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Post by steve46511 on Aug 14, 2012 17:16:54 GMT -5
My own personal, Indiana legal, wildcat round is " in the works". Based on a parent round I dont think Ive seen anyone else use is only ONE of the many things SO COOL about making a wildcat round! I can't recall having this much fun out of the woods..IN DECADES. Indiana set the stage and minimum bore size and maximum brass length are carved in stone (till they change em again. ;D ) so I have had a great time tossing ideas around and bothering the snot out of a very obliging gunsmith, to be mentioned later on, about this that and the other things I came up with. Later on, when all is said and done, Ill have load and all the other stats available, not as a promotion of any kind, but more for those curious and into that kind of thing. For the most part, most the info is listed a couple pages back on oldhoyt's "358 Hoosier Powder Suggestion" thread in this forum but one particular trait, completely specific to making your own "Wildcat" is what I'm here to share with you. Wow......HOW does one name such beasties? lol Lots of info on line on how old time rounds were named, all informative and fun reading, an additional "plus" to the process of "rolling your own" right down to making it all from a "parent round". Most the "newbie" rounds have some mention to our great state and the even greater whitetails we hunt and that is all good but......ever notice the ENERGY these new rounds put out? Being "limited" to whitetail.......or even to our state is ok, but I felt "mine" should be included in thoughts of OTHER big game and down the road, it is going to Montana too, so "Indiana Specific" names were dusted off my mental chalkboard. The "CXP2" designation for the "class game of generally light framed animals with relatively thin skin and light muscles and bones. These are primarily deer, antelope, sheep, goats and black bear". and I had about settled on that one and still like it immensely since not ONLY for "deer" but the "deer size class" instead but with such designation being owned via a patent by Olin Corp......I ditched that too. With a parent case/round being the original short mag", the 1965 originated 350 Remington magnum.....the final name I settled on that has an easy to remember "nickname". "The 350 JMR" or "Junior Magnum Round" has an easy nickname of the " 350 JR. " My thoughts of building such came about after the state changed the max length this year.....and it was also after a family catastrophy and my mind had to stay busy so it is a product of that time of "thinking about something else". Obviously I was unsuccessful at completely NOT thinking of it as you will see. For us here locally.......there will be one alternative nickname. A tribute, poor one that it is, to a fine person, great GREAT friend (ex wife or not) and superiffic mom. Jenny, mother of Steve Jr, partner on many hunts and fishing trips to MT, CO, FL, NM, WI was taken from us May 24, 2012 by Cancer and while this may seem a small thing to some, it is not to us. "The 350 Jenny" ( 350 JMR ......Jenny M. Reid) is going to be very nice, very sensible, not "high maintenance" at all, extremely efficient, and flexible to whatever I wish to do with such....a real "workhorse" to depend on without any second thoughts........ just like Jenny was to me and the family thoughout her life. You were taken from us WAY too early, Jen!!! I know you're laughing and shaking your head at me now in my craziness but THIS ONE IS FOR YOU! You and I WILL hunt together......a few times yet. Stats and such will be coming in a few weeks if anyone is interested in them. Not the fastest nor biggest, nor meant to be such......but way more than "adequate". God Bless Steve
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 17:28:41 GMT -5
I have absolutely NO experience nor really much interest in self loading, that said, I really enjoyed reading about your process and was touched by your tribute. Nicely said.
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Post by dadfsr on Aug 14, 2012 18:00:56 GMT -5
I'm like Metamora-I have no interest in handloading (but I know someone that does ) however your tribute to Jenny and naming the round after her shows just how much you care and miss her. Well done!!!!
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Post by Decatur on Aug 15, 2012 8:42:39 GMT -5
Excellent!
