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Post by freedomhunter on Jul 10, 2010 6:42:46 GMT -5
Why do they have designations of antlered and antlerless deer? I have never understood why they don't designate buck or doe. I suppose some may say that a hunter might mistake a button buck for a doe and then have to burn his buck tag. If so, I will say...learn the difference before the kill. As far as all the political stuff....I don't hardly know what to say about some of the reactions I have read here (on both sides). Years ago, I would be jumping stiff-legged with some of you. Now....I don't know. It has been said that you can't fight city hall. I would add that it is hard to fight greased politicians and special interest groups. Maybe Obama's election has just taken some steam out of my views on such things. I am hardly suprised by anything anymore. Please don't have any doubts that I am against lessened opportunities afield. Remember I am the official opponent of the OBR. Happy hunting, Hoosier. at least someone gets it, get out and hunt while we still have that freedom, you don't have to like the rules
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2010 7:20:40 GMT -5
I must have missed some of the other good for hunting proposed deer rule changes that will be discussed this meeting etc!!!! For example the youth hunts crossbows etc. I support those and thank the would be great rule changes. Focus on both positive and negative! Yes, the youth being abe to take either sex (which was not really in this one) and their bonus deer too is a good one. Actually it is great!Crossbows? Not so good. In my opinion, the IDNR Fish and Wildlife have went way over board with the shortening and moving of the firearm and muzzleloader seasons on what some other states have said “may” work, nothing positive, just “may” work . The IDNR Fish and Wildlife folks have pulled out all stops so I have to ask why they went only a partial way with the crossbow inclusion? Full inclusion was a huge request of Indiana hunters that gave NRC input last year. More requests were made for full crossbow inclusion than anything else. Bar none. The online survey showed considerable interest in full inclusion . 42% supported or strongly supported full inclusion of xbows, 26% were neutral, and 32% opposed or strongly opposed. The IDNR considered all kinds of out of state data for the changing the firearm and muzzleloader seasons, but when it came to allowing the Indiana deer hunters another archery choice for all of the archery season that ended. The IDNR is very good at gathering data so I am quite sure that they are aware of all the good crossbow data out there. We live right next door to Ohio and I’m pretty sure they have talked to Dr. Michael Tonkovich about this subject. The object here is to kill more deer, so does crossbows help in the deer harvest" There is no doubt about it. Last year, for the first time, Michigan allowed crossbow participation in the archery season. Participation in the archery season was up 7 percent. This is after many years of a serious decline. The archery harvest went up 10.5 percent statewide. It went up an amazing 19 percent in the southern Lower Peninsula where the herd is the biggest. Isn’t that what we are after? More dead deer in heavily populated areas? See – detnews.com/article/20100624/SPORTS07/6240390/1435/sports07/Michigan-likely-to-put-crossbow-on-equal-footing-with-bowhunting-for-deer#ixzz0ruWXsmN9Also last year the state of Pennsylvania started allowing their deer hunters the choice of using a crossbow in the archery season. In Pennsylvania – The 2009-10 hunting seasons marked the first time crossbows were legal in statewide archery deer seasons for all hunters. In those 19 WMUs outside of the three urban areas, the archery harvest increased 13 percent. The proportion of the archery harvest taken by crossbows in the 19 WMUs increased from 15 percent to 30 percent. Crossbows have been legal in urban WMUs of 2B, 5C, and 5D since 2004. www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/game-commission-releases-2009-10-deer-harvest-estimates-88846977.htmlWhy make all these other big time changes and totally exclude crossbows in deer reduction formula? Why? Maybe Mike Tonkovich, Ohio’s deer biologist said it best when he said: "We're expanding seasons, increasing bags to ridiculous levels, we're hunting backyards, we're offering incentives and spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on processing subsidies to try and encourage the harvest of additional deer," Tonkovich told an audience at the Archery Trades Association meetings in December. "We're removing every regulation hurdle, every logjam possible to try and encourage hunter participation. About the only thing left is to harvest the deer for the hunter. And yet at the very same regulation meeting, we are resisting giving hunters a choice (of crossbows) out of fear that we'll upset our traditional archers."A couple of the present crossbow proposals will do very little, if anything in recruiting hunters, retaining older hunters and helping in the herd management. “64 and older”? That is way too old of a limit. Data from states that keep age records show that bowhunters (if they do drop out) do so at a much earlier age. 50 to 55 would have been a lot more of a benefit in retaining older hunters. If they dropped out at 50 to 55 we are not going to get them back in at age 64. “Crossbow is the firearm season”? Very few, if any crossbowers will hunt during that time period. The recent IDNR online survey showed that only 5% of the bowhunters hunted with their bows during the firearm season. Why would we think that crossbowers would be any different? Consider also that these bowhunters already own a bow. An Indiana deer hunter is not going to hang up his 200 yard firearm and purchase a 40 yard crossbow to hunt the firearm seasons. It just won’t happen. There will be no gain in hunters or deer killed by sticking crossbows in the firearm season. Put them in the archery season where they belong and the state will reap the benefits of hunter recruitment, hunter retention, increased deer harvest and revenues to the IDNR and archery shops, restaurants, gasoline stations, motels, etc, etc, etc. Not to mention sales taxes and PR funds. BTW - The same people that objected tremendously to a full inclusion are now readying to approach the legislature to get a crossbow license with one thng in mind - keep the crossbows out of the early archery season where they rightfully belong. IF this is truly a five year "trial" then crossbows for full inclusion wont be considered for that length of time. The anti-crossbowers are stalling it out hoping to get something out of the legisalature to stop crossbows permanently. This was proably our best and final chance to give Indiana hunters another choice in archery hunting gear. According to the IDNR we have deer to kill, so why are we worried abotu what hunting tool that we kill it with? It just does not make sense to me that we are having a total disruption of our deer hunting seasons and they are leaving out another avenue to kill more deer. None of these rule changes look to me as "means to increase the total deer harvest". My guess is they are a miss guided attempt to satisfy the IDHA leadership and to further their goals. What they added to the crossbow hunter was a small bone, not a well cooked meal. It will not add to the doe harvest enough to even be noticed. Looks like these rule changes need a major redo. I'd be willing to bet that the Senator that wanted more deer killed will not support them and that they can easily be sent back to the drawing board. I'm pretty sure he's not real fond of the IDHA anyway?
