|
Post by spindoc99 on Feb 8, 2013 16:01:17 GMT -5
So my father passed away 8 months ago and he had a business that has been in the family since 1930. We were cleaning out the basement of the business and found an old Kickerbocker 16 guage double barrell shotgun that had been sawed off, both barrells and stock. Dang thing looks like a bad ass pistol from the western times.
Anyway, all the items in the basement were left to me as part of just general personal property, no paperwork on the gun, its never been registered to anyone before, I think you could buy these things in hardware stores back then.
But my question is, since its a sawed off shotgun, and those are illegal, but I didn't saw it off, and its basically an antique, that does fire....what do I do?
If I get caught shooting it somewhere (no, not for hunting) for fun, and a cop sees me could I get it taken away?
Its locked up in a safe place right now, but I'm not really sure what I can do with it, if its illegal. Even though it was obviously cut down to illegal size about 70 years ago.
|
|
|
Post by featherduster on Feb 8, 2013 16:38:24 GMT -5
Destroy it or if your local police dept. is having a turn in your guns for a reward day, trade it. If you remove and destroy the barrels then you can keep the rest if your wanting to restore it.
|
|
|
Post by spindoc99 on Feb 8, 2013 17:09:14 GMT -5
dang, that sucks.
|
|
|
Post by Woody Williams on Feb 8, 2013 17:32:06 GMT -5
Destroy it or if your local police dept. is having a turn in your guns for a reward day, trade it. If you remove and destroy the barrels then you can keep the rest if your wanting to restore it. Agreed... IF you can find the replacement barrel and stock you would still have a $150 gun at most. Parts will cost you more than that.. Personally I'd deep six it and soon..
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2013 18:46:02 GMT -5
Sawed off......how short?
|
|
|
Post by tenring on Feb 8, 2013 20:09:17 GMT -5
What is the total overall length of the shotgun?
|
|
|
Post by featherduster on Feb 8, 2013 22:55:43 GMT -5
It's the length of the barrels that you need to be concerned about. Barrel length is federally regulated by the BATFE and the minimum length is 18 inches.
|
|
|
Post by ms660 on Feb 8, 2013 22:57:57 GMT -5
I may be wrong but ain't it at least 18.5" to be legal???
|
|
|
Post by fullrut on Feb 8, 2013 23:00:02 GMT -5
It's the length of the barrels that you need to be concerned about. Partially! 18" barrel minimum, 26" overall length minimum. Anything else is a felony if caught with it.
|
|
|
Post by joen on Feb 9, 2013 7:30:11 GMT -5
that thing can get you a trip to the big house if found in your possesion.
|
|
|
Post by 5kirks on Feb 9, 2013 21:52:32 GMT -5
Good info, I was switching barrels from slug barrels to shot barrels on our 870s (2) I noticed a bulge in one of the regular barrels, not sure what happened to it or when it happened, but I thought if the barrel isn't safe I would just cut it off & maybe use it for something? Probably not a good idea
|
|
|
Post by esshup on Feb 10, 2013 11:56:46 GMT -5
You might want to call John Strang, 574-250-9509 at www.tacticalcomponent.com/ and see what he has to say. *IF* it's legal to own with the correct paperwork, maybe he can help you with it. If it was mine, I'd want to do all I could do to legally keep the family heirloom. John has a Class 2 license. From Wikipedia. "Under the National Firearms Act (NFA), it is illegal for a private citizen to possess a sawed-off modern smokeless powder shotgun (a shotgun with a barrel length shorter than 18 inches (46 cm) or an overall length shorter than 26 inches (66 cm)), without a tax-paid registration from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, requiring a background check and either a $200 or $5 tax for every transfer, depending upon the specific manufacturing circumstances of the particular sawed-off modern shotgun being transferred. Short-barreled muzzleloading blackpowder shotguns, in contrast, are not illegal by federal law and require no tax-stamped permit, although they may be illegal under state law. As with all NFA regulated firearms, a new tax stamp must be purchased before every transfer. Inter-state transfers must be facilitated through a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) while intrastate transfers may be between two persons.[8] In the US, shotguns originally manufactured without shoulder stocks (and thus is not legally a shotgun), with a total length under 26 inches, are classified as an "Any Other Weapon" by the BATFE and have a $5 transfer tax, if they are manufactured by a maker possessing the appropriate Class 2 Special Occupational Taxpayer Federal Firearms License. However, in order to convert an existing shoulder-stocked shotgun to a short-barreled shotgun or an existing pistol-grip-only shotgun to an "Any Other Weapon", a private citizen must pay the standard $200 NFA tax.[1]"
|
|
|
Post by shinglemonkey on Feb 11, 2013 11:57:34 GMT -5
The only way it is legal to own in Indiana is if it is on a form 4 with the atf and its classified as an AOW (any other weapon). What would make it an AOW is if it never had a shoulder stock on the receiver and was registered with the atf. SBS (short barrel shotguns) are only allowed to be owned in Indiana by government agencys and class 3 dealers. If you think it might possible be registered as an AOW with the atf and you have a lawyer friend they can call the atf and see if it is on the registry. You can call too but if its not then you might be questioned why you have an illegal SBS. If it was mine and I was unsure, I would take the barrel off of it and keep the parts at two different locations until you knew for sure if it has the correct legal paper work. I have one of these.
