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Post by Woody Williams on Jul 30, 2010 19:37:43 GMT -5
What would your deer proposal be?
What would your deer proposal be if you were “King of the DNR”?
Keep in mind the goal is to reduce the herd and attempt to achieve a 60/40 female to male harvest.
Here is mine - I would add the new nonresident youth deer license types I would make the nonresident antlerless bonus tags the same price as the residents - $24 for the first and $15 thereafter. Kentucky and Illinois both have very reasonable NR bonus permits. Bonus tags prior to October 1st would sell for $13 each. On October 1 they would go back up to $24 for the first and $15 for each one thereafter. I would require hunter orange for youth hunters during the youth special deer season and during the new antlerless only seasons. I would require that a a hunter orange patch measuring 4” by 4” be on all four sides of factory manufactured deer blinds when hunter orange is season required. I would require the owner’s name and address on ground blinds used on department properties. Not sure how many leave blinds out on state property. I know I wouldn’t. Allow a crossbow to be used by any hunter during all seasons. Ohio archery hunters (vertical and crossbow) killed 91,526 deer last year. 49,057 with crossbows and 42,469 with vertical bows. Vertical bowhunters have set harvest records for the last 11 years straight. This is a big missed opportunity to kill more deer. I would allow youth hunters to take the number of antlerless deer allowed in each county during the special youth deer season (in addition to one antlered deer) I would extend the urban deer season through January 15 of the following year. More than that we are getting into developed fetus and dropped antler time. EAB that requires archery hunters to take at least one antlerless deer prior to taking an antlered deer in the urban deer season. EAB on a second buck statewide. General firearm tag to be either sex. Since the gun hunters are the major source of controlling the herd I would leave the firearms season as it is today. If I did anything I would follow Kentucky’s lead and time the opener to the rut. More deer, buck and does, are killed during early start dates as opposed to late start dates. I would leave the muzzleloader season alone. Their kill is 80% now. They should be rewarded, not penalized. I would add two antlerless deer only seasons in October on two separate weekends in counties with an antlerless quota of 4 or more. These weekends would be the next two weekends after the youth hunt weekend. The hunter would be able to take the number of antlerless deer in each county allowed under the bonus county quota. I would add another antlerless deer only season from December 25 through the first Sunday of January the following year. Ending this season on January 1 might miss a weekend when hunter have the time to get out and hunt and more deer are killed. The hunter would be able to take the number of antlerless deer in each county allowed under the bonus county quota. The hunter may use any deer tag that he had not used in the proceeding seasons. These special antlerless deer seasons would give Indiana gun and MZ deer hunters 5 “opening gun dates”. My wish list.. .
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Post by hornharvester on Jul 30, 2010 20:04:22 GMT -5
Leave everything in place as it is now except EAB in urban, add crossbows in all archery, add a 5 day muzzleloader season in mid October, add a 2 week any weapon doe season in early January. h.h.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2010 20:20:07 GMT -5
I can't argue with any of Woody's wish list, but would add a few more that would make a lot more meat.
1. As mentioned, if the DNR wants NR help, they have to drop the $150 doe tag on the first one. Until they do, they aren't seriuos about killing more does. Ky. sells two does for $15 amd in some counties you can kill all you want. I don't know any NR hunters that can't kill does cheaper at home than you can in Ind.....$150 has to be lowered.
2. Keep the season structure as it is, both in lenght and start date. The data on each day and what happens in different types of weather is already gathered. Try ALL the other suggested solutions before you change something you already know works well.
3. Add full use of the crossbow. Period it will make sense and add many does to the coffers.
4. If you want people to kill more does than they want to kill, you have to have in place a free drop off program. Use local jail trustees to cut and process the meat. Hundreds of folks will take it once it's cut and packed.
5. Consider either sex seaon changes instead of antlerless only. Such as a 2 day either sex ML season in Oct. and a 2 day either sex youth hunt in Oct. Why would the DNR care when you kill a buck if the true goal is as stated?
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Post by jjas on Jul 30, 2010 20:27:06 GMT -5
If I were king of the DNR, I'd.......
Add EAB in urban.
Sell a buck/doe combo license for $38.50 (24.00 and 13.50) that can be used in any season and w/any weapon. If hunters are carrying a buck and a doe tag they are likely to fill them.
Add a 2 day October antlerless only.
Sell bonus doe tags for 13.50 (whether it's the 1st or 8th tag purchased).
Leave early archery alone w/the exception of adding xbows for all who wish to use them. Xbows would be a great tool to hunt deer on small parcels of ground that don't lend themselves to gun hunting.
Leave the gun season alone.
Leave the muzzleloader season as is.
Add a week long antlerless only season near the end of the year IF harvest data supports the need for it during that particular season.
Add the requirement for hunter orange on ground blinds. More and more hunters are using them and safety is all important.
