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Post by rwtaxidermy on Dec 10, 2012 6:54:40 GMT -5
This is definately the worst deer season I have had in 20yrs...it was almost like hunting the 90's all over again. I am sure EHD and drought conditions played a major role in this years non-sightings and the fact that the bonus antlerless remains at 8 adds to the devistation of the herd in my area.
I know many will have their opinion on this issue, I personally feel the county bag limists are an overkill and the counties that need management are most likely those counties with "HIGH LEASE RATES", where management cannot be carried out.
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Post by nimrodder on Dec 10, 2012 6:59:57 GMT -5
At least you hunted this year  . I never had the oppurtunity oh well there's always next year. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2012 7:54:09 GMT -5
This is another goofy post about leasing causing a hunter to have a lousey season. How many hunters do you know that killed 8 deer? How could they if there are no deer? Poor success of one hunter is not what deer management can be based on. Maybe you poor success was a product of the trickle rut this year or maybe one of the million other reasons out there? Meanwhile, I'll wait for the harvest numbers to come in. The kill in the region is up some maybe Ind. will be too.
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Post by Boilermaker on Dec 10, 2012 8:02:21 GMT -5
Maybe the limit of 8 for the last "x" number of years has finally caught up with his area? Ya know Timex just because someone doesn't see as many deer this year and say it's the worst for them doesn't mean they are "poor" hunters or "undedicated" by putting less time in the stand than you or someone else. I hunted probably 5 times as much this year as I did last year and saw about 1/3 the number of deer as I have in the past. Is it so far fetched that maybe leasing in his area had something to do with it?
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Post by swilk on Dec 10, 2012 8:03:05 GMT -5
Curious why you would say that an area with a high lease rate cannot have have a successful doe management system??
Once money changes hands the hunters are no longer able to kill them?
I cant see any way that thought would make sense to a person.
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Post by bigballer on Dec 10, 2012 8:18:29 GMT -5
I think what he is saying is the counties with high lease rates are the counties with more deer thus the limit of 8. And I think he is saying that other counties they are keeping at 8 because of those counties. Like they aren't checking all the counites around to see what the herd is like in those. Just going off of some of the areas closer to Indy or something. I don't think he means less deer in the lease counties. Just the oposite.. It has been a slow year for some. I've seen two deer in the last 6 weeks.
BB
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Post by swilk on Dec 10, 2012 8:20:21 GMT -5
I took it as he meant that the counties with a deer population problem were the counties that have a high lease rate and that lessors were unable to control the population.
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Post by maddog on Dec 10, 2012 8:22:49 GMT -5
I haven't said much on any forum, including this one about this year's deer season. I agree strongly with the OP, as far as disease, drought, and the shooting of too many deer, in SOME areas. I talked to processors, deer check in people, hunters and farmers. In my area the overall sightings and kill, is definately down. Yes, I shot two deer, but overall sightings, during legal hunting hours is definately off. For those of you who are wondering, I live in White Co. I've been hunting deer here, since 1979. Our county has some leasing, but as of yet, isn't like other couties throughout the state. We are at 8 bonus deer. I personally think it's too high, and should be more like four. I'm really not in favor of the late antlerless season, here at home. It will be interesting to see how many hunters go out, here at home, for that season. This hasn't been my worst season, personally, but it has been, for a lot of hunters, in my area.
maddog
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Post by rwtaxidermy on Dec 10, 2012 8:31:33 GMT -5
Curious why you would say that an area with a high lease rate cannot have have a successful doe management system?? Just from experience, i see in my area large tracts of land being leased...leased for what???..>>>To manage and raise big bucks!!!!..... if the doe herd is not managed in these high leased areas what happens???..>>>>..high auto and deer accidents. in return the state increases the bonus limit in these areas to try and lower the deer numbers...how does increasing bonus tags in high leased areas help control the population??..>>>..it does not. |
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Post by swilk on Dec 10, 2012 8:31:53 GMT -5
maddog - out of those processors, check in people, hunters and farmers you have talked to .... do you know anyone who has actually killed 8 antlerless deer this season?
I live in an "8" county and own property in another "8" county ..... I know exactly 1 guy who kills more than 8 deer a year and I am not sure he kills 8 in any one county.