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Post by firstwd on Jul 10, 2010 13:18:38 GMT -5
since I started waterfowl hunting, deer season has been a sprint to get out, fill the freezer, and back on the water. With moving the gun opening day later, that sprint will be shorter. Maybe State Park hunts will fill my freezer like last year and gun season will be dedicated tom my kids like last year. I believe hunters will hunt no matter what the rules are, they will just complain. I also fear that putting "more urgency on killing a deer" may increase the number of hurt or killed hunters. If hunting bucks during the rut is such a problem, then no one should be hunting them during that time. An added anterless only season in targeted counties is a good idea. Anything we can do to increase youth participation is a good idea. There is no reason for crossbows to not be allowed whenever archery equipment is legal. If crossbows are seen as unfair or too "modern" then compound bows should also not be allowed.
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Post by drs on Jul 10, 2010 13:25:18 GMT -5
I also fear that putting "more urgency on killing a deer" may increase the number of hurt or killed hunters. If hunting bucks during the rut is such a problem, then no one should be hunting them during that time. An added anterless only season in targeted counties is a good idea. Anything we can do to increase youth participation is a good idea. There is no reason for crossbows to not be allowed whenever archery equipment is legal. If crossbows are seen as unfair or too "modern" then compound bows should also not be allowed. GOOD POINTS!
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Post by Decatur on Jul 10, 2010 13:48:21 GMT -5
Indiana's firearms season will turn into the debacle that Ohio's is. Hunters running deer in large groups, pushing through any property where the deer take them.
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Post by deerman1 on Jul 10, 2010 14:02:08 GMT -5
Yes, the youth being abe to take either sex (which was not really in this one) and their bonus deer too is a good one. Actually it is great!Crossbows? Not so good. In my opinion, the IDNR Fish and Wildlife have went way over board with the shortening and moving of the firearm and muzzleloader seasons on what some other states have said “may” work, nothing positive, just “may” work . The IDNR Fish and Wildlife folks have pulled out all stops so I have to ask why they went only a partial way with the crossbow inclusion? Full inclusion was a huge request of Indiana hunters that gave NRC input last year. More requests were made for full crossbow inclusion than anything else. Bar none. The online survey showed considerable interest in full inclusion . 42% supported or strongly supported full inclusion of xbows, 26% were neutral, and 32% opposed or strongly opposed. The IDNR considered all kinds of out of state data for the changing the firearm and muzzleloader seasons, but when it came to allowing the Indiana deer hunters another archery choice for all of the archery season that ended. The IDNR is very good at gathering data so I am quite sure that they are aware of all the good crossbow data out there. We live right next door to Ohio and I’m pretty sure they have talked to Dr. Michael Tonkovich about this subject. The object here is to kill more deer, so does crossbows help in the deer harvest" There is no doubt about it. Last year, for the first time, Michigan allowed crossbow participation in the archery season. Participation in the archery season was up 7 percent. This is after many years of a serious decline. The archery harvest went up 10.5 percent statewide. It went up an amazing 19 percent in the southern Lower Peninsula where the herd is the biggest. Isn’t that what we are after? More dead deer in heavily populated areas? See – detnews.com/article/20100624/SPORTS07/6240390/1435/sports07/Michigan-likely-to-put-crossbow-on-equal-footing-with-bowhunting-for-deer#ixzz0ruWXsmN9Also last year the state of Pennsylvania started allowing their deer hunters the choice of using a crossbow in the archery season. In Pennsylvania – The 2009-10 hunting seasons marked the first time crossbows were legal in statewide archery deer seasons for all hunters. In those 19 WMUs outside of the three urban areas, the archery harvest increased 13 percent. The proportion of the archery harvest taken by crossbows in the 19 WMUs increased from 15 percent to 30 percent. Crossbows have been legal in urban WMUs of 2B, 5C, and 5D since 2004. www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/game-commission-releases-2009-10-deer-harvest-estimates-88846977.htmlWhy make all these other big time changes and totally exclude crossbows in deer reduction formula? Why? Maybe Mike Tonkovich, Ohio’s deer biologist said it best when he said: "We're expanding seasons, increasing bags to ridiculous levels, we're hunting backyards, we're offering incentives and spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on processing subsidies to try and encourage the harvest of additional deer," Tonkovich told an audience at the Archery Trades Association meetings in December. "We're removing every regulation hurdle, every logjam possible to try and encourage hunter participation. About the only thing left is to harvest the deer for the hunter. And yet at the very same regulation meeting, we are