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Post by nsporleder on May 21, 2007 19:46:02 GMT -5
I may wish I had never brought this up but I respect what this site has to say.Please let me know how you feel good or bad.I'm a big boy. About 20 years back I was just getting started in turkey hunting. I found out our county was starting a new chapter of the NWTF.I had several friends that were helping to get it started.I bought my tickets and was very excited to be going to it and getting to be a new member! I knew it was a fund raiser but didn't know how all of it worked.My wife and close friends were having a pretty good time till the live auction came around.Our area doesn't have a bunch of old money. Most of the people there were in their early twenty's just getting started and like me at the time,not much "Play Money".The guys did manage to get sponsors for all the items in the package. Not long into the auction The regional rep was starting to buy everything and getting very upset over the lack of bids.He called a stop to the auction and called all the guys that were there that put it together.He told them they needed to get off their butts and start bidding.It was all down hill after that!!!.None of this was done behind closed doors or even out of ear shot.This chapter was not around by the next year. I've been a member for the past 10 -15 years and hit 1 or 2 banquets a year.I try to look at it as paying dues on the hard work the guys and gals that stared things off in the late 60's and early 70's did.It was all about the turkeys back then and the money was secondary. I got a letter from a new regional rep asking me to attend a meeting that hope to get a local chapter going again.My wife and I went a bit early so I could get a feel for what the new guy was like.We had a good conversation and he ask if I was in the old chapter so that led into telling him of the bad blood with the NWTF with several of the now older turkey hunters.He said he could understand it and that money would not be at the top of his list. About 12-15 people showed up and we got started.We talked about getting things going on a new chapter.Then later we talked about the banquet.We talked how spring time is the best time to have one.How there is less competition with sports and vacations and how people get pumped up for season early and not after.Then in the same breath he said he would like to see us have one before August.That is the year end for nwtf if my info is correct.  I couldn't believe what he was saying.I had hoped he would go with a lets set the ground works for an early spring date like we spent 15 minutes talking about.That would give us time to get the word out and even do a jakes day and other things before we start asking for money.I would want to get a good track record started and get organized this time before we hold out our hands. I was the only person that batted an eye at what he was saying.It may be because only one other person there was in the first chapter.He was the old president and was ready to jump in now.We later started to elect the officers when I suggested we might have another meeting to draw more people and get more people in on the ground floor.All thought that to be a good idea. Am I still so bitter I can't see this in the proper light?Not one word was ever said about a wild turkey or what we could do in our area to help them out. Everyone that knows me knows I'm a turkey hunting nut.I want to help the Turkeys first not the NWTF. Do I need keep my mouth shut and do as the rep wishes or bring my side to the table? |
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Post by hornharvester on May 21, 2007 22:27:44 GMT -5
I may wish I had never brought this up but I respect what this site has to say.Please let me know how you feel good or bad.I'm a big boy. About 20 years back I was just getting started in turkey hunting. I found out our county was starting a new chapter of the NWTF.I had several friends that were helping to get it started.I bought my tickets and was very excited to be going to it and getting to be a new member! I knew it was a fund raiser but didn't know how all of it worked.My wife and close friends were having a pretty good time till the live auction came around.Our area doesn't have a bunch of old money. Most of the people there were in their early twenty's just getting started and like me at the time,not much "Play Money".The guys did manage to get sponsors for all the items in the package. Not long into the auction The regional rep was starting to buy everything and getting very upset over the lack of bids.He called a stop to the auction and called all the guys that were there that put it together.He told them they needed to get off their butts and start bidding.It was all down hill after that!!!.None of this was done behind closed doors or even out of ear shot.This chapter was not around by the next year. I've been a member for the past 10 -15 years and hit 1 or 2 banquets a year.I try to look at it as paying dues on the hard work the guys and gals that stared things off in the late 60's and early 70's did.It was all about the turkeys back then and the money was secondary. I got a letter from a new regional rep asking me to attend a meeting that hope to get a local chapter going again.My wife and I went a bit early so I could get a feel for what the new guy was like.We had a good conversation and he ask if I was in the old chapter so that led into telling him of the bad blood with the NWTF with several of the now older turkey hunters.He said he could understand it and that money would not be at the top of his list. About 12-15 people showed up and we got started.We talked about getting things going on a new chapter.Then later we talked about the banquet.We talked how spring time is the best time to have one.How there is less competition with sports and vacations and how people get pumped up for season early and not after.Then in the same breath he said he would like to see us have one before August.That is the year end for nwtf if my info is correct. I couldn't believe what he was saying.I had hoped he would go with a lets set the ground works for an early spring date like we spent 15 minutes talking about.That would give us time to get the word out and even do a jakes day and other things before we start asking for money.I would want to get a good track record started and get organized this time before we hold out our hands. I was the only person that batted an eye at what he was saying.It may be because only one other person there was in the first chapter.He was the old president and was ready to jump in now.We later started to elect the officers when I suggested we might have another meeting to draw more people and get more people in on the ground floor.All thought that to be a good idea. Am I still so bitter I can't see this in the proper light?Not one word was ever said about a wild turkey or what we could do in our area to help them out. Everyone that knows me knows I'm a turkey hunting nut.I want to help the Turkeys first not the NWTF. Do I need keep my mouth shut and do as the rep wishes or bring my side to the table? Id bring it up in the next meeting and tell them exactly how you feel. The more ideas and opinions expressed in a meeting the more options you have. Make yourself heard! h.h. |
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Post by birddog on May 22, 2007 9:15:59 GMT -5
Not long into the auction The regional rep was starting to buy everything and getting very upset over the lack of bids
Believe me that rep didn't buy one of those items for himself,it was all taken back to the NWTF and taken to the next banquet!!!!
