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Post by drs on Aug 13, 2012 13:54:00 GMT -5
I honestly think the population is down, at least in areas in hunt. Im starting to wonder if warming has had a negative affect on breeding habits and reproduction rates, but who really knows why for sure. Quite possible. Also many fawns born this Spring died, due to the excessive heat & drought conditions.
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Post by tenring on Aug 13, 2012 14:53:00 GMT -5
Not enough, but then I don't have fields of alfalfa and soybeans feeding them.
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Post by daneowner on Aug 13, 2012 16:44:14 GMT -5
My concern is how many we'll have next year. The mast crop is very slim in my area due to the drought, if we have a hard, bad winter I'm afraid we could lose quite a few due to lack of food in some areas.
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Post by drs on Aug 14, 2012 4:52:32 GMT -5
My concern is how many we'll have next year. The mast crop is very slim in my area due to the drought, if we have a hard, bad winter I'm afraid we could lose quite a few due to lack of food in some areas. I think you're correct. If food (browse) is lacking in anyone area and there is a rough winter or a dry Winter ahead, with cold temps. this will take a further toll on the Deer Herd. The current drought has done its damage even if it is now raining in these dry areas, as it is becomming too late to re-grow the necessary browse needed.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 6:16:43 GMT -5
I'd venture to say that there has NEVER been 1 deer die of starvation in Indiana.....ever. And that it won't happen this year either. Also, Indiana does NOT have winter kill like you hear of in the high elevations of the west. Winters are not near severe enough to cause it to happen. If you don't beleive it, drop the biologists a line and ask. I COULD BE WRONG(?)
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Post by drs on Aug 14, 2012 6:46:50 GMT -5
I'd venture to say that there has NEVER been 1 deer die of starvation in Indiana.....ever. And that it won't happen this year either. This past Summer was way different than past Summers, with the excessive heat & lack of rainfall. Plant materals, Mast, and such, are lacking in many areas. Also, you're correct that very few Deer have died of starvation in Indiana, unless their population was above the carring capacity. Some 20 or more years ago there was more habitat available for Deer and other game, there were also more farms around. Today many of those areas are now Housing Subdivisions or Industrial Parks, along with new Highway construction, and changes in farming pratices. All this is a negative factor for Deer, and the lack of suitable habitat & food will show-up this Winter or in subsequent years.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2012 7:02:28 GMT -5
David, look at my post, it says that NO deer have died from starvation, not a "few". It just won't happen. If you look at road construction area, subdivided areas and so on, you'll see plenty of weeds. Deer love weeds. It may appear that deer are feeding on roadway right-a-ways on the fescue, which we know they aren't. So, they are eating the weeds that grow along with the fescue and red clover. Those areas will soon green up and be viable food for deer this winter. We also know that 60% of a deer's daily diet is browse. That includes tree bark if nothing else is available, which it is in most areas. Take crops, say a corn field went bust on a farmer and he took insurance to cover his loss. He can't feed what did produce to cattle and collect the insurance, so he bush hogs it and replants late beans or nothing. At any rate, the corn that grew half ears and small kernals then becomes deer food. More than in normal years when a good combine plucks 95% of it for sale.
I'm surprised that you would highlight "above the carrying capacity" and then post that Indiana only has 350,000 deer. Those two don't compute on any calculator.
Consult a biologist for more info, but your barking up the wrong tree if you think deer will be effected to the point of stravation. It simply isn't possible. Doom and gloom is not here yet.
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Post by drs on Aug 14, 2012 7:07:40 GMT -5
Tom, We'll have to agree to disagree.
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Post by tenring on Aug 14, 2012 7:14:24 GMT -5
As one who experienced the blizzards of '77 and '78, I just might be in a bit of disagreement on whether or not, any deer might have died of starvation in Indiana. The -60 wind chill, combined with uncommon amounts of snow fall, and snow drifts in many areas that were anywhere from 3-4 feet, to as high as 15 feet. That would put anyone in their mid 30's lacking onsite knowledge of historical factors. That time period was brutal!
