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Post by dadfsr on Nov 13, 2010 13:08:27 GMT -5
I posted up in the opening morning deer thread but just had say something here. My daughter was using my old inline Traditions this AM and dropped a doe from 62 yards. Dropped the doe in her tracks with a pass through chest shot. What really amazed my was that there was blood and "stuff" splattered over 7' up the tree that was on the exit wound side of the doe. The lungs were nothing but mincemeat when I field dressed her.
With results like that I'm not changing my ammo.
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Post by kodiak50 on Nov 15, 2010 6:27:30 GMT -5
i hear they work OK with less than maximum loads.
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Post by barton174 on Nov 15, 2010 9:17:46 GMT -5
I also posted this in the deer hunting thread, but this is the second deer that I have the bullet from... 245 grain PowerBelt with (3) 777 pellets (150 grains) of powder, out of a CVA Wolf... Second one that has gone in, through heart and both lungs, then out the rib cage, but not through the skin on the other side... This one stayed together and mushroomed, but the other one lost a small chunk...
To me, that shows about the perfect combo... A bullet that gets full penetration, but doesn't waste any energy by carrying it out the other side... It deposits it (kenetic energy) all in the animal.
Mike
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Post by danf on Nov 18, 2010 20:13:41 GMT -5
Two years ago she shot a buck with the same combination (not sure about the type of powder, but the same bullet) and it had complete penetration and lodged under the skin on the off side. To me, that leaves too much to chance- a complete pass through every time is much more preferred than lodging under the skin on the off side. Besides knowing you had more than enough energy, 2 bleeding holes certainly leave a much better blood trail than one hole. I had to track the buck she shot 2 years ago and it was not an easy trail to follow even though it was a very good hit. Roarke's words certainly ring true for deer as much as for African game- "Bring enough gun".  |
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Post by barton174 on Nov 19, 2010 9:10:33 GMT -5
The "bring enough gun" is certainly true, but we're somewhat limited on that, in Indiana, and limited on that, completely, with a ML...
I'm already firing a "magnum" load in my ML, so that's a pretty set amount of energy that's available for use... I shot a deer last year with either the 295 or the 348 grain Powerbelt... Mis-judged range in the field and hit high, so I had to track anyway, but it was a .5" hole going in, and a perfect .5" hole leaving... What it did hit looked like somebody had drilled a perfect hole through it, because the bullet wasn't going fast enough to make the hollow-point work very well, so it didn't expand... It went right through, and didn't make much of a mess while inside...
The 245gr bullets travel a bit faster with the same load, and do seem to mushroom out very well! I haven't measured it (I will when I get home), but the mushroom from this bullet looks to be somewhere close to 1", and really, really, makes a mess of whatever it hits, inside...
Yeah, it'd be great to hunt with a 300 winmag, or a .338 Lapua, but we don't have that chance, here... I gather that the .458 SOCOM, and a lot of the "barely legal" wildcats are really good, but they just aren't a big, high powered rifle round...
FWIW, the load above (150gr, .50, 245gr BC Powerbelt) has the same muzzle energy as the .458 SOCOM...
Mike
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Post by hornharvester on Nov 19, 2010 12:26:28 GMT -5
Curious, what is the definition of "barely legal"? Either it is or isn't to me.
The .358 BFG or WSSM is indeed a big game round and very close to 340 Weatherby mag, 350 Remington mag or .348 Winchester ballistics. These guns are capable of 500 yard kills if you can shoot that far. I personally know a guy who shot a buck two years ago at 456 yards using a 35 WSSM wildcat and dropped him in his tracks.
What ever bullet a person chooses to hunt with should be accurate and carry enough energy to kill the intended target humanly. I personally like a bullet that will shoot thru the deer, hole in and hole out. Barnes bullets are one that usually does and are my choice for muzzle loading but I use a Savage with smokeless powder.
Any 300 grain bullet with the right shot placement hammers whitetail deer. Bullets that frag out will blow up on close shoulder shots on big deer and only get one lung and the deer run off. Move that deer back 60 - 70 yards more and the same bullet will do it job and take out both lungs.
All bullets kill, its the placement of the shot that counts! h.h.
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Post by barton174 on Nov 19, 2010 13:00:58 GMT -5
Search the Internet... You'll get a lot of information if you search "barely legal"
Really, though, I consider anything that is just barely (a few thousandths) less than the max allowable length/caliber... Not meaning barely legal to say "bad", but rather, to distinguish it from a .357Mag, or another caliber that's in the middle of the specified legal range of lengths/calibers.
