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Post by hornharvester on Jul 25, 2010 12:56:22 GMT -5
Before the OBR I would kill a buck and doe with archery before the gun season came in, now unless its a monster buck (which i haven't seen since the OBR promised that) i sit and wait. I usually don't kill does either because I don't want to run them off before the rut comes in. Bucks follow does where ever they go and if the does aren't on my property, neither are the bucks.
Now I wait until gun season to kill my buck(if its big enough)and don't even think about killing doe until muzzle loader season.
Back pre OBR I was killing a buck and doe in archery and a buck and doe(county was 1 bonus tag) in gun season. But since the OBR I usually don't kill any deer in archery and maybe a buck (2 in 6 years) in gun and maybe a doe. Most all my bonus tag hunting is done in late muzzle loader mainly because of the OBR.
Not to the question, did the OBR help get us to this point where supposedly our deer herd is getting out of control? Isn't the same groups thats supporting the drastic gun hunting changes the same bunch that pushed the OBR through? If so why is the DNR listen to these people that got them into the predicament their in now?
The DNR needs to man up and cut their ties with this bunch before the DNR looses the ability to control or manage our deer herd and wildlife. h.h.
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Post by Woody Williams on Jul 25, 2010 13:23:42 GMT -5
I've said for years and years that if they want people to kill more deer they have to give them an incentive to do so. Years ago killing a deer, any deer, was tough to do. Now it is a pretty darn simple IF the area holds a good amount of deer. Killing a deer is not tough and the more that you kill the more work it becomes.
Like it or not, the opportunity to hunt a buck is a powerful incentive.
Years back the DNR was considering doing away with the UDZ buck. I sent the director some data showing that not only was the buck kill up in the UDZs that the doe kill was too. Take away that opportunity to take an UDZ buck and a lot of hunters would stop hunting the UDZs altogether.
The UDZ buck is still around,...even though they are wanting to make it an EAB. Is that "earn a buck" not an "incentive to" kill more deer?
In an appeasement to the animal rights people the DNR first state park hunts the antlers were cut off the bucks and NO pictures were allowed. They found out pretty quick that hunters didn’t like that and participation was quickly diminishing.
They backed off and now we can kill bucks, take picures and keep the antlers.
Go back to the two buck rule and make the general firearm tag either sex and see what happens.
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Post by Decatur on Jul 25, 2010 13:54:17 GMT -5
Woody!
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Post by jjas on Jul 25, 2010 13:54:55 GMT -5
The "state" thinks they need to reinvent the wheel with this mess and I completely disagree.
How about selling a buck/doe tag combo for a reasonable price that can be used by hunters during any season and allowing xbows for use by all during the archery seasons?
I can tell you right now that people aren't going to buy "special" tags for these gun hunts, a bow tag, a gun tag and a muzzleloader tag. It's too expensive, too much trouble and people are going to tire of eating $24.00 tag sandwiches.
At the very least make the gun tags either sex and add xbows for all and leave everything else alone.