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Post by dadfsr on Aug 14, 2012 7:18:42 GMT -5
David, look at my post, it says that NO deer have died from starvation, not a "few". It just won't happen. If you look at road construction area, subdivided areas and so on, you'll see plenty of weeds. Deer love weeds. It may appear that deer are feeding on roadway right-a-ways on the fescue, which we know they aren't. So, they are eating the weeds that grow along with the fescue and red clover. Those areas will soon green up and be viable food for deer this winter. We also know that 60% of a deer's daily diet is browse. That includes tree bark if nothing else is available, which it is in most areas. Take crops, say a corn field went bust on a farmer and he took insurance to cover his loss. He can't feed what did produce to cattle and collect the insurance, so he bush hogs it and replants late beans or nothing. At any rate, the corn that grew half ears and small kernals then becomes deer food. More than in normal years when a good combine plucks 95% of it for sale. I'm surprised that you would highlight "above the carrying capacity" and then post that Indiana only has 350,000 deer. Those two don't compute on any calculator. Consult a biologist for more info, but your barking up the wrong tree if you think deer will be effected to the point of stravation. It simply isn't possible. Doom and gloom is not here yet. ......(except for the spelling ;D)
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Post by swilk on Aug 14, 2012 7:53:51 GMT -5
I would say there has been a few die of starvation or winter kill over the years .... but very few.
I dont know that over populated areas would get to that point .... the deer can always move on. Areas like the state parks before they opened them up for hunting ..... even though there was a noticable browse line in the areas and it was obvious there were too many deer .... the deer always had the option of moving on to find food. This years drought might kill crop yield for farmers but it is not going to leave the deer hungry. there is still grass. Crops. Mast. Trees.
The 77 blizzard .... and maybe in the early 90's when we had frigid temperatures for more than 30 days with a snow pack on .... those conditions might line up to kill a few from starvation/exposure. Maybe.
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Post by daneowner on Aug 14, 2012 19:24:08 GMT -5
tenring, I also was around for the 77-78 winter. I know for a fact that alot of deer died that winter in my area, which I believe was due both to lack of browse & the rough winter. I also would say that there is a tremendously larger deer herd for mother nature to feed now, then what there was back in the early 70's. So, as I said before it is a concern of mine, not a "doom & gloom" statement.
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Post by parkerbow on Aug 14, 2012 19:34:15 GMT -5
Not enough in my areas.
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Post by drs on Aug 15, 2012 4:46:03 GMT -5
tenring, I also was around for the 78-79 winter. I know for a fact that alot of deer died that winter in my area, which I believe was due both to lack of browse & the rough winter. Actually, those "Rough" Winter years were 1977 & '78. The Winter of 1979 was a mild one in S.W. Indiana, as I worked outdoors, all Winter, cleaning up my woods in Northern Vanderburgh County. Back then ther were not as many Deer as were around in the late 1980 to late '90's, but those rough Winters sure took a toll on our Rabbit, Quail, & Squirrel populations.
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Post by daneowner on Aug 15, 2012 5:27:37 GMT -5
drs, Yes you are correct, it was 77-78, Thanks. Hope to never see another winter like that one. (I edited my other post to show the right years).
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Post by drs on Aug 15, 2012 5:50:31 GMT -5
drs, Yes you are correct, it was 77-78, Thanks. Hope to never see another winter like that one. (I edited my other post to show the right years). You're welcome. I too hope we NEVER see a Winter like those of '77-'78 again. The one snow event, we had in 2004, where Evansville received almost 3' of Snow around Christmas was weird as it was all gone by New Years Day 2005!!! ~STRANGE!! Down where I live now, here in Ky, folks said they once had 30" of snow one year, but this area normally receives about 8" to 10" per Winter.
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Post by Woody Williams on Aug 15, 2012 7:31:14 GMT -5
'77 and '78 storms were took horrendous toll on wildlife, but I doubt it killed very many,if any, deer.
There is absolutely no lack of browse in the woods right now, draught or no draught. Hopefully EHD will not kill too many deer, but there will be no deer starving in Indiana this year, or any other year.
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Post by mrbuckfly1 on Aug 15, 2012 8:05:09 GMT -5
I also remember the 77-78 winter and it was as described,very rough.It is during rough times like this that some deer will perish due to sickness,starvation or whatever.It is natures way of culling the very old,the sick and sometimes the very young.Don't see this happening in Indiana on a regular basis,but believe it can and will happen when conditions are right.
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Post by drs on Aug 15, 2012 8:10:47 GMT -5
'77 and '78 storms were took horrendous toll on wildlife, but I doubt it killed very many,if any, deer. There is absolutely no lack of browse in the woods right now, draught or no draught. Hopefully EHD will not kill too many deer, but there will be no deer starving in Indiana this year, or any other year. The winter of '77 & '78 took a HUGE toll on the Rabbit, Quail, and Squirrel population. Don't think it really affected the Deer herd though, as there wasn't that many around in the '70's. My Brother-in-law, who is a Veterinarian, and lives up North of Indianapolis, said his friends have told him they've seen fewer Deer this year, compared to just five years ago.
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Post by Russ Koon on Aug 15, 2012 8:37:37 GMT -5
Nobody seems to know for sure, but it's apparently too many for the state, as they continue to issue depredation permits even though there's little or nothing in the fields to be depredated this year.
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