If the rep was buying and not letting the items go for what the bid was for each item I would contact the NWTF and give them what info you have.Sure it's always nice to make a "big profit" at an auction but this doesn't always happen,if the painting's,statues,etc. had needed to bring xxxx amount of dollars they could have put a minium bid on each item,then they would have had no problems,but by doing this I don't think the auctions would last much longer!!!!
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Post by oggie on May 22, 2007 9:55:36 GMT -5
It always comes down to money for NWTF including the reps pay is probably based on a percentage of the sells that is why our chapter broke after 2 years because it was all about them getting money and not wanting to give back to your chapter or community.
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Post by Woody Williams on May 22, 2007 10:13:36 GMT -5
It always comes down to money for NWTF including the reps pay is probably based on a percentage of the sells that is why our chapter broke after 2 years because it was all about them getting money and not wanting to give back to your chapter or community. I don't belong to the NWTF and probably never will. I am sure that they have done and still do some good work. However, I see them becoming more and more commercialized and seemingly just after the money. That is probably not unique to just this organization. I've seen a host of others doing the same thing. It does bother me to see the CEO using his position to make commercials saying that the product is NWTF endorsed, etc, etc.....That appears to be a sell out to me. That is why some alternate organizations are springing up. Some turkey hutners in some states have started their own turkey organizations where the monies collected stays at home in their respective states.... Since this rep seems to be talking out of both sides of his mouth at the same time,I'd pin him down on why the big hurry on the "banquet" and election of officers. I would also question him as to how much money raised stays at home. I always thought banquets were supposed to be celebration of what the organization, club, group had done the previous year and not just a money raising scheme. |
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Post by nsporleder on May 22, 2007 10:42:52 GMT -5
I guess I'm not the only one with these thoughts! I don't feel like I'm nuts anymore. Thanks to all for the insight on this!
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Post by LawrenceCoBowhunter on May 22, 2007 10:56:27 GMT -5
I agree with Woody..Some of the hunting clubs I used to belong to and some still I do(life member)..It's all about money or atleast it seems that way to me..I get stuff monthly about buying this or that or donate some money here or there...I'd rather not mess with any of it...I see the Boy Scouts going that way.money,money,money
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Post by jackc99 on May 22, 2007 12:24:00 GMT -5
I think the NWTF money goes into a state pot. None of it actually stays local. You have to request a "grant" from the state organization to get your money back.
Personally I'd like to see more of the banquets held in the fall as most are now in the February-April slot at least around Indy.
I'm currently president of a previously failed Pheasants Forever chapter and very few of the old guys came back. Better speak your mind now or it will soon be too late.
