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Busted!
Aug 24, 2011 10:11:27 GMT -5
Post by mrfixit on Aug 24, 2011 10:11:27 GMT -5
I really miss the "Ask a Conservation Officer" sub-forum we used to have And just to clarify, not to ask about this case but to ask if in fact it's still a requirement that the check station attendant to place the tag on the deer.
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Busted!
Aug 26, 2011 7:25:58 GMT -5
Post by tickman1961 on Aug 26, 2011 7:25:58 GMT -5
We are talking about killing animals here, not humans. The above infractions are equal to a speeding ticket as they should be. Serious deterrents would be monetary in nature not putting someone behind bars. The fines are less than the price of a non-resident deer license. They used to hang horse thieves. What does a car thief get? What the hell do horse or car thieves have to do with the illegal taking of game via not checking it in or processing meat without a license. Sounds like to me all of them had the license to kill, but like morons, did not follow the final steps to "certify' the kill. If you don't like the fines - contact your DNR and legislature. The mindset that these people need to go to jail or prison is asinine and reminds me of the war on drugs.
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Busted!
Aug 26, 2011 8:24:54 GMT -5
Post by firstwd on Aug 26, 2011 8:24:54 GMT -5
The fines are less than the price of a non-resident deer license. They used to hang horse thieves. What does a car thief get? What the hell do horse or car thieves have to do with the illegal taking of game via not checking it in or processing meat without a license. Sounds like to me all of them had the license to kill, but like morons, did not follow the final steps to "certify' the kill. If you don't like the fines - contact your DNR and legislature. The mindset that these people need to go to jail or prison is asinine and reminds me of the war on drugs. I didn't say they needed to go to jail. I said there needs to be stiff mandatory penalties. As for the rest, it appears that the only thing you would be concerned with is something that affects you or your personal stuff. The wildlife is owned by the State of Indiana, not the Indiana government, but the people there of. It does affect you and everybody else. The point I was trying to make, is if any law is only enforced or punishments handed out for violating that law based on how one person sees its effect on themselves, then we all lose. How would things be if judges looked at certain laws as it appears you do, and only sentenced criminals based on how they felt instead of on the letter of the law they broke? Wait a minute, they already do. Hence the reason I feel there should be mandatory punishments.
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Busted!
Aug 26, 2011 10:52:59 GMT -5
Post by tickman1961 on Aug 26, 2011 10:52:59 GMT -5
"How would things be if judges looked at certain laws as it appears you do, and only sentenced criminals based on how they felt instead of on the letter of the law they broke? Wait a minute, they already do. Hence the reason I feel there should be mandatory punishments. "
How they felt? It is up to the prosecutor to make the charges and the charges are based on evidence, get it. The judge bases his decison on the evidence and the rule of law. Don't let your anti poacher perspective get in the way of the law and the way judges have to approach sentencing.
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Busted!
Aug 28, 2011 13:05:28 GMT -5
Post by fletchcatch on Aug 28, 2011 13:05:28 GMT -5
He did say sentencing when talking about the judge
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Busted!
Aug 28, 2011 17:50:23 GMT -5
Post by inrecordbookbuck on Aug 28, 2011 17:50:23 GMT -5
Here is a section of indiana code that clarifies the check in station duties.... I belive this was changed about 10yrs ago.... the station i use, years ago switched to handing the tag to you to place on the deer.... before that they had stated it was a law they had to....
(p) After the checking station operator records the permanent seal number on the log and collects the piece of paper described in subsection (k), the operator shall give the seal to the individual. The individual must immediately affix the seal: (1) between a tendon and bone; (2) through a section of skin or flesh; or (3) around a branched antler; to prevent its removal (without cutting the seal or the body part to which it is affixed). The seal must be maintained until processing of the deer begins.
(q) The checking station operator must do the following: (1) Accurately and legibly complete all forms provided by the department. (2) Make those forms available to department personnel upon request.
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Busted!
Aug 28, 2011 21:39:20 GMT -5
Post by lugnutz on Aug 28, 2011 21:39:20 GMT -5
3 years of OUR money spent on salaries, for these MISDEAMNOR charges? What a waste of man hours and money. Once again, i'm ashamed of our DNR!
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Busted!
Aug 28, 2011 22:02:52 GMT -5
Post by gobblerstopper on Aug 28, 2011 22:02:52 GMT -5
It is always good to see our dollars spent on what will probably be convictions.
Hey lug, when you need the assistance of or make contact in the field with someone from our DNR be sure to let them know how you feel. After talking with hunters from all over the country I know how good of a job most of our guys do.
