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Post by fullrut on Aug 31, 2010 19:53:37 GMT -5
Just put together a new Indiana Legal Deer Rifle. The frame is an Encore, Scope is Burris and barrel is an MGM custom 358wssm. Should shoot 2700fps which is basically the same as a 270. Should shoot a hare flatter than a 270. Can't wait to try it out.
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Post by huxbux on Aug 31, 2010 20:26:59 GMT -5
That should reach out and touch 'em! Beautiful rifle.
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Post by Decatur on Aug 31, 2010 21:48:26 GMT -5
Nice!
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Post by oldhoyt on Sept 1, 2010 6:38:31 GMT -5
If you don't mind me asking, what was the cost of the gun without scope and mounts?
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Post by fullrut on Sept 21, 2010 17:10:41 GMT -5
Here is the business end of this new rifle.
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Post by Woody Williams on Sept 21, 2010 18:33:49 GMT -5
I just got two words for that cartridge.....
BAD BOY!!
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Post by HuntMeister on Sept 21, 2010 19:07:37 GMT -5
So how bout a field report! You shootin over a chrony? What kind of trajectory you getting with it? Inquiring minds want to know! ;D
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Post by fullrut on Sept 21, 2010 19:12:00 GMT -5
2630fps. 2"high at 100yds=dead on @200yds, 10"low@300yds, 21"low@400yds. Basically hold on the deer from 0 to 400 and its dead.
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Post by huxbux on Sept 21, 2010 20:17:10 GMT -5
Hold on the deer anywhere from 0 - 400 yds? With a 23" trajectory? Not possible.
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Post by steve46511 on Sept 22, 2010 2:31:18 GMT -5
Just helping, I hope. I ran this because of all summer calculations on a faster round with MUCH better bullet BC being in the area of your statement (but agree with Hux....even IF 21 inch drop at 400.....that's a foot over back min hold over) 2630 fps .405 BC 225 grain TSX bullet (was just one I picked) 200 yard zero 10mph cross wind FOUR INCH vital zone radius ( max high/low trajectory. Pretty big but puts an 8 inch circle in the deer's chest) Point blank range? 287 yards ( IF zeroed at 244 yards) Make it a THREE inch vital zone radius it drops to 257 yards PBR Another point of interest, might be, at what range of FPS your bullet of choice performs within. Under whatever min suggested velocity on impact would not be preferable since producing poor bullet performance. TO ME, stats show a good solid 300 yard (added much later.....BUT capable WAY past that ballistically with hold over) round (but still a top of the back hold with 200 yard zero), and a great set up for IN deer but IMHO, still info needed.
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Post by HuntMeister on Sept 22, 2010 6:34:16 GMT -5
Very nice rifle and round Fullrut. Hope to see your smiling mug with it and a buck this season. Thanks for the details on the performance.
Steve, just for comparison, can you run your calculator for the .270 with say a 140 grain pill of the same variety you used for the .358 wissam?
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Post by hornharvester on Sept 22, 2010 7:30:59 GMT -5
Real life data will show the bullets drop more than the charts say they will. I highly suggest you shoot your gun at the furtherest distance you will be hunting and check your groups. Most likely you will find theres more drop than you think. Published B.C. of most bullet companies are usually on the high side from actually reality and the speed of the bullet also changes the B.C..
A 400 yard shot is not an easy task unless you practice at that distance.
The 358 WSSM in no way will fly like a .270 because of the B.C. of the .270 is far better, other words the .270 wont drop as much.
Ive shot most all the .358 bullets available for the .358 WSSM and if you are looking for a bullet for the long distance shot the Nosler 225 grain Accubond or Sierra 225 grain SP are the two top choices. That being said I'm going to shoot the Barnes 200 grain TSX flying @ 2640 FPS or the 180 grain Speer SP @ 2800 fps. Both are very accurate in my gun. h.h.
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Post by steve46511 on Sept 22, 2010 8:33:02 GMT -5
Actually HH.......I was surprised myself.
The .277 bullets in 140 grain DONT have a better BC. It's almost identical comparing the 140 grain, .277 to the 225 grain, .358. (at least on the Barnes site).
The HIGH BC bullets are the 6.5 and 7mm. Instead of .404 and .405 a 130 grain 6.5 is .552 (advertised.......good point on the REAL results varying rifle to rifle and advertised BC too, HH) a 140 grainer is .612 "as advertised". (These are also Berger hunting VLD bullets)
A 140 grain at 2700 fps (from above) increased the PBR very little in yards. 287 for the 358, 294 yd for the 140 grain, 270 at 2700 but.......see below.
Largest difference as far as possible trajectories comparing the .358 and the 270 is that a 140 grain bullet can be pushed to 2900 fps and the highly common 130 grainer for a 270 Win can top 3000.......if you want to push it (IMR powder stats)
What trajectory gain that gives you (by the charts) is 2 inches less drop at 300 and 5 inches less at 400 yet, again, what real gain there is that at 400 yards the bullet is still over 2000 fps.