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Post by swilk on Dec 10, 2012 8:35:06 GMT -5
Curious why you would say that an area with a high lease rate cannot have have a successful doe management system?? Just from experience, i see in my area large tracts of land being leased...leased for what???..>>>To manage and raise big bucks!!!!..... if the doe herd is not managed in these high leased areas what happens???..>>>>..high auto and deer accidents. in return the state increases the bonus limit in these areas to try and lower the deer numbers...how does increasing bonus tags in high leased areas help control the population??..>>>..it does not. Well, while we are speculating based on observations and opinion Ill throw mine out .... many times the guys who are willing to put out the cash for a lease fully understand that a proper doe management strategy must be in place in order for their buck plans to work. You dont get maximum bang for your buck (pun intended) without a complete deer management plan in place and that largely revolves around killing female deer. |
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Post by tynimiller on Dec 10, 2012 8:44:43 GMT -5
Worst season buck taggin wise for me in a lot of years...however I've hunted harder for a couple specific bucks all year so that's expected as I wouldn't lower my standards. I agree with OP this year is down some at least. I hunt two spots in Elkhart Co primarily and the one up by the MI line was terrible for deer sightings this year...now we're dealing with a couple dogs that chase deer daily so that plays a large factor but the area should hold tons of deer at least at night (4 trail cams operate the 70 acres) and we don't get as many pictures as we do out of one camera at our 10 acres. Our small homestead spot was and is teaming with does. Crazy to think in the same county how different how different it can be from one spot to another. Just a mile from our homestead property a buddy of mine saw maybe half dozen deer all of October....along a river bottom that always has great deer travel and he's not a rookie hunter either. Needless to say I like Timex can't wait to see harvest totals to truly see if it's as I suspect. I'm sure EHD, the drought and other factors have culminated into what I've seen around me. Some of you state the high bonus counties (elkhart is an 8) hurt the deer population...um around our homestead property it seems guys only shoot bucks (and they could care less spike or Booner)...that causes the opposite problem like we have this year WAY TOO MANY DOES! *As for if 8 is too high...I would agree 100%. I think it is insane to think someone out there truly "needs" 8 deer above and beyond their normal total...I mean unless you're taking care of 10 people that is a lot of meat!  I would like to see it change but I'm also getting sick of all the changes every year...if hunters hunted with sense it shouldn't matter what the bonus number is really. |
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Post by rwtaxidermy on Dec 10, 2012 8:46:14 GMT -5
Maybe the limit of 8 for the last "x" number of years has finally caught up with his area? Ya know Timex just because someone doesn't see as many deer this year and say it's the worst for them doesn't mean they are "poor" hunters or "undedicated" by putting less time in the stand than you or someone else. I hunted probably 5 times as much this year as I did last year and saw about 1/3 the number of deer as I have in the past. Is it so far fetched that maybe leasing in his area had something to do with it? Exactly.......I put in 60hrs plus per week in on stand from Oct 27th thru Nov 23rd this year. My count....seen the same small 5 pointer and forkie for 10 morning hunts....seen what i think is the same group of 5 does twice in those 27 days. I have been saying for the past couple years that the herd in my area has been almost depleated with these high bonus numbers....I am sure this will remain for next year even with the high number of EHD cases earlier this fall and the lower deer harvest.... Maybe my idea of management and the states idea of management are two different worlds....My idea of management is giving the deer a chance to mature and spread genetics before harvesting while atleast keeping the numbers in check.....the states idea IMO is, if it's brown its down". |
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Post by mkfrench on Dec 10, 2012 9:29:28 GMT -5
I too can't wait to see the harvest results, but am not looking forward to those who will call "foul" when those results aren't as some expected. Bottom line is deer hunting seems very cyclical to me. Ive only been hunting 22 years so i did not see the yearly population increases(booms) as some of the more tenured hunters. But I have seen the change from lottery draws for doe tags to almost kill at will limits. Good years and bad years, highs and lows. EHD and blue tongue are every year occurances that are magnified in drought years due to the nature of the diseases. Especially when the drought occurs from June thru September. I would like to know why some think the state wants ALL deer gone? Why arent all of Indianas 92 counties "8" deer counties if this is the case? I also find it odd that those saying deer numbers are too low, are still hunting? These people seem to want "others" to kill less deer...not themselves.
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Post by mrfixit on Dec 10, 2012 9:39:31 GMT -5
Aw now that's not entirely true, the states idea of management is more like if its a doe it's down. Don't want you to shoot any more than your allotted 1 buck. We gotta grow our bucks to "maturity" so they grow big antlers so the poor pitiful guys who only enjoy bowhunting have a chance.