FWIW, this shot was at maybe 20 yards... Bullet stayed together, mushroomed perfectly, and made it all the way through everything but the other side of the skin...
I do agree, though, that shot placement is more key than a super-duper magic bullet. This is part of the reason I don't have a problem hunting with a single shot.
Mike
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Post by oldhoyt on Nov 19, 2010 16:35:03 GMT -5
I'm in the "two holes" camp. I want that bullet to exit. Hornady FPBs have done well for me on deer from 30 to 100 yds, with 100 gr loose Pyrodex.
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Post by omegahunter on Nov 22, 2010 10:33:21 GMT -5
I'm in the "two holes" camp. I want that bullet to exit.. Amen. |
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Post by barton174 on Nov 22, 2010 19:17:13 GMT -5
Obviously, we all want the bullet to be 1" dia AND exit the other side (as far as I'm concerned, it can fall out the other side of the skin); but I'm surprised how many people want a .5" bullet that holds its shape and definitely goes through both sides, with comparatively minimal trauma; rather than a bullet that turns into a flat shape at 1" and creates maximum trauma (4x the trauma area based on diameter alone, if you haven't done the math on it (not even counting the larger shock trauma from the flat shape)), fully penetrates, and maybe goes through the skin on the second side, and maybe doesn't... The 2 hearts and 3 lungs I've shot through with these bullets have had larger holes in them, and been more torn up than they were with the soft 12ga slugs that did go through both sides, and started out at a larger diameter...
Mike
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Post by danf on Nov 22, 2010 22:13:50 GMT -5
The size of the bullet under the skin on the off side matters very little if there is no blood trail to follow from the start. I don't care if the bullet falls straight down to the ground on the off side- I want two holes. Two 1/2" diameter holes will bleed out a lot faster than a single 1/2" diameter hole- especially when the deer is shot from an elevated stand and the entry hole is higher on the deer!
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Post by barton174 on Nov 22, 2010 22:50:03 GMT -5
I guess there really isn't any reason to argue about something that's a preference... Fact is, there are shots (that happen, sadly) where the bullet doesn't quite hit its mark, and you do have to track a blood trail... The second hole in the skin won't make it die any faster, but I'll admit that it makes it easier to track... On the other hand, if the shot is good, it will more than likely die faster from the bigger bullet/trauma; and in certain shots, the bigger/tumbling bullet is the difference between a heart hit and a torso shot that doesn't hit anything vital... There's also the rain, where you can't hardly track anything, were you want it to drop quicker, regardless of how much blood leaves the body... Ideally, you want both, but sometimes you can have both, and sometimes you can't...
Mike
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Post by trapperdave on Dec 5, 2010 12:53:20 GMT -5
my experiences with powerbelts left me looking for something better, much better. (not to mention looking for a bloodtrail that didnt exist  ) shockwaves have impressed me, and filled the freezer (and it looked like a crimescene  ) |
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Post by 36fan on Dec 6, 2010 14:02:56 GMT -5
my experiences with powerbelts left me looking for something better, much better. (not to mention looking for a bloodtrail that didnt exist ) shockwaves have impressed me, and filled the freezer (and it looked like a crimescene ) I found just the opposite - I dumped shockwaves and went to powerbelts. No bloodtrail from the shockwave, and massive, easily followed blood trail for the powerbelt. I also like the wider diameter of the powerbelt (no sabot) has compared to the shockwave. I went on Cabella's and read the reviews and found a lot of people were having issues w/ the shockwaves leaving bloodtrails. For the record, I'm using a Remington 700 ML w/ 100 gr 777, and 209 primer, and 295 gr powerbelts. ...but I am thinking about getting some Barnes and giving them a go. I really like the expansion and cutting edges of the all copper bullet as it expands - based on the marketing claims of Barnes, of course. |
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Post by dadfsr on Dec 9, 2010 9:23:46 GMT -5
Looks real similar to a bullet I've got still sitting on the kitchen window sill from the year before-that buck only went about 20 yards. I knew as soon as the smoke cleared enough that I wouldn't have any tracking to do.
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Post by danf on Dec 9, 2010 21:07:28 GMT -5
Thought that bullet on the window sill was from Darcy's buck in '08....?
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Post by maddog on Dec 12, 2010 18:15:37 GMT -5
Well, I have no issues with the powerbelts. I've taken 3 deer the last 2 yrs. with them, and my son got his 1st ML kill, this season with them. Big thing is don't drive them too fast, cause they are soft lead bullets. I use 80 gr. of T7 3fg. Seems to be good enough.
maddog
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