|
|
|
Post by single_shooter on Feb 21, 2013 14:15:10 GMT -5
I own a 12 gauge with a 9.5 inch barrel. An 870 3-shot pump to be exact...and no, I am NOT a dealer. Anyone who can legally own a firearm in Indiana can own one as well. You just have to fill out the paperwork and wait for it to get back to you before you take possession.
The question here is not whether or not it is legal to own...the question is whether it was originally manufactured as a long gun...or in it's present condition. If it is certainly easily identified as a cut-down job someone did after it was purchased...I would not risk my freedom for a cheap gun...or any gun for that matter. Take it in and give it to the police if you do not wish to try to find a set of barrels for it. Or ditch the barrels and sell off the action. There were a couple of companies that produced double-barrel pistol shotguns way back when...and you may have one. I am not familiar with the companies so can't tell you who to talk to to find out.
At this point you have two options.
OPTION #1 - Take it to local ATF or LEO and have them run a check on it to see if it was originally manufactured as a smoothbore handgun. If so...get the appropriate paperwork (costs $5 for an AOW) and reclaim your weapon when the paperwork arrives back to you. This will have to be done thru a class 3 dealer. OPTION #2 - Call the ATF or your LEO and have them come get it or drop it off to them. Explain that it was in a box in the basement - and have them destroy it. If it was me...I would check it out. No reason to give away something of value. If it is one that was originally a pistol from the maker...it may be worth more than you think.
|
|
|
Post by daneowner on Feb 21, 2013 21:15:35 GMT -5
Question, If spindoc99 welded a plug in the barrel to disable it, then would it be legal to keep?
|
|
|
Post by single_shooter on Feb 28, 2013 0:32:38 GMT -5
if it was PERMANENTLY disabled and unable to fire it is like owning a starter pistol or a prop gun...incapable of firing live ammo It could still fire blanks...but not live ammo so it would no longer for the legal description of a firearm there are a number of ways to make this occur
|
|
|
Post by stevein on Feb 28, 2013 10:23:08 GMT -5
try www.gunpartscorp.com/ they have a lot of old stuff. Does it have Damascus or twist steel barrels? If so according to esshup;s post from wiki. it may be legal. i would separate the barrels from the action until you find out for sure. shinglemonkey that thing makes my wrists throb just looking at it ouch!
|
|
|
Post by shinglemonkey on Mar 7, 2013 1:10:03 GMT -5
OPTION #1 - Take it to local ATF or LEO and have them run a check on it to see if it was originally manufactured as a smoothbore handgun. If so...get the appropriate paperwork (costs $5 for an AOW) and reclaim your weapon when the paperwork arrives back to you. This will have to be done thru a class 3 dealer. OPTION #2 - Call the ATF or your LEO and have them come get it or drop it off to them. Explain that it was in a box in the basement - and have them destroy it. If it was me...I would check it out. No reason to give away something of value. If it is one that was originally a pistol from the maker...it may be worth more than you think. No and No....either one of those examples can get you in federal trouble. If you want to know have a lawyer call the ATF and have them see if it is in the register. If its not then the lawyer does not have to tell them who has it.
|
|
|
Post by lugnutz on Mar 7, 2013 18:48:49 GMT -5
Just curious, why are sawed off shotguns (under 18 inches) made illegal?
In this situation, couldn't he just take the barrels off. Take the action in to have the firing pin(s) removed. And it be completely legal? Would look cool hanging above a fireplace..
|
|
|
Post by single_shooter on Mar 13, 2013 15:24:34 GMT -5
dang shingle monkey...paranoia getting to you??? LOL
If it was me....I would just remove the barrels...now it is no longer a sawed off anything...it is just an unbarreled action...problem solved
The barrels may be somewhere...may not even be at my home or may be in a box of miscellaneous car parts in my garage....but I would definitely ask the ATF to run the serial number if I wished to keep it.
As long as the under-length barrels are not attached to the action it is NOT illegal to possess. If it comes up as non-listed and if you wish to keep it just trash the short barrels and get another set of barrels if you can find them.
I have been dealing with NFA weapons for a few years and do not understand all the wild paranoia and speculation people have about them. If I have any questions I just call an ATF agent I have dealt with and he answers any questions I have. If there is an issue he tells me how to solve it. No issues....no legal problems...just the correct information I need so I stay legal.
I dread the day he retires though...some of the young pups taking the older guys' place don't know ANYTHING about firearms except for what they have been taught by the agency.
|
|