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Post by steve46511 on Aug 17, 2012 5:11:42 GMT -5
Short teaser (pun intended LOL). Gunsmith is working on the rifle and dies and loaded up a "teaser" round to show me. No stats yet but hes guessing still about the same as a 358 Win. Not a powerhouse to many but hardly a weenie since some pretty large animals have been taken with the same for decades. How fired brass measures up in capacity will be known before too much more time but only part of the story....at least for me and my uses. Shown next to the parent round, the "Big Daddy 350 Remington Mag".....is the 350 JR weve concocted. Regardless if one prefers the name of the 350 "Junior" or our pet name for here in the family....so far so good! God Bless Steve
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Post by cedarthicket on Aug 20, 2012 21:21:15 GMT -5
Congratulations Steve! Welcome to the wonderful world of wildcats! It can be quite challenging (sometimes even frustrating) as you try to work out all the "bugs." Then, to finally develop and prove loads that perform to your expectations in your own rifle is indeed quite satisfying.
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Post by steve46511 on Sept 1, 2012 22:09:36 GMT -5
For those curious (dang.....almost said "interested" LOL......) the 350 JR round is giving us the expected case capacity we originally had from my calculations. Formed but yet unfired brass, slightly longer (1.795") than the 35 WSSM but slightly smaller in diameter, and I think with a longer neck.........the cases formed today gave me a 58.7 grain capacity. Fired and neck sized only I could possibly pick up a few grains but, as mentioned, it has never been any where in the creation to be faster than the fastest. If I would have went towards THAT goal I'd have started with a .338 Lapua brass, a short Rem bolt from PT&G with a 338 boltface (.587), shortened and necked it up to .358 and rechambered my "other" 350 Rem Mag. A quick toss of calculations the end result would be right at 70-72 grains of capacity.......argghhhh!! So far all expections have fell right in line. Minimal gunsmith cost ($150 dollars) for the work done to my 350 Rem mag (I went another 75 dollars to have him remove the older caliber designation and reblue the barrel) and just shortening the set of 350 Rem Mag reloading and trim dies. The only real unexpected (because I didnt think of it) occurance was realizing that a Rock Chucker press with the added mechanical advantage they are said to have might be a handy gizmo rather than stressing out my JR press (and my arm!) resizing brass>!! Both rifles (mine and Jim's 673) are sitting barrels set back still waiting on the reamer that supposedly they "guaranteed" to arrive in the next two weeks max. Load results should fall in line with the expected "358 Win capabilies......plus a pinch more" with several powder choices. On a lark, I picked up some IMR 8028 XBR powder to work loads when things come together. Known for it's low ES and almost non existant temperature swings with "bench rest" uniformity I just have to give it a go. 220 grain Speer bullets should be able to be pushed 2550-2600 fps fairly readily and meets any trajectory/energy needs this ol coot will need out to ranges I wont shoot anyway. The single hitch so far has been the mentioned need for a bigger press to form literally any belted mag brass into the round but once I have 100 formed.....I should be done doing so for quite some time. Just info. God Bless Steve Oh yeah........I did "upgrade"on wood. Was going to sell this one but thought Id swap stocks first. Cant help myself. ;D
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Post by drs on Sept 2, 2012 5:03:22 GMT -5
Nice looking rifle, Steve!
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Post by esshup on Sept 2, 2012 7:07:23 GMT -5
Good looking gun Steve! If you ever decide to go the .338 Lapua route, I've got some brass here that cracked at the neck/shoulder junction after 1 full house firing (7mm Allen Magnum) that I can't use anymore. At the price of the brass, I can't bear to throw it out. Even after annealing, for some reason I'm running about 20% rejects after first full house firing (110g of WC-872)
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Post by steve46511 on Sept 3, 2012 0:01:25 GMT -5
Thanks guys. The orginal rifle I picked up really had a nice golden colored stock that is really pretty nice.
Almost all the 700 Classics are very straight grain and I'm more of a high figured gunstock lover than I should be.
I saw this one and had to have that stock!
This rifle and round is being put together for hunting through retirement and I got a good enough deal on the original to "somehow" justify swapping stocks on this one and then deciding what to do with the second one. Why I'd want two is a mystery even to me, but danged if it don't keep popping up in my head.
The 338 LM "idea" while doable, is just out of this ol fart's financial means and WAY more capable for shots longer than I could even dream up.
Plus it would beat me to DEATH.
