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Post by StingyRog on Nov 1, 2010 15:51:23 GMT -5
Last year I bought a H&R .44 mag, topped it with a Nikon 3-9x40 Prostaff scope and shot Hornady Leverevolution 225 grain ammo. The gun is extremely accurate, 1" groups at 100 yards. I let my son use it last gun season. This year I bought another H&R .44 mag for myself with a 2-7x32 Nikon scope and shot the same ammo out of it as the first gun. These guns are identical except for the scope. This gun will hit a pie plate at a 100 yards and no better. This is being shot off of sand bags not off hand. Any ideas? The scope mounts are tight. Is there another ammo out there that has the same concept as the Hornadys that I could try? May just have to use the Contender again this year. Thanks.
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Post by huxbux on Nov 1, 2010 19:23:34 GMT -5
Several possibilities. The same model rifle may not like the same ammo, no one can explain why this is other than the fact that no two barrels are identical. The scope could be defective, have you proved it out with a box test? The ammo - is it from the same lot as was fired from the other rifle? Even Hornady sometimes puts out a bad lot of ammo.
One more thing I can think of. I no longer zero a firearm with three shot groups. They prove practically nothing and can cause a fellow to chase zero all day long.
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Post by dadfsr on Nov 1, 2010 19:41:33 GMT -5
and I was just looking your place up on Mapquest today...hope you get it figured out.
Both guns brand new? Bullets seating the same in both? Switch scopes and see what happens??
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Post by danf on Nov 1, 2010 20:14:00 GMT -5
It was just mentioned on a different forum by a poster that he at one point had scope base mounting screws that were just a hair too long and were bottoming out in the screw hole but gave the impression that they were tight. Apparently the barrel gave him fits until he figured out what the problem was. Something to check if everything else is OK.
Try swapping scopes with a known good scope if you haven't already- there's a slight chance that it could be a bad scope.
Different guns like different ammo, though I can't imagine one would dislike a certain kind of ammo that it would produce groups that size. My Contender carbine 44 mag likes Winchester white box ammo just fine and I haven't tried any other commercial loads.
One more thing- the gun is brand new? Did you clean the barrel before shooting? Even if you did, either get some Remington 40x bore cleaner (and RemOil) or some JB Bore paste and follow the directions. If the gun is brand new or hardly fired, there could be a very, very slight burr in the rifling somewhere that is causing issues. Either the 40x or the JB will take care of that- essentially they will allow you to bypass a "break-in". I've used the 40x in the past, using between 50 and 100 strokes in the barrel and had good results.
Even if the gun is not new there's a chance the barrel is fouled with either copper or lead, run a patch soaked in cleaner down the barrel, run a dry one and take a look with a light shining down the bore. You'll see it in the grooves if it's fouled.
Last thing to check, and probably not something you'd think you'd need to check on a new gun: the crown. If the crown is bad or it got out of the factory without one, that would be enough to produce the results you are getting.
Good luck.
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Post by parson on Nov 2, 2010 5:09:22 GMT -5
www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/board,126.0.html There's a lot of good info on these guns at this site. You can typically get some good troubleshooting tips there. Hope you get it solved.
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Post by drs on Nov 2, 2010 5:23:54 GMT -5
Could be four issues:
1. Your ammo might be a bad batch. Also ammo performance, in regards to accuracy, velocity, ect. vary from lot to lot.
2. Scope mounts might be too loose and change the POI with each shot due to recoil.
3. The mounting holes in the rifle might be out-of-line. Buy a one piece mount with windage adjustments.
4. The barrel's rifling might be defective.
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Post by parson on Nov 2, 2010 8:48:52 GMT -5
I bought an H&R 44 mag almost a year ago that actually had a 444 marlin barrel that had been marked wrong! The brass was expanded to the point of being ruined after firing, and the accuracy was much like you describe with yours. H&R did replace it for me- even paid the freight.
I doubt that mine was the only gun that this happened to. Might want to measure the chamber.