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Post by deerman1 on Jul 25, 2010 14:37:29 GMT -5
I've said for years and years that if they want people to kill more deer they have to give them an incentive to do so. Years ago killing a deer, any deer, was tough to do. Now it is a pretty darn simple IF the area holds a good amount of deer. Killing a deer is not tough and the more that you kill the more work it becomes. Like it or not, the opportunity to hunt a buck is a powerful incentive. Years back the DNR was considering doing away with the UDZ buck. I sent the director some data showing that not only was the buck kill up in the UDZs that the doe kill was too. Take away that opportunity to take an UDZ buck and a lot of hunters would stop hunting the UDZs altogether. The UDZ buck is still around,...even though they are wanting to make it an EAB. Is that "earn a buck" not an "incentive to" kill more deer? In an appeasement to the animal rights people the DNR first state park hunts the antlers were cut off the bucks and NO pictures were allowed. They found out pretty quick that hunters didn’t like that and participation was quickly diminishing. They backed off and now we can kill bucks, take picures and keep the antlers. Go back to the two buck rule and make the general firearm tag either sex and see what happens. Ditto with Woody on this one . I will go one farther and say thet I am sure that if they went back to the seasonal structure of 10 or even 20 years ago and the same bag limits with a few small tweaks' Such as ad xbow for the whole archery season for anyone and then just give a bonus doe tag along with the purchase of your "Gun " buck tag and also your archery license that you can take your second buck with , they would see a big jump in hunter participation and deer take .Leave UDZs alone ,and just leave gun season open the traditionally down week .The whole thing is they listen to people that are not hunters or only hunt occasionally and the special interest groups too much instead of those who do the killing of the average Deer that the DNR want shot . Hard core Trophy hunters make horrible deer managers since every move they make and every moment they are afield it is all about them getting their trophy at any cost to the deer herd and hunters around them. It is a sad state of affairs now for average deer hunters. I know you read this Chad Stewart and so do your bosses . So get this we are here when this fails come get us we will be here and are ready to give you the kind of input that you need to keep the deer falling like you want and the "Vast majority of deer hunters in this state happy".. Deerman1
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Post by drs on Jul 25, 2010 14:46:54 GMT -5
What the state of Indiana should have done, back in the early 1980's when the Deer Herd was growing, is allow one Deer of either sex to be taken by Gun or Bow. By doing this the herd population could have been in check.
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Post by vectrix on Jul 25, 2010 17:01:32 GMT -5
Before the OBR I would kill a buck and doe with archery before the gun season came in, now unless its a monster buck (which i haven't seen since the OBR promised that) i sit and wait. I usually don't kill does either because I don't want to run them off before the rut comes in. Bucks follow does where ever they go and if the does aren't on my property, neither are the bucks. Now I wait until gun season to kill my buck(if its big enough)and don't even think about killing doe until muzzle loader season. Back pre OBR I was killing a buck and doe in archery and a buck and doe(county was 1 bonus tag) in gun season. But since the OBR I usually don't kill any deer in archery and maybe a buck (2 in 6 years) in gun and maybe a doe. Most all my bonus tag hunting is done in late muzzle loader mainly because of the OBR. Not to the question, did the OBR help get us to this point where supposedly our deer herd is getting out of control? Isn't the same groups thats supporting the drastic gun hunting changes the same bunch that pushed the OBR through? If so why is the DNR listen to these people that got them into the predicament their in now? The DNR needs to man up and cut their ties with this bunch before the DNR looses the ability to control or manage our deer herd and wildlife. h.h. I'm lost as usual with some of you guy's comments? Are you saying back before the OBR you used to see a buck during archery and firearms "BIG Enough" to kill but now you hold off since you can only take one? You said back before OBR you killed one with bow one with gun, not that there is a OBR you developed standards?? Why would you hold off now when you didn't have the constraint back then? If your in the mindset to harvest a trophy or nothing why would you be killing two bucks regardless back then but now it's you feel the need to hold off? Seriously, it makes no sense what is written here?
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Post by vectrix on Jul 25, 2010 17:08:25 GMT -5
I've said for years and years that if they want people to kill more deer they have to give them an incentive to do so. Years ago killing a deer, any deer, was tough to do. Now it is a pretty darn simple IF the area holds a good amount of deer. Killing a deer is not tough and the more that you kill the more work it becomes. Like it or not, the opportunity to hunt a buck is a powerful incentive. Years back the DNR was considering doing away with the UDZ buck. I sent the director some data showing that not only was the buck kill up in the UDZs that the doe kill was too. Take away that opportunity to take an UDZ buck and a lot of hunters would stop hunting the UDZs altogether. The UDZ buck is still around,...even though they are wanting to make it an EAB. Is that "earn a buck" not an "incentive to" kill more deer? In an appeasement to the animal rights people the DNR first state park hunts the antlers were cut off the bucks and NO pictures were allowed. They found out pretty quick that hunters didn’t like that and participation was quickly diminishing. They backed off and now we can kill bucks, take picures and keep the antlers. Go back to the two buck rule and make the general firearm tag either sex and see what happens. Ditto with Woody on this one . I will go one farther and say thet I am sure that if they went back to the seasonal structure of 10 or even 20 years ago and the same bag limits with a few small tweaks' Such as ad xbow for the whole archery season for anyone and then just give a bonus doe tag along with the purchase of your "Gun " buck tag and also your archery license that you can take your second buck with , they would see a big jump in hunter participation and deer take .Leave UDZs alone ,and just leave gun season open the traditionally down week .The whole thing is they listen to people that are not hunters or only hunt occasionally and the special interest groups too much instead of those who do the killing of the average Deer that the DNR want shot . Hard core Trophy hunters make horrible deer managers since every move they make and every moment they are afield it is all about them getting their trophy at any cost to the deer herd and hunters around them. It is a sad state of affairs now for average deer hunters. I know you read this Chad Stewart and so do your bosses . So get this we are here when this fails come get us we will be here and are ready to give you the kind of input that you need to keep the deer falling like you want and the "Vast majority of deer hunters in this state happy".. Deerman1 Why where you live you don't need any extra killing rememeber? You posted that. C'mon guy's theres two choices. You need more killing or less killing it can't be both according to your personal agenda.