It's all fun and games until we kill to many does. Unfortunately, gay bucks aren't as effective at producing offspring as does. ;D
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Post by tynimiller on Dec 10, 2012 10:04:05 GMT -5
Aw now that's not entirely true, the states idea of management is more like if its a doe it's down. Don't want you to shoot any more than your allotted 1 buck. We gotta grow our bucks to "maturity" so they grow big antlers so the poor pitiful guys who only enjoy bowhunting have a chance. It's all fun and games until we kill to many does. Unfortunately, gay bucks aren't as effective at producing offspring as does. ;D Paint with a broad brush by chance?! To think it's just bowhunters who tend to love hunting mature bucks is obsurd...I know many a gun hunter who is the same way. Like I stated before, it shouldn't matter what the harvest bonus totals are if hunters hunted with sense (not over killing does or decimating the buck population) it wouldn't be an issue either side of the fence. |
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Post by majyang on Dec 10, 2012 10:37:34 GMT -5
I hunt public land and felt that i had put in good pre season scouting efforts. Had a few spots that i was sure would produce (even though I failed to harvest during early bow) but from my observations, after opening weekend deer sightings have gone way down. I'm not just talking about actually seeing deers, but evidance of deer being around there as well i.e. fresh tracks and poop are almost down to nill in those areas where as before there was tons. Obviously, the deers have moved out of the areas i've scouted but dag gum one would think that if they're out of the areas that i've been in then they should be in areas where someone else is right? Deers don't hibernate... so i'm left scratching my head a little since many are also saying that they too aren't seeing the number of deers and signs of deers as in the past. I have been fortunate in that i've been able to get out a lot more this year than in the past but I have to agree with rwtaxi, it's been a tough season for me as well. BUT until sun down Jan 6th comes around, i'm sure i'll be out there again at least a couple more times. Really don't want to eat tag soup. Good luck to everyone still hopeful to harvest.
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Post by hornharvester on Dec 10, 2012 10:39:19 GMT -5
Each and everyone of you that hunt your property control what is killed and hence the number of doe. If you are not seeing doe then quit killing them. State doesnt make you pull the trigger. Dont buy a bundle tag if you dont want to kill 3 deer. A bundle tag was the states sneaky way to get you to kill more doe. You got 3 tags so most are not going to eat a tag and use it.
I saw this coming a few years back and quit killing the big mature doe on my property. If we do kill a doe its a young small doe because older doe will have twins and triples. This year I saw the deer i use to see in the mid 90's before the state started the over the counter bonus tags. Im seeing 10-20 different deer a day. Makes it fun to go hunting again. h.h.
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Post by rwtaxidermy on Dec 10, 2012 10:41:17 GMT -5
Aw now that's not entirely true, the states idea of management is more like if its a doe it's down. What doe i have seen this year are to say the least far from being mature doe....I am a meat hunter and usually take 3-4 deer per year...dont see it happening this year. I cant control what the 8 hunters kill on the surrounding property, what i do know is everything that moves through that property gets killed, why, because the bag limit per hunter is almost endless. Lets say 8 hunters...1 buck each if they follow the rules...8 bucks. Now a bonus of 8 doe per hunter...if all 8 hunters tag their limit thats 64 doe and 8 bucks= 72deer in a 350 acre parcel.....I am not saying they kill this many deer per season, but if by chance they all tagged out that leaves nothing for next year. |
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Post by tynimiller on Dec 10, 2012 11:01:24 GMT -5
Aw now that's not entirely true, the states idea of management is more like if its a doe it's down. What doe i have seen this year are to say the least far from being mature doe....I am a meat hunter and usually take 3-4 deer per year...dont see it happening this year. I cant control what the 8 hunters kill on the surrounding property, what i do know is everything that moves through that property gets killed, why, because the bag limit per hunter is almost endless. Lets say 8 hunters...1 buck each if they follow the rules...8 bucks. Now a bonus of 8 doe per hunter...if all 8 hunters tag their limit thats 64 doe and 8 bucks= 72deer in a 350 acre parcel.....I am not saying they kill this many deer per season, but if by chance they all tagged out that leaves nothing for next year. That's just not hunting sensible...it really isn't the state's fault it's the mindset and hunting habits of the hunters PERIOD. Give me a 72 bonus antlerss limit or a 1 and I'll adjust what I take every single year and usually wait to harvest does till at the earliest the second week of gun unless the doe number way way too much. |
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. I never had the oppurtunity oh well there's always next year.
I would like to see it change but I'm also getting sick of all the changes every year...if hunters hunted with sense it shouldn't matter what the bonus number is really.