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Post by drs on Nov 2, 2010 9:10:06 GMT -5
I bought an H&R 44 mag almost a year ago that actually had a 444 marlin barrel that had been marked wrong! The brass was expanded to the point of being ruined after firing, and the accuracy was much like you describe with yours. H&R did replace it for me- even paid the freight. I doubt that mine was the only gun that this happened to. Might want to measure the chamber. Good Point. parson. Lot of these "lower priced" single shots are made in other countries, especially the barrels. While the possibility of having the wrong caliber marked on the barrel would be quite rare, it does show that the rifle wasn't checked-out before shipping. If this isn't his problem, being his H&R is not marked with the correct caliber; then I suspect the barrel isn't any good. I have a feeling a lot oof gun manufactures are using cheap inferior low grade Chinese steel thesedays in their barrel production.
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Post by parson on Nov 2, 2010 9:47:56 GMT -5
The H&R Hand is,as far as I know, made in the USA.
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Post by drs on Nov 2, 2010 9:48:51 GMT -5
The H&R Hand is,as far as I know, made in the USA. Might be but where are they getting their material?
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Post by StingyRog on Nov 2, 2010 10:22:51 GMT -5
The scope could be defective, have you proved it out with a box test? What and how do I do this? Both guns where bought brand new. The only difference in the 2 guns is the scope and the scope mounts. My first .44 has Weaver mounts on it. The mount has 2 screws on one side to tighten the scope to the mount. The other side hooks together. www.weaveroptics.com/rings_bases/rings/detachable_alum/standard_detachable.aspx Looks like these. The scope for the new .44 supposedly came with weaver mounts but no where on the mounts does it say Weaver. There are 2 screws, one on each side that tighten the scope to the mount. The mount has 2 set screws, one on each side that tightens the mount to the rail. I had to tighten both screws, the same amount, to lock it to the rail. To me it looks like I could move the mounts to the right or left depending on how much I tightened each screw. Hope this makes since. Maybe I should add pictures. www.weaveroptics.com/rings_bases/rings/grandslamsteel/standardrings.aspx Looks like these. To be honest I dont like the mounts but the other Weaver mounts I had dont sit high enough for the scope to clear the cocking lever. Thanks for all your ideas!
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Post by StingyRog on Nov 2, 2010 10:45:59 GMT -5
UM.................. Well I feel like the rear end of a donkey. After reading all these posts I went and got the gun to look at the rings. Then I grabbed the scope and tried moving it. The whole rail is loose! Could this be the problem? It wasnt loose when I mounted the scope. Evidently the recoil loosened it up. Back to shooting range.
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Post by dadfsr on Nov 2, 2010 10:49:11 GMT -5
I still think that just swapping the scopes or at least putting the scope/mount off the "old" gun onto the "new" gun for some sandbag shots would tell you right away whether you've got a scope/mount problem or a gun problem....but that's just my untrained two cents worth
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Post by drs on Nov 2, 2010 12:31:01 GMT -5
On a .44 Magnum rifle; I'd go and buy a Leupold 2-7X33mm Heavy Duplex scope. One for shotgun/Muzzle Loader, as they are parallax free @ 75 yards. Buy this and a better mount/ring assembly.
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Post by parson on Nov 2, 2010 12:57:18 GMT -5
I shot almost a whole box of 30-06 through a Rem. 700 once, trying to get it to group. Finally found pretty much the same problem- loose screw! Always is good to start from the ground, or the mounts, up.
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Post by Shelby County Switchback on Nov 2, 2010 13:56:47 GMT -5
Has anyone experienced any issues with the Marlin 44 mag 1894? i am picking mine up today and i have high hopes and expectations for this gun?
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Post by dbd870 on Nov 2, 2010 17:01:21 GMT -5
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Post by parson on Nov 2, 2010 18:41:01 GMT -5
I had one that had a very oversized bore. I cast some .433 bullets that shot fairly well. That was a couple of years ago. Hopefully they have corrected that problem.
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Post by danf on Nov 2, 2010 20:23:24 GMT -5
Take the rings/scope off the rail, completely disassemble the rail from the barrel, clean everything up as well as possible. Use some BLUE (do NOT use RED) Loc-tite on the screw threads when you re-assemble. Sounds like the rings you have may be similar to the Millet rings I have on my carbine. I have not had an issue with them yet and they've been on the gun for almost 2 years and probably a 4-500 round of ammo.
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Post by huxbux on Nov 2, 2010 20:54:28 GMT -5
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