Jack
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Post by Woody Williams on May 22, 2007 12:43:23 GMT -5
From the NYSNWTF website at…. 65.36.162.66/nysnwtf/FinancialSLB_superfund.cfmSUPERFUND AND SUPERFUND BUDGET
Purpose The Wild Turkey Super Fund, here after referred to as Super Fund, was established in 1985 to fund wild turkey restoration, management, and other National Wild Turkey Federation (NWTF) projects. The Super Fund pools money generated by NWTF chapters, individual contributors and corporate donors to benefit the wild turkey. This account is administered jointly by the state & local chapter(s), state wildlife agency, and the NWTF. Throughout the year local NWTF chapters hold fund raising banquets that generate the funds that are utilized through the Super Fund system. Each year the New York State chapter and its Super Fund Committee work out a budget, and plan for the year ahead to best utilize the funds available and to fund programs & conservation projects. Local Chapters utilize the funds by submitting to the State Chapter and gaining approval for submissions that meet National & State guidelines for Super Fund Programs & Projects. The Super Fund takes full advantage of the NWTF professional staff, ensuring that funds are spent only for priority projects at the state, and national level, in the most efficient manner, and with full financial accountability. The accounting and daily administration is handled by the staff at The NWTF Wild Turkey Center and is designed to ensure accountability and maintain consistent management of the fund. This gives chapters the ability to generate funds for the wild turkey, in support of the NWTF's mission, with the assurance that they will also have a major role in helping spend the money on quality wild turkey projects. Source of funds - How Super Fund Income is determined Super Fund deposits come primarily from local chapter Super Fund Banquets & Direct Donations. The following income percentages from banquets are derived from the "net-net" proceeds, which is the resulting profit after memberships, merchandise costs, and banquet expenses are deducted from the gross income. Fifty-six percent (56%) of the "net-net" is deposited in the State Super Fund. This money is used to support priority wild turkey projects in the state or province where the money is raised. Twenty-four percent (24%) of the "net-net" is deposited in National Projects Fund and used to support wild turkey projects that have national or regional significance. Fifteen percent (15%) is used by the NWTF for program management. Four percent (4%) is returned to the local chapter, and one percent (1%) is returned to the State Chapter for programs at these levels. A pie chart showing the percentages is shown below. Direct donations are deposited to the State Super Fund or National Projects as so determined by the donor.  |
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Post by Woody Williams on May 22, 2007 12:48:17 GMT -5
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Post by hunter7x on May 22, 2007 13:10:26 GMT -5
I don't know guys, I think it's no different than the NRA, Quail unlimited, Ducks Unlimited...., it is all about the money because it's a business.
I look at the fine print when i get invited to one of any of the above banquets, it says ...please bring disposable money to spend !
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Post by turk2di on May 23, 2007 4:59:23 GMT -5
I don't know guys, I think it's no different than the NRA, Quail unlimited, Ducks Unlimited...., it is all about the money because it's a business. I look at the fine print when i get invited to one of any of the above banquets, it says ...please bring disposable money to spend ! Your deadon. It is all about money. I would tell that rep when you would like to have it. In the end, he will accept whatever your committee decides. Your puttin it on, YOU tell him!! Personally, i think the NWTF has overextended themselves with chapters everywhere. I have seen them break-up highly successfull chapters into 2 or 3 new chapters that struggle . |
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Post by hoosiertaxidermist on May 23, 2007 6:13:13 GMT -5
I have struggled with thisquestion for a while also. I have supported many banquets over the past 10-12 yrs by giving away taxidermy work. Very few of the free mnts. ever come back in so it is great advertising-read free- and tax deductible to boot. I put up a nice display and meet the people and get a free meal. Pheasant forever is the only org. that actully keeps their money in the community. Habitat restoration, tree planting, controlled burns, ect. This is a good thing. There was a posing a while back on one of these sites feom the one of the regional reps from IN NWTF. He talked about how much money went to the state and I think it was around 260,000-280,000 dollars in '06. Thats a lot of cash to put into9 the staes economy but I don't know where it went. I think they were involved in the goose pond project and a couple other small projects with the F&W also.
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Post by nsporleder on May 23, 2007 11:22:02 GMT -5
Thanks for all the help guys!Big thanks for Woody digging up that info. ;D
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Post by dec on May 23, 2007 11:43:50 GMT -5
I'm a member of the NWTF and DU. I serve on the committee for our DU chapter. I'm no "expert" on either organization, but I do get involved as my time and resources permit. I've struggled in my mind as to whether my membership in these or any other organization is worth it. But, IMO, after being involved and being a member in these for several years, my answer is "yes" it is worth it. These organizations are far from perfect, but the positive things being done far out weigh some of the garbage that takes place ... again, my opinion.
Now to address the real issues. Are these organizations all about money ... IMO ... yes. Is that inherently bad ... no. To complete the goals of organizations such as DU or NWTF, they have to have money and lots of it. Look at any "not for profit" organization. They need money to survive, most have a paid staff, they all have operating costs, they all invest right back to what their goals are. OK, there are some bad apples, but you get my point. But in the end, any organization such as this HAS to be about money. They have to get money into the coffers so that projects can be completed, expenses can be paid, promotion can be done, etc. Not saying that some including these don't go over board in some areas, they do unfortunately.
The argument I hear most often is the "what are they doing in my back yard?" question. We are a "me" society so it is natural to ask this question. Unfortunately none of these organizations can be in our own "back yards" every day, once a year, or even once every 10 years. They can't do it all and be everywhere. But they do make significant contributions and improvements to target regions.
Recently, I had a fellow DU committee member tell me that he is thinking of dropping DU because he feels that DU has dropped the ball in our particular area with a lack of recent projects. Now this guy owns several hundreds of acres of ground and has benefited from free seed from organizations such as Pheasants, NWTF, and others. He has several small wetlands that could use enhancement, but he's never once asked for help from someone such as DU.