For now, the scope I'm intending to use is an older Redfield Widefield 2-7X that just happened to be on the other 350 Mag when I bought it. I had one of those on a custom muzzleloader and really liked the sight picture. A little more X would be handy for working loads and testing accuracy (with me shooting anyway LOL) but I'm not now or ever intended for this to be a bench gun with itty bitty groups.
I AM getting a bit anxious to get it here and start loading test rounds and getting enough 1x fired and neck sized brass to get serious testing powders and bullets but as the weather cools a bit and the humidity drops it will be a bit more fun doing so.
Being normally a traditional bowhunter/black powder hunter for 95 percent of my adult hunting life.......this is going to be a bit different to say the least.
For awhile I'll probably feel like I'm doing something Im not supposed to after more than 4 decades of "NO RIFLES ALLOWED". I think I know ONE guy that has a bolt action 44 mag Ruger rifle that he hunts with some.
I'm going to be a freak hunting with a true rifle in these parts!
God Bless and thanks again, guys. Steve
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Post by esshup on Sept 3, 2012 10:43:37 GMT -5
Steve:
If you were to put a good brake on the rifle, the recoil would be minimal. The brake that I have on that 7mm makes the recoil feel like my lightweight .243 shooting 85g bullets at 3200 fps. Yes, ear protection is a must tho with the brake.
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Post by steve46511 on Oct 24, 2012 10:28:54 GMT -5
Short update for those interested. Rifles are done and in hand. Some surprises but comes out a wash. Fired brass has a slightly less case capacity than our "dummy round", reason being our dummy's dumb shoulder was not formed and we lost a bit with that but since this was never intended to be the fastest of the fastest, not a big deal. My 700 came with a few blessings. I had purchased it and fired it straight to the gunsmith. Once receiving it, I found that the action had been glassed and the trigger had already but custom worked. Can't complain about either of those but I have "canned" the idea of switching stocks to the more figured one above. IN HAND, the original stock is not anything like the 'blond" appearing one in the originally seen photos and I am pleased with it as is. The trigger is the best I've ever encountered on any rifle short of double set triggers. Zero creep or over travel, breaking at just under 2.5 lbs. Perfect. Powders purchsed were just a tad slower than one would pick for TOP end velocities but the difference of the approx 100 fps gain in switching amounts to SO little on trajectory out to 250 yards, I'm not going to worry about it for now. Capacity duplicates the 358 WSSM, just with less fuss IMO gotten by a simple set back and rechamber. The discontinued Nosler 225 grain Ballistic tip has a working range of "1600 fps min to 3000 fps max" and I felt this would be desirable for the velocities of this round. The same bullet as the 225 Accubond, but not bonded. BC of .421. COAL of the round is identical to the Parent round, the 350 Rem mag with the bottom of the bullet just at the bottom of the neck. 2.800 inches and what I had the rifle throated for. Fireforming is about unneeded but I did load some 180 grain Speer over med charges of a slower powder to just shoot and get familiar with the rifle. Ive not chronographed those, not intending to use them but they have a decent "punch" shooting them and found they group inside 1.5 inches at 100 yards without any "working" of the load involved. Shows the rilfe / round may have "promise" for my uses. As expected I am unable to "over load" the round with IMR 8208 XBR, even with magnum match primers. QL shows pressures well under the 63,000 psi estimate maximum and still getting right at 2500 fps with the Nosler 225 grain bullet. A gentleman working this wildcat with me via the internet has been a great help. He has multiple experiences with wildcats and 35 caliber rounds and has several ideas on powders to try later on and we may "push the envelope" on the round after season playing around but for now, the goal of an efficient yet inexpensive build giving me a "358 win" equivelent or close has been met. I feel no "need" to push the round to max and gain the most I can from it. At this point, the round has been all I've asked for. Some ups, some downs but overall....an efficient, cost preventive round to chamber a rifle for. My scope for hunting is at this time a 2-7x40 Redfield Widefield Lo-Pro of decades past. I used one on a