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Busted!
Aug 29, 2011 5:21:25 GMT -5
Post by mrfixit on Aug 29, 2011 5:21:25 GMT -5
Here is a section of indiana code that clarifies the check in station duties.... I belive this was changed about 10yrs ago.... the station i use, years ago switched to handing the tag to you to place on the deer.... before that they had stated it was a law they had to.... (p) After the checking station operator records the permanent seal number on the log and collects the piece of paper described in subsection (k), the operator shall give the seal to the individual. The individual must immediately affix the seal: (1) between a tendon and bone; (2) through a section of skin or flesh; or (3) around a branched antler; to prevent its removal (without cutting the seal or the body part to which it is affixed). The seal must be maintained until processing of the deer begins. (q) The checking station operator must do the following: (1) Accurately and legibly complete all forms provided by the department. (2) Make those forms available to department personnel upon request. Thanks!!! Upon reading this I'm not sure why the requirement to haul your deer to the check station. Seems pretty silly. It's only a place to do the paperwork and get a tag.
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Busted!
Aug 29, 2011 5:22:09 GMT -5
Post by mrfixit on Aug 29, 2011 5:22:09 GMT -5
3 years of OUR money spent on salaries, for these MISDEAMNOR charges? What a waste of man hours and money. Once again, i'm ashamed of our DNR! Oh well you was going to be paying the officers anyway ;D
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Busted!
Aug 29, 2011 7:19:14 GMT -5
Post by Woody Williams on Aug 29, 2011 7:19:14 GMT -5
3 years of OUR money spent on salaries, for these MISDEAMNOR charges? What a waste of man hours and money. Once again, i'm ashamed of our DNR! Lug, You have absolutely no idea how this operation went down, but in your ignorance you complain and throw rocks at our DNR. My best GUESS is that they were after them for much bigger crimes but either could not catch them at it or could not get enough evidence to convict. Either way they did the best they could and I thank them for it. You are starting to sound like a certain outdoor writer with your putting down of the DNR.
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Busted!
Aug 29, 2011 10:51:26 GMT -5
Post by lugnutz on Aug 29, 2011 10:51:26 GMT -5
Woody, you call me ignorant ( which is a personal jab not tolerated on this site unless its by Woody Williams) because I have no idea how this went down. Then you say you are GUESSING how it all went down.
I stated a fact and gave my opinion. If you don't like my opinion I'm sorry but its not gonna change. I'm not backing off because you are the owner of this site. If you can't handle my opinion of our DNR then I suppose you'll have to delete my account.
All this comming from a guy that daily bashes our Commander and Chief....Kinda like a terrorist.
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Busted!
Aug 29, 2011 11:32:56 GMT -5
Post by fowlhunter on Aug 29, 2011 11:32:56 GMT -5
Lug by reading Woody's post I don't believe he was saying you are an ignorant person in general. It appears as though he was stating you are ignorant pertaining to the facts of this case, which we all are including Woody since none of us were there.
Now about your original post you have no right to belitttle this investigation. Just because you think it was not worth "your" money. What do you think they are paid to do? IMO this is a good example of the DNR being proactive instead of sitting around and doing nothing. I would also challenge you to search the Indiana code IC 14 and 312 IAC and see how many felony violations you can find.
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Busted!
Aug 29, 2011 11:55:48 GMT -5
Post by 36fan on Aug 29, 2011 11:55:48 GMT -5
Woody, you call me ignorant ( which is a personal jab not tolerated on this site unless its by Woody Williams) because I have no idea how this went down. Then you say you are GUESSING how it all went down. I stated a fact and gave my opinion. If you don't like my opinion I'm sorry but its not gonna change. I'm not backing off because you are the owner of this site. If you can't handle my opinion of our DNR then I suppose you'll have to delete my account. All this comming from a guy that daily bashes our Commander and Chief....Kinda like a terrorist. from: www.merriam-webster.com/ig·no·rance noun \ˈig-n(ə-)rən(t)s\ : the state or fact of being ignorant : lack of knowledge, education, or awareness ig·no·rant adj \ˈig-n(ə-)rənt\ :destitute of knowledge or education <an ignorant society>; also : lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified <parents ignorant of modern mathematics> Unless you have insider knowledge we are unaware of, Woody's use of the word ignorance is correct. It's not like he called you a buffoon, which would be a personal attack.
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Busted!
