Guard rider, motorcycle safety instructor, and various industrial OSHA certifications (yes, I showed my cards). I'm all about safety and honoring and respecting those that protect us. I know I'm not perfect but I tend to be a pretty safe driver. And I may get ripped for this one but let's be real, the state is out to get revenue anyway they can. Some of my best riding buddies are on the force (state police and IMPD). They are actually the ones who gave me additional advice on how to handle the court situation. The reality: Officers are still people like all of us. Some are great and ... some not so great (with attitude to boot). For example, I have another close friend who is a Johnson Co deputy. He always demonstrates a "better than you" attitude whenever we get into discussions about the law. And frankly, he is one of the worst "speeders" I know. He's gotten out of numerous "tickets" by "showing his identity." So, usually, he and I just don't go down that path in our conversations because it really sets me off. Here's what one of my IMPD riding buddies recommended: First, get all the photographic proof I could muster. Second, bring a copy of my driving record. Third, and MOST IMPORTANT in this case, look at the code. It says "to move over/slow down IF POSSIBLE WITH DUE REGARD TO SAFETY AND TRAFFIC CONDITIONS." |
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Post by featherduster on Jul 26, 2013 7:06:52 GMT -5
Of the 46 Indiana State Police officers that have been killed in the line of duty 9 of those were killed by motorists striking them and/or their patrol cars, that's approx. 1/5 of the total deaths of State Police officers.
I lost a very close trooper friend and a tollroad maintenance employee that were both struck by motorists while they were preforming their duties along the Indiana Tollroad.
In addition I cannot even mention how many other police officers,maintenance workers as well as wrecker drivers and EMT'S that have been struck and killed or seriously injured by motorists.
When you have a vehicle stopped and you suspect that the occupants may have been involved in some type of criminal activity your mind is focused on the traffic stop and you would hope that the motorists would extend you the courtesy of moving over and slowing way down so you don't have to worry about your back.
Imagine being lets say a plumber trying to do a very important job while working only inches away from semis going 70+ mph.
I cannot tell you how many times I had to jump on the hood of my patrol car or the hood of a motorist I had stopped because someone was not paying attention or just wanted to see how close they could come to striking me.
I am glad you didn't have to pay a fine and possibly get 8 points on your drivers license however the message here should be SLOW DOWN AND MOVE OVER FOR EVERY VEHICLE THAT IS PULLED OVER ALONG A ROADWAY NOT JUST THOSE MENTIONED IN THE LAW.
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Post by HighCotton on Jul 26, 2013 7:28:33 GMT -5
Of the 46 Indiana State Police officers that have been killed in the line of duty 9 of those were killed by motorists striking them and/or their patrol cars, that's approx. 1/5 of the total deaths of State Police officers. I lost a very close trooper friend and a tollroad maintenance employee that were both struck by motorists while they were preforming their duties along the Indiana Tollroad. When you have a vehicle stopped and you suspect that the occupants may have been involved in some type of criminal activity your mind is focused on the traffic stop and you would hope that the motorists would extend you the courtesy of moving over and slowing way down so you don't have to worry about your back. I cannot tell you how many times I had to jump on the hood of my patrol car or the hood of a motorist I had stopped because someone was not paying attention or just wanted to see how close they could come to striking me. I am glad you didn't have to pay a fine and possibly get 8 points on your drivers license however the message here should be SLOW DOWN AND MOVE OVER FOR EVERY VEHICLE THAT IS PULLED OVER ALONG A ROADWAY NOT JUST THOSE MENTIONED IN THE LAW. Well said featherduster! I still believe (and we learn this from day 1 of rookie orientation in motorcycle racing) that many of these accidents are caused by "target fixation." Basically, there's a good chance you'll end up impacting whatever you're focusing or "fixing" on! |
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Post by swilk on Jul 26, 2013 7:41:50 GMT -5
Within the last 7 days I have seen a Sheriffs Deputy with his car blocking a country road within 100 feet of a blind corner while a semi was towed out of the road and a ISP Trooper with a car pulled over on HWY41 with the front third of his car in the southbound lane of traffic forcing a bottleneck of less than 2 lanes.
Stupidity is a two way street ..... accidents are always tragic but most could have been prevented by one involved party or the other.
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Post by featherduster on Jul 26, 2013 9:08:47 GMT -5
Cotton I agree with you and have seen for myself that drivers tend to steer toward the object they are looking at and sometimes that's the flashing lights of a emergency vehicle.
Swilk: Police officers are being trained to position the front of their vehicles with the left front fender area sticking out in order to better protect them from motorists who don't move over and/or in case they are shot at they have an area of metal to shield them.
Just slow down,move over or come to a stop it won't kill ya.
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Post by swilk on Jul 26, 2013 9:25:59 GMT -5
You are right .... slowing down, stopping or moving over wont kill me but creating a bottle neck might be a contributing factor to one of them getting killed.
There are, without a doubt, situations that will happen where "getting over" is impossible. Put two semis side by side at the time they pass that stopped police car and less than 2 lanes of road for them to go through and guess who loses? The police car and anyone near it.