custom black powder rifle previously and I found it to be an excellent, quick pointing scope yet it does lack the power I NEED to really shoot super groups. Ill "group" some rounds but am not expecting half inch groups LOL. We also have the 180 grain speer, 220 grain speer, 225 grain sierra along with the noslers. All of them loaded up have more than adequate trajectory and energy for Indiana whitetail. Its simply a matter of personal choices/ preferences at this point. Some prefer the faster loads with lighter bullets but my trajectory calculations show so little gain in trajectory at short ranges, I chose the heavier ones that will retain both trajectory and more energy on those longer shots, if taken. No surprise there since Ive been a heavy bullet advocate all my life. Anyway........just a short update. GodBless you and yours. Hunt safe this November! Steve
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2012 11:10:21 GMT -5
Nice looking rifle and interesting carttridge, Steve! Here in Ohio we can't use that type of weapon for hunting our Whitetails. I use a Browning A-Bolt 12 gauge slug gun which is bolt action and I mounted a Leupold 2-7 power shotgun scope on it. Kicks like a mule!!! I bought it when Browning arms first introduced them and I had a gunsmith port the barrel to reduce the recoil some. Beautiful shotgun/rifle with it's walnut stock but looks more like an Elephant rifle rather than a Deer rifle.
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Post by oldhoyt on Oct 24, 2012 13:06:31 GMT -5
Looks and sounds awesome, great project.
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Post by hankhunter on Oct 26, 2012 8:48:49 GMT -5
I'm glad that there is so much interest in cartridge development since 2007. I went the cheaper route. I didn't want to buy custom reamers, barrels, and dies or pay a gunsmith for a conversion. I just cut the case down to 1.625 or 1.8" and put the bullet back in. The 1.625 took some development because of the capacities and tapered cases. But was fun. The 1.8" are easy because you can trim the case and put the bullet back in and not change the point of impact with the full length case. The 350 you developed does make a nice looking cartridge. Good luck with it.
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Post by steve46511 on Oct 26, 2012 9:32:02 GMT -5
Thanks gang.
What you did hankhunter is truly the simpliest and it was considered but for me, I'd have to do a rechamber anyway because I was set on a model 700 Remington for mine to hunt thru retirement.
It's been kinda fun, some pitfalls and an overall learning experience.
Something to plan for me to do living alone with ol Dewey.
I heard a LONG LONG time ago something that has stuck with me.
"If you're not planning to DO something......all you are planning to do...is die"
It's been my motto for all these years.
God Bless, one and all, and best of luck out there. Steve
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Post by oldhoyt on Oct 26, 2012 10:19:41 GMT -5
I'm glad that there is so much interest in cartridge development since 2007. I went the cheaper route. I didn't want to buy custom reamers, barrels, and dies or pay a gunsmith for a conversion. I just cut the case down to 1.625 or 1.8" and put the bullet back in. The 1.625 took some development because of the capacities and tapered cases. But was fun. The 1.8" are easy because you can trim the case and put the bullet back in and not change the point of impact with the full length case. The 350 you developed does make a nice looking cartridge. Good luck with it. What cartridge(s) did you work with, if you don't mind my asking. Thanks.
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Post by hankhunter on Oct 26, 2012 14:00:03 GMT -5
40-60 marlin, 45-70 govt, & 450 Marlin in 1.625" Above plus 35 rem, and 358 win in 1.8"
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Post by steve46511 on Nov 1, 2012 10:43:14 GMT -5
350JR round, fired and neck sized, donut removed 47.8 Grains of IMR 8208 XBR (lightly compressed) Federal 215M primer Nosler 225 grain Ballistic Tip Crony F-1 (tested with 22 standard velocity) ZERO pressure signs on round or on bolt lift. 2574 2570 2573 2576 2572 Preliminary "leaner" groups at 100 yards with 7x scope 1.50 inches. I may or may not do better if I put on a high X scope and had a decent rest....but......I think "Im done" for load seach for 2012s deer season. GodBless Steve
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Post by oldhoyt on Nov 1, 2012 15:03:38 GMT -5
That will work.
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