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Post by Decatur on Jul 30, 2010 20:53:15 GMT -5
All great ideas. I could fully support any of these plans. Expanding a bit on Timex's prison butchering thing, why couldn't we feed the inmates venison as well as give it to the needy. It would surely save some tax dollars.
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Post by turkeyscout on Jul 30, 2010 20:57:53 GMT -5
NO firearm anterless hunts in earily archery season, leave opener of firearm season alone and leave opener of muzzle-loader season alone!!!!! add cross-bow to earily archery season! and throw in TELE-CHECK for deer and turkey!! and maybe a anterless season for five days , the day after Christmas.... .....turkey scout
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Post by tenring on Jul 30, 2010 20:58:04 GMT -5
1. Keep current seasons as is.
2.Create system whereby "excess" does may be dropped off for free processing for food banks.
3. a. Create Telecheck for real time info in case of need for "clean up" season. b. $1000.00 mandatory fine for willingly, and intentionally falsifying information for Telecheck.
4.Add fee of $1.00 to each tag to be split to finance 2&3.
5.Increase access to private land.
6.Structure tag fees on a year to year basis.
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Post by Decatur on Jul 30, 2010 21:04:56 GMT -5
I also believe, that to get a depredation permit, you have to allow hunting on your land. Of course, I hate the idea of telling someone what they have to do on their land, but deer belong to the people of the state of Indiana, and shooting them and leaving them lay is wanton waste (a game law violation). If you are experiencing THAT much crop damage, you'll find somebody you trust to hunt your property. Of course, a lot of farmers may just start SSS deer. For them, if they are caught, prosecute like any other poacher.
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Post by deerman1 on Jul 30, 2010 21:18:56 GMT -5
I would leave all the current season openers alone they work they are not broken . That said I would simply take the one week of no hunting between gun and ML and turn it into an Antler less only season.
I would not open a antler less season in Oct . The foliage is way way to thick and everybody and his brother are in the woods or Fields or yards doing something from Hunting to ,leaf looking ,to farming 90% of all crops come in in Oct . Wood cutting you name it . Not a good time of year for long range killers to be throwing lead even in what they presume to be a safe direction. IMHO This can not be justified for any reason .
I would make one huge change in license structure . I would simp0ly sell deer tags not a gun ,or bow ,or buck or ML , just tags period . And The first tag a hunter will receive is a Two for the price of one . So that the hunter can shoot any combination in any season of deer they wish without paying through the nose just be cause the calender added another day .
I would legalize XBow to the same laws a vertical bows have today.No nonsense here just hunt .
I would also Bring back the second buck for anyone who shoots an antler less deer if they want it. So in fact EAB the second buck only .
I would also allow non magnum CFR cartridges .This messing around a little bit at time is childish and indecisive it shows lack of leadership and their knowledge of what is being used now for varmints and fur bearers and the capabilities in the hands of average hunters .
I would have a 9 day late any weapon Antler less season the shut the whole shooting match including UDZs .And settle for what you got there is always next year.
I would simplifier the as much as possible .I would charge for only one year an extra .50 cents on each license sold to pay for TELE CHEK it will be here and the sooner it gets here the more deer will die especially in the early season and on Sundays .Lets face it the system we are under now was put in place to monitor and check on the health and herd growth and all the stats that come with that "It was fine when we were in the herd Building business". Not anymore.
I would also Disband any type of Share holders or committee's or the special interest lobbies input to our hunting Rules and regs of all animals . That job would belong to the Biologists and DR heads to come up with a plan then present it in all means or avenues like radio ,TV ,paper ,Internet , Have a 4 regional meetings on the new laws .Then the most important part would be to have a on line Questionnaire that at the time of a person buying their first license of the year "Must" complete and it would be your Vote .LTL holders could Vote by phone or Internet only one time much like we do here .Then we would live with the outcome for 3 years then a quick DNR review and if it accomplished what it was supposed to or was on the right path it would become law .If not back to the drawing board and make it right or adjust it and then vote again .If it worked ok then.
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Post by lugnutz on Jul 30, 2010 21:30:30 GMT -5
I would throw away our ENTIRE hunting and trapping guide, and follow KY's to a T.
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Post by HuntMeister on Jul 30, 2010 22:20:34 GMT -5
Urban deer season extension til mid January and (reluctantly) include EAB as proposed.
Youth season changes as proposed.
October antlerless season, 1 week in duration immediately following the youth season.
Full inclusion of the crossbow.
No changes to the firearms / ML seasons.
Late antlerless season starting 25DEC and running thru first weekend of the new year.
Increase rifle case dimensions as proposed and add 30-30 Winchester, 35 Remington and 45-70 calibers to the legal list.
Bonus tags prior to October 1st would sell for $13 each. On October 1 they would go back up to $24 for the first and $15 for each one thereafter.
Firearms tag to be either sex.