Aug 29, 2011 12:06:46 GMT -5
Post by dadfsr on Aug 29, 2011 12:06:46 GMT -5
I also challenge Lug to go with an ICO for a couple of nights and/or days (if they would have him) and see what they have to put up with, the time that they put into cases of "known" criminal behavior and the paperwork involved....only to have some judge basically let the criminal misbehavior go with a slap on the wrist! It's been a few years since I did that but I was impressed with the local CO's knowledge and determination in spite of the leniency of our sometimes stupid court system....in other words don't start with nasty thoughts until you've been in their shoes!!!!....or at least followed in their tracks! There's some other background here but suffice it to say that I unknowingly once worked for one of our local deer poachers that basically got his hands slapped because of the donations he made to various hunting organizations-he had plenty of $$ and the $$ talked grrrrrr! Maybe that's also why I don't care to trophy hunt because he made a mockery of the system by his actions.
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Busted!
Aug 29, 2011 12:07:19 GMT -5
Post by Woody Williams on Aug 29, 2011 12:07:19 GMT -5
Woody, you call me ignorant ( which is a personal jab not tolerated on this site unless its by Woody Williams) because I have no idea how this went down. Then you say you are GUESSING how it all went down. Nope.. I never called you “ignorant” per say, but unless you can tell us EXACTLY what went down then you are as “ignorant” as everyone else on this board on the case. Maybe with the exception of Conservation Officer Morrison and I’m sure that he can not comment on the case. You don’t want to give the DNR boys the benefit of the doubt as to what happened. You think that it is money wasted as it appeared to you from reading a newspaper article that they went after just a petty crime against our wildlife. I and a lot of others don’t believe that at all, but somehow you are "ashamed of the DNR" because all they could get them for.
Yes, I truly believe that they went into this attempting to get this bunch on a much bigger charge and ended up they could not do it for various reasons. IMO - This was a full scale operation that cost them/us more money that the fines will be, but I’ll bet they got those boys attention and they will be under the microscope from here on in. I stated a fact and gave my opinion. If you don't like my opinion I'm sorry but its not gonna change. I'm not backing off because you are the owner of this site. If you can't handle my opinion of our DNR then I suppose you'll have to delete my account. The problem is your distaste of the DNR has clouded your judgment in this case that you know nothing about except a newspaper article. What level of proven crime, jugement and fines meets with your approval of money well spent by the DNR?
I don't guess you read many of my posts as I do call out the DNR whenn I feel that they deserve it. But that is based on facts, not something I read in a newspaper article.All this comming from a guy that daily bashes our Commander and Chief....Kinda like a terrorist. He deserves it. He might be YOUR CIC, but he is NOT MY commander in chief as I am no longer in the Army.
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Busted!
Aug 29, 2011 12:56:16 GMT -5
Post by racktracker on Aug 29, 2011 12:56:16 GMT -5
Lug,
Man do you just like to argue? The man said "in your ignorance" of the case. Now unless you can tell us what actually transpired that statement is correct, is it not?
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Busted!
Aug 29, 2011 12:58:48 GMT -5
Post by inrecordbookbuck on Aug 29, 2011 12:58:48 GMT -5
Well my stance would be..... if they could not come up with enough fines to cover the investigation..... Then it was a waste of time and money..... It doesnt matter what they tried to do, it is what they could prove..... and obviously, they were lacking..... AND I CERTAINLY DONT CARE WHO AGREES OR NOT..... just stating my opinion......
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Busted!
Aug 29, 2011 13:03:31 GMT -5
Post by d2vw14 on Aug 29, 2011 13:03:31 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300]Wow .... This went a little offtrack [/glow]
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Busted!
Aug 29, 2011 13:13:33 GMT -5
Post by racktracker on Aug 29, 2011 13:13:33 GMT -5
Well my stance would be..... if they could not come up with enough fines to cover the investigation..... Then it was a waste of time and money..... It doesnt matter what they tried to do, it is what they could prove..... and obviously, they were lacking..... AND I CERTAINLY DONT CARE WHO AGREES OR NOT..... just stating my opinion...... First off the COs are getting paid whether they are investigating a major crime or sitting on their duff. I much prefer that they are investigating crimes. If they only get one count on a perp that doesn't even come close to paying the CO's salary for his time is OK by me. Why? Because it is more than likely that perp had done that trick dozens, if not hundreds of times before. If that stops that perp then it was well worth it. A few years back John Deem caught a Poacher who killed a whopper illegally. The guy was stupid enough to post it on the net. He killed it out of season wiith high powered rifle and had no license. After all was said and done he was fined less than $100, was given his gun AND the deer's rack back. By your thinking John should have just not arrested the guy. The COs don't set fines and don't know what crime will be break even, especially in a case like this.
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