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Post by deerman1 on Jul 25, 2010 19:06:28 GMT -5
Ditto with Woody on this one . I will go one farther and say thet I am sure that if they went back to the seasonal structure of 10 or even 20 years ago and the same bag limits with a few small tweaks' Such as ad xbow for the whole archery season for anyone and then just give a bonus doe tag along with the purchase of your "Gun " buck tag and also your archery license that you can take your second buck with , they would see a big jump in hunter participation and deer take .Leave UDZs alone ,and just leave gun season open the traditionally down week .The whole thing is they listen to people that are not hunters or only hunt occasionally and the special interest groups too much instead of those who do the killing of the average Deer that the DNR want shot . Hard core Trophy hunters make horrible deer managers since every move they make and every moment they are afield it is all about them getting their trophy at any cost to the deer herd and hunters around them. It is a sad state of affairs now for average deer hunters. I know you read this Chad Stewart and so do your bosses . So get this we are here when this fails come get us we will be here and are ready to give you the kind of input that you need to keep the deer falling like you want and the "Vast majority of deer hunters in this state happy".. Deerman1 Why where you live you don't need any extra killing rememeber? You posted that. C'mon guy's theres two choices. You need more killing or less killing it can't be both according to your personal agenda. It does not need to change it is fine here as is as the doe shooting goes . Buck well there is rome for improvement imho.Also ther is no pressure on hunters to hold back with a bow for the Mrgga buck because if the y dont they will not get a shot at him in gun . There it is most hunters had a minimum size for archery gear and that size was usually considerably higher and larger in gun and that in its self saved the life of more bucks in gun that the OBR ever will.
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Post by kevin1 on Jul 26, 2010 10:30:29 GMT -5
If all the DNR wanted was increased kills they'd allow more gun and ML days, or offer an EAB in the bonus counties, both unpopular with the special interests. Make no mistake about it, rule changes are driven by squeaky wheels over the short term, long term changes require a change in the herd itself, usually for the worse. Who else besides antler worshippers would want shorter firearm periods? Certainly not the vast majority of Hoosier hunters who gun hunt only, why would they cut their own throats? Who else but someone looking to get a better deal for themselves would grugingly "allow" gun and ML hunters into "their" season which they've so fiercely defended if not to hose someone else? And what about those dates? The worst possible days, and half of what the gun/ML hunter would give up. And who is now classified as a "Stakeholder"? Are we not all stakeholders anymore? My taxes pay for the upkeep of the resources, as does my license fees and P&R monies, so do yours. Perhaps the problem is that the majority of Hoosier hunters are content with the way that things are run and trust their DNR to take care of business. Why should special interests overrule those who will be the primary culling tool? Are they more important than us? I bleepin' think not!!
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Post by tenring on Jul 26, 2010 11:13:51 GMT -5
Excellent critique, some times the truth hurts the special interest groups.