The 358 WSSM is indeed shooting much flatter than what WE here in IN normally use of course. I just didnt want to have too much out there that made it seem like TOO much a wonder round and extreme shots are taken. No offense to ANYONE here.
In the hands of someone WELL acquainted with the gun , round and trajectory.......paying closer attention to what velocities the bullet will perform, it will cleanly (by the numbers) take a deer way out past ranges most of us have available.......and for me, probably further than I could see there WAS a deer LOL.
Same goes for the 6.5x284 in a LR pistol. It will shoot WAY further than I can, Im sure. You watch....should I take a few, 90 percent will be under 150 yards if not all of em! Still fun!
Pick your weapon and caliber, learn it, be safe and hunt smart.
God Bless Steve
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Post by swilk on Sept 22, 2010 8:38:00 GMT -5
I dont think I would take a 400 yard shot with my 358 ....
100 yards is a chip-shot.
200 yards makes you think about it pretty good but isnt really that tough.
300 yards takes about every inch of marksmanship I can muster in a hunting situation.
400 yards I wouldnt even consider unless I was punching paper off a bench.
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Post by steve46511 on Sept 22, 2010 8:42:35 GMT -5
A quick addition...........300 yards.
In my scouting Ive taken note what landmarks I HAD at 300 yards.
That is ONE LONG WAYS here in my neck of the woods and unless standing (odd) in the middle of a picked corn field.....Id never, or rarely, see the deer!
Not all hunting areas are the same, mine are pretty standard for here in N. IN. Yep there ARE some ranges available 300 and over.......but the odds of deer BEING in that area are pretty low.
God Bless Steve
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Post by HuntMeister on Sept 22, 2010 10:22:38 GMT -5
I agree...I have been in that 400 yard hunting scenario with sticks too and it was beyond my ability at that time and I shouldn't have taken the shot. At 300+ I managed to get it done but shot placement wasn't prefered and the critter had to suffer for my lack of judgement / skills. I will always regret taking that shot and making the critter suffer. Anyone that intends to take those long range shots should practice their tail off to insure the skills to make a good shot. I dont think I would take a 400 yard shot with my 358 .... 100 yards is a chip-shot. 200 yards makes you think about it pretty good but isnt really that tough. 300 yards takes about every inch of marksmanship I can muster in a hunting situation. 400 yards I wouldnt even consider unless I was punching paper off a bench.
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Post by huxbux on Sept 22, 2010 19:18:03 GMT -5
At those ranges, you had better be well schooled at factoring in the wind also.
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Post by fullrut on Sept 22, 2010 20:32:36 GMT -5
Thanks for the input guys. I am a deer hunter not a rifle guru like some of you. All I know is that I have killed deer out to 390yds and feel confident that I can do it. Do I wanna take that shot, NO, will I take it, YES. This 358wssm seems to be an awesome round and I will post some pics of the deer who fall to it this fall. THANKS
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Post by oldhoyt on Sept 23, 2010 9:00:11 GMT -5
Strange that you would take a shot you don't want to take. Makes no sense to me. After all, nobody is twisting your arm. I only take shots I want to take. I'm guessing if any hunter shoots at a deer, he/she wanted to. If you feel you "had to" take a long shot, maybe that needs rethinking.
I will not shoot at deer with a gun beyond 125 yards or so. If I see a good buck at 150, do I want to shoot him? Yes. Will I shoot at him? No.
The way I hunt, the advantage of a rifle is the ability to hit a baseball size target out to around 100 yds. I have more confidence in a rifle than I do with my slug gun or ML. I don't need a deer to be in the open to shoot at him, I only need a small opening to "thread the needle". A rifle is a better tool for this.
There are shooters with more ability that I possess, and I can't say that a 400 yd shot is unethical for everyone. However, it is inarguable that ALL shooters will have greater success when shooting at closer ranges as compared to longer ranges. Where to draw the line is up to the individual. For me, it's about 125 yds.
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Post by huxbux on Sept 23, 2010 17:33:57 GMT -5
Thanks for the input guys. I am a deer hunter not a rifle guru like some of you. All I know is that I have killed deer out to 390yds and feel confident that I can do it. Do I wanna take that shot, NO, will I take it, YES. This 358wssm seems to be an awesome round and I will post some pics of the deer who fall to it this fall. THANKS I have no doubt that you can take deer with that set-up at 400 yds. if you have the skills, have practiced regularly out to that distance, and have schooled yourself in factoring the wind with that particular loading. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I was only pointing out that with a 23 " bullet drop, a dead -on hold on a deer would be quite impossible as even a very large whitetail deer only measures !8" - 20"from the top of the back to the brisket.
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