Telecheck...with a small fee increase if needed to fund it.
Nonresident bonus tags fee to be same as resident bonus tag fees.
Ground blind / hunter orange changes as proposed.
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Post by thecommissioner on Jul 31, 2010 2:46:42 GMT -5
Every hunter who checked in a deer taken from his/her land or land that he/she leased would generate a property tax credit for the landowner.
If the lessee is smart, they will write a lease contract that stipulates reimbursement of the credit to him/her because they are the ones who generated the credit.
Of course this idea is way outside of the authority of the IDNR Director but we can engage in wishful thinking, right? ;D
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Post by thecommissioner on Jul 31, 2010 4:28:16 GMT -5
On second thought:
1a) No firearms season for antlerless only until after the traditional antlered deer firearms season has ended.
1b) If the anterless kill during archery and traditional firearms season has not met the quota prior to the anterless-only firearms season, reimburse a portion of the cost of the license for each legally killed anterless deer brought to the check station. Create a cash incentive for participating in the anterless-only firearms season.
2) Legalize rifles in the 30-30, .35 Remington family for use in the part of the state south of US 50 and east of US 231 outside of the urban zones. If the safety record after five years of experience is good, then expand the part to south of I 70 outside the urban zones.
3) Quit equating able-bodied hunters age 64 and above with the disabled. Legalize crossbows for all hunting seasons for all hunters.
4) Keep the one buck rule.
5) Tax hunting-only lease income at a lower rate. Yes, this will encourage more leasing which is bad in the short run but it provides a greater incentive for landowners to make land available to hunters. Make it even more interesting by giving lessees a tax deduction for hunting-only leases. Of course some hunters of other species (birds, ducks) will benefit but that can't be helped. 'Free' hunting on private land is going the way of the dinosaur so we need to learn how to operate in the future.
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Post by mrfixit on Jul 31, 2010 5:32:33 GMT -5
All great ideas I would support. The few things I would want to do different that hasn't been mentioned is I would want to open bow season Oct 1 and keep it bow (includes crossbows} only until Nov. 15th then have a "any legal weapon" season from Nov. 15th until January 1st of the following year. Change the tag structure so you can kill one antlered and up to four does on one tag with any weapon and charge around 50 bucks for it. The second buck should be EAB and the tag should be considerably higher just for a buck bonus tag say around 100 dollars. Any does tags after four should be around 20 bucks or so. I'm not real sympathetic to out of state hunters and I don't see a problem charging high dollar for their tags. They don't live here and they don't pay any taxes in the state so I would keep tags pretty high for out of state hunters. In some sense each and every resident of the state pays for all the wildlife all year long with our tax dollars and I really don't see a need to just give away one of our resources.
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Post by thecommissioner on Jul 31, 2010 5:59:06 GMT -5
The problem with making it expensive for non-residents to hunt is the state reduces the pool of potential hunters. If deer herd population management is truly the goal here then there needs to be more hunters. It appears that short of EHD, nothing about rules, seasons, bag limits, and weapons has stopped the growth rate of the herd.
Discounting the current prices of licenses and the amount available land, any resident who wants to hunt is probably hunting. How do you add to the hunting population? Bring in non-residents.
As I've said before, the only way you are going to increase the number of hunters in the woods is to decrease the license fees or increase access to land or both.
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Post by oldhoyt on Jul 31, 2010 8:04:02 GMT -5
Leave existing seasons as they are.
Leave the OBR in effect.
Scrap the existing tag structure. Offer a bundle of 5 tags for $75 for residents, 5 tags for $200 for non-residents. These tags are either sex and can be used with any equipment during any season (again, OBR still in effect).
Add an early and/or late antlerless season if they want.
I have made these suggestions in my e-mails to IDNR.
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Post by oneshot on Jul 31, 2010 8:28:37 GMT -5
State wide archery season Sept. 15th. thru Jan 31st. Increase non resident deer license to 350.00
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Post by parson on Jul 31, 2010 8:59:46 GMT -5
Herd management is certainly not my area of expertise, but I know quite a few people who have limited hunting opportunities and financial resources. I've heard, on more than one occasion, that they had a chance to kill a doe, but not a license. I'd like to see the general license be for either sex.
I believe that this would result in more does being taken.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2010 9:07:25 GMT -5
BTW-- Telecheck will not help achieve the stated goals. It will help the DNR get their data faster and is much cheaper than man-generated data. There is no cost increase after the initial set up. Anyone that understands that paying biologists and employees to gather and sort data verses already having it inputed by the hunters knows this to be true. A quick call to any state that uses it would be all it takes to confirm that it is the way of the future and should be adopted......but it won't help to kill more does.
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dsg69
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Post by dsg69 on Jul 31, 2010 10:40:08 GMT -5
#1 Do away with OBR #2 Add one week to gun and start it the first Saturday in Nov. #3 Crossbow any season
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