Are Sheriffs Deputies trained to position their cars inside a blind corner with no warning for oncoming motorists? Or are LEO's people too .... and being people do they make mistakes?
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Post by featherduster on Jul 26, 2013 9:55:28 GMT -5
Sure all LEO are people too just like you and me and they all make mistakes like normal people do. As far as the deputy being positioned the way he was I can't answer that question.
Swilk you are correct in saying that there are times when moving over might not be an option and in this conversation nobody is casting blame we are just reminding ourselves that we all need to be aware of those vehicles that are along the shoulder as we are driving.
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Post by swilk on Jul 26, 2013 9:59:09 GMT -5
My only point was that everyone needs to use a little more common sense and be more aware of what is going on around them and how their actions can have an impact on "X, Y or Z"
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Post by firstwd on Jul 26, 2013 10:11:19 GMT -5
It might not be quite so obvious to everybody, but where a traffic stop occurs is not always dictated by the officer. While most officers try to initiate a stop to be as safe as possible for everyone, the person being stopped doesn't always cooperate.
Honestly, if all drivers gave themselves more travel time, paid more attention to their surroundings, and indulged in less distractions everyone would have safer travels.
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Post by Russ Koon on Jul 26, 2013 10:40:40 GMT -5
I agree, of course, that we should pullover and slow down whenever possible to give comfortable clearance to the stopped vehicles.
However, I have also encountered those occasions similar to the ones mentioned by swilk in which the positioning of the stopped vehicles definitely invites the emergency.
I noticed an increase in those positionings that seemed to correspond to the implementation of the stepped up enforcement and higher penalties for the regulation a few years ago. Might have to do with the training iinvolved in that positioning mentioned above. Seems to me that the former method employed was to try to ensure that both the stopped vehicle and the patrol car were a safer distance off the trafficked road surface, even if it meant driving a little ways to achieve that.
I know I remarked to the wife several times in our travels since then that the newer policy seemed likely to get someone killed.
Regulations and laws with the best of intentions are sometimes, and not all that rarely, found to have resulted in the opposite result of their intent. Can't help but wonder if this is one of them.
Best of luck to all LEO's out there doing their jobs, but I hope if you have the option, you'll practice the old method of getting out of the road....the newer "in your face" prcatice doesn't appear to be working as intended.
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Post by jdaily on Jul 28, 2013 9:09:47 GMT -5
You should move over for EVERY vehicle(PERIOD). 2 years ago, my family and I were returning from a trip in PA and got a flat tire about 20 miles outside of Cincinnati. Fortunately, it was the right rear tire. I had just put the tire on the truck and was starting to put the 1st lug nut on, when we heard the rumble of the tires on the road behind us. I look up to see a car half way into the emergency lane, doing at least 70. My son and I jump back and I started screaming and waving my arms. I don't know how this woman didn't hit the back of our Suburban. There were four of my other kids and wife still buckled up in the truck. Had I been changing the left rear tire, I feel, I or my son would be here today. I have and always will move over, when I see a car on the side of the road. I even move over, if it already has the orange sticker already applied to the rear window. Is it worth taking the life from someone?
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Post by Woody Williams on Jul 28, 2013 13:41:15 GMT -5
You should move over for EVERY vehicle(PERIOD). 2 years ago, my family and I were returning from a trip in PA and got a flat tire about 20 miles outside of Cincinnati. Fortunately, it was the right rear tire. I had just put the tire on the truck and was starting to put the 1st lug nut on, when we heard the rumble of the tires on the road behind us. I look up to see a car half way into the emergency lane, doing at least 70. My son and I jump back and I started screaming and waving my arms. I don't know how this woman didn't hit the back of our Suburban. There were four of my other kids and wife still buckled up in the truck. Had I been changing the left rear tire, I feel, I or my son would be here today. I have and always will move over, when I see a car on the side of the road. I even move over, if it already has the orange sticker already applied to the rear window. Is it worth taking the life from someone? good practice. I always do the move over bit for any vehicle on the side of the road..... |
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Post by Russ Koon on Jul 29, 2013 8:21:06 GMT -5
Yep, good practice. Of course at this time of year especially, that has to be done with care on two-lane roads if there are any oncoming groups of bikers. Never have understood the tendency for bikers to run with the column closest to the centerline using every inch of that cushion.
Seems they would be among the most sensitive to the possibilities that the slightest brush with an oncoming vehicle would bring. I know I was when I was up on two wheels. Couldn't catch me within a foot of that line.
I understand the desire to stay off the dark line down the center of the lane, as that is composed of oil and the various trash that has been swept there by the passing vehicle tires, but there's lots of room between that dark streak and the road centerline. It wouldn't take much of a swerve by a full-size car or truck yielding that extra clearance to a stopped vehicle to put them barely across that centerline with their eyes on the danger they are avoiding.
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Post by johnc911 on Jul 29, 2013 9:53:43 GMT -5
Well congrats on getting out of it  |
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