Now let me give you an example of what asking for assistance can get you. I don't personally own a single acre of farm/woods/wetland ground. But, my in-laws do. I have two wetlands projects that I would love to have done in areas that don't support farming very well. So, I asked my father-in-law about it, he said go for it, and I contacted the regional director of DU. He put me in contact with a couple biologists. I passed on aerials and a description of what I wanted to do and within a few days we had scheduled an on site meeting with these individuals, for this coming Wednesday. Could have been sooner, but I wanted turkey season to be done. Every indication is that my two projects are going to be at least partially funded by DU and other organizations. I'm really a no body in the over all structure of these organizations, yet all I did was simply ask and present them with some information and I got an offer to help me out.
I think the problem with the "what about my back yard" argument, is that many are simply afraid to ask. They fear they will be shut down from the start. There is nothing wrong with asking for help. The worst they can do is say "no".
In general these organizations are good and making positive strides in hunting, habitat, and conservation. It will be the very rare occasion that one of these organizations opens up a significant chunk of hunting ground for you and me to hunt, but what they do do well is provide small contributions to help the average guy. That might mean supplying seeds for food plots, maybe it is supplying saplings to be planted for habitat improvement, maybe it is money to cover the costs of diesel fuel for a project, etc. Small things that make a difference if people would only ask for help and take advantage of these benefits.
Just my opinions, please take them for what they are.
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Post by larryhagmansliver on May 23, 2007 15:19:26 GMT -5
As always DEC well thought out and good points made. You know the old say "If it's not about money, it's about money". Of course it's about money. If someone dropped 10 million dollars on them, maybe it wouldn't be about the money anymore.
Larry
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Post by mullis56 on May 24, 2007 0:10:26 GMT -5
I have mixed emotions on this one, it is all about the money and the executives of these organizations make a LOT of money! Members don't take advantage of some of the benefits like $5/a bag corn for food plots that is $170 at the stores! I did this weekend and the guy said that only 2 others had been there to pick up anything, this is open to ALL members! I like the purpose of restoring the wild turkey to where it is today, but I wouldn't mind seeing more money spent locally or for the benefit of ALL hunters/donors!
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Post by bsutravis on May 24, 2007 9:29:56 GMT -5
Good thoughts Dec and Mullis...... Money makes the world go round, DU, NWTF, NRA, Red Cross, United Way......they ALL have huge piles of money that go to execs and marketing, things that the average person might think is wasteful (and some of it might be). I'm sure a lot of local projects are out there, but often go unnoticed unless they are a big marsh-reclaimation with a big board telling everyone who helped with the project.
I agree with nsporleder's original concerns about how the auction was ran, and how a Chapter needs to get their feet wet first before asking for hand-outs. I don't think I would black-list any of the conservation groups on some bad experiences. All in all, they DO as advertised.....just not to the liking of everyone all the time. Keep in mind, it's all tax-deductible contributions also.....
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Post by mullis56 on May 24, 2007 9:48:54 GMT -5
YES THEY ARE. ALSO THE CHAPTERS ARE EVALUATED BASED ON P/L AT THE BANQUETS.....SO THEY WERE JUST SAVING GRACE ON THE P/L OF THE CHAPTER DON'T KNOW? MY DAD WENT TO A DU BANQUET AND THERE WAS LIKE 20 PEOPLE THERE. HE SPENT LIKE $500 AND HAD 1/2 OF THE AUCTION ITEMS GO HOME WITH HIM.......THE OTHER HALF WENT TO A FRIEND THAT WAS WITH HIM. BAD WEATHER AND LOW TURNOUT WAS A GOOD TIME FOR THE THOSE 2 SHOW UP AND CLEAN THEM OUT. THE FMV OF THE ITEMS WASN'T MET AND THE CHAPTER LOST THIER BUTTS ON THIS. SO WHAT DID THEY DO WITH THE GOODS, WELL MORE THEN DOUBLED THEIR MONIES ON E-BAY. GOOD FOR THEM, BUT I KNOW OF OTHER CHAPTERS THAT WOULDN'T HAVE LET STUFF GO FOR THAT CHEAP AS THEY COST THEM AS A CHAPTER MORE THEN THAT. I'M TALKING A PRINT/MAT/FRAME FOR $30! MAYBE THEY SHOULD HAVE A MIN BID OR SOMETHING, BUT I THINK WHAT MY DAD TOOK PART IN WOULDN'T EVER HAPPEN AGAIN....
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Post by parrothead on May 24, 2007 9:50:41 GMT -5
There is a lady here at school I use to work with she retired. Her husband was in some wars. He told me there they were coming off the line from fighting hand to hand for 3 days straight and there is the Red Cross with hot coffee and doughnuts. Nice right. But they wanted 25 cents for it.
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