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Post by catahecassa on Jul 26, 2010 11:31:52 GMT -5
I'm lost as usual with some of you guy's comments? Are you saying back before the OBR you used to see a buck during archery and firearms "BIG Enough" to kill but now you hold off since you can only take one? You said back before OBR you killed one with bow one with gun, not that there is a OBR you developed standards?? Why would you hold off now when you didn't have the constraint back then? If your in the mindset to harvest a trophy or nothing why would you be killing two bucks regardless back then but now it's you feel the need to hold off? Seriously, it makes no sense what is written here? No dog in this fight - but it makes PERFECT sense to me. Are not "bow standards" & "gun standards" different? I know that MINE certainly are and what would have been a NICE bow kill prior to OBR, I now have to pass on.
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Post by DEERTRACKS on Jul 26, 2010 13:55:56 GMT -5
hh prior to OBR I also enjoyed taking the pressure off with an early cull buck in archery & waiting-out the big-boys in gun season when they are more active & the shot opportunities are better.
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Post by racktracker on Jul 26, 2010 14:07:31 GMT -5
Standards will go out if the window with this "hurry up and kill them all" approach.Buttons and young bucks are going to die in several magtnitudes more than previously.Karma or unintended consequences of the big buck hunters?
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Post by mrfixit on Jul 26, 2010 17:32:33 GMT -5
You all don't have to take it. No one but you will be paying the money to the DNR for your tag next year. You are responsible for yourselves and if you buy a tag it's the same thing as supporting these changes. If everyone put their money where there fingers/mouth is and I bet you get their attention real quick. Stand up, give up your deer hunting for one year, maybe two tops and the state will be so overrun they will have to do something different.
I've made up my mind and I am steadfast in my decision. If they pass this into law I will no longer deer hunt in this state until things change. Screw them and the horn management horse they are riding. I will spend my money in VA, TN or GA.
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Post by catahecassa on Jul 26, 2010 17:41:35 GMT -5
MAY help...IF you got enough 'tag buyers' to buy in! The only problem with that even then is the LTL holders - myself & most of my friends included - and getting buy in on the not taking of does part (since the tag buying would be irrelevant). There are other options that would provide much more ROI of effort (or lack there of!) to get changes made in these proposals.
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Post by mrfixit on Jul 26, 2010 18:09:34 GMT -5
It's going to have to be all for one and one for all for it to work.
I have relatives in several other states where I can hunt. I can go to GA, buy the out of state tags for 100 bucks or so and kill like 6 deer on that one tag. That's cheaper than I can buy the tags for 6 deer here in this state and as a added bonus you get 3 months to do it with a rifle. The only added costs would be the fuel it takes to get there.
It's about 150 bucks to hunt in VA and you can take up to 3 bucks and 3 does in any license year and more if you have bonus tags. Tennessee is a couple hundred bucks and includes some pretty liberal bag limits.
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Post by jjas on Jul 26, 2010 18:23:07 GMT -5
Here's what I'm not getting.
If this is about killing more deer (and not appeasing certain groups and making money).
Why not....
Make the gun tags either sex instead of expecting these same hunters to purchase bonus doe tags before they can kill a doe?
Or....
Why not have a buck/doe tag combo that can be used for any season before expecting hunters to purchase additional tags?
Why not add xbows for all to boost archery participation in the early season and fill those either/sex tags?
Until I hear reasonable answers to these questions, I will not purchase a single bonus doe tag.
Not one.
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Post by huxbux on Jul 26, 2010 19:25:26 GMT -5
You all don't have to take it. No one but you will be paying the money to the DNR for your tag next year. You are responsible for yourselves and if you buy a tag it's the same thing as supporting these changes. If everyone put their money where there fingers/mouth is and I bet you get their attention real quick. Stand up, give up your deer hunting for one year, maybe two tops and the state will be so overrun they will have to do something different. I've made up my mind and I am steadfast in my decision. If they pass this into law I will no longer deer hunt in this state until things change. Screw them and the horn management horse they are riding. I will spend my money in VA, TN or GA. Exactly right. This is what it will take. Like someone else commented in another post though, there are not too many people with strong enough convictions these days to do what it takes. Most will meekly settle for whatever bone the DNR leaves them.
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Post by batchief909 on Jul 26, 2010 19:31:32 GMT -5
Was trying to decide on whether or not to go spend my $$ in Pennsylvania for bear. It's a "no-brainer" now....
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