resisting giving hunters a choice (of crossbows) out of fear that we'll upset our traditional archers."A couple of the present crossbow proposals will do very little, if anything in recruiting hunters, retaining older hunters and helping in the herd management. “64 and older”? That is way too old of a limit. Data from states that keep age records show that bowhunters (if they do drop out) do so at a much earlier age. 50 to 55 would have been a lot more of a benefit in retaining older hunters. If they dropped out at 50 to 55 we are not going to get them back in at age 64. “Crossbow is the firearm season”? Very few, if any crossbowers will hunt during that time period. The recent IDNR online survey showed that only 5% of the bowhunters hunted with their bows during the firearm season. Why would we think that crossbowers would be any different? Consider also that these bowhunters already own a bow. An Indiana deer hunter is not going to hang up his 200 yard firearm and purchase a 40 yard crossbow to hunt the firearm seasons. It just won’t happen. There will be no gain in hunters or deer killed by sticking crossbows in the firearm season. Put them in the archery season where they belong and the state will reap the benefits of hunter recruitment, hunter retention, increased deer harvest and revenues to the IDNR and archery shops, restaurants, gasoline stations, motels, etc, etc, etc. Not to mention sales taxes and PR funds. BTW - The same people that objected tremendously to a full inclusion are now readying to approach the legislature to get a crossbow license with one thng in mind - keep the crossbows out of the early archery season where they rightfully belong. IF this is truly a five year "trial" then crossbows for full inclusion wont be considered for that length of time. The anti-crossbowers are stalling it out hoping to get something out of the legisalature to stop crossbows permanently. This was proably our best and final chance to give Indiana hunters another choice in archery hunting gear. According to the IDNR we have deer to kill, so why are we worried abotu what hunting tool that we kill it with? It just does not make sense to me that we are having a total disruption of our deer hunting seasons and they are leaving out another avenue to kill more deer. None of these rule changes look to me as "means to increase the total deer harvest". My guess is they are a miss guided attempt to satisfy the IDHA leadership and to further their goals. What they added to the crossbow hunter was a small bone, not a well cooked meal. It will not add to the doe harvest enough to even be noticed. Looks like these rule changes need a major redo. I'd be willing to bet that the Senator that wanted more deer killed will not support them and that they can easily be sent back to the drawing board. I'm pretty sure he's not real fond of the IDHA anyway? . I agree with both posts here.
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Post by js2397 on Jul 10, 2010 14:28:33 GMT -5
Indiana's firearms season will turn into the debacle that Ohio's is. Hunters running deer in large groups, pushing through any property where the deer take them. Same as Iowa's push, shoot, and pray. Doesn't matter if you get a clean shot if you see antlers let one fly.
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Post by deerman1 on Jul 10, 2010 14:42:32 GMT -5
We'll take it up again later
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Post by huxbux on Jul 10, 2010 20:30:23 GMT -5
I'm just glad the rabbit population is returning in my neck of the woods. I'm think I might be in the market soon for a good slow to medium speed beagle. The only down side to rabbit hunting is you have to feed the dog all year but hey I'm already feeding two worthless hounds so one or two more working dogs won't be that big a deal. I know I will have more money when I don't spend the two to three thousand I currently spend deer hunting, heck it can't cost that much to rabbit hunt or to pick up bird hunting. The other upside to it all is I won't have to freeze my arse off in that stinkin' treestand any longer. With rabbit or bird hunting you get to move around, walk, scream at the dogs, talk to your buddy across the field etc., and hope you and your dogs bother and ruin every single bow hunters hunt within a 3 mile circumference. Another upside is the financial windfall I will realize when I sell some pretty nice deer hunting gear. There is starting to be more upsides to this silly proposed rule change than I first realized... Exactly what I've been thinking. I'll just quit buying $100.00 worth of tags a year, clothing, stands, gas, etc, and hunt only my property. Our deer management plan will be bucks only. Since four of us live here and hunt, that would be four bucks. The guys down the road and across the creek who love the idea of shortened seasons, OBR, hunting out of the rut, etc, can go pound sand. ;D
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Post by stevein on Jul 11, 2010 0:11:33 GMT -5
I think Deer & Deer Hunting had a write up in the 80's about the differences in Northern and Southern seasons. State down south that had long seasons had fewer hunters shot per effort than north states with short seasons.
What I said. I agree. This is a move to get what the antler crowd has wanted.
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Post by freedomhunter on Jul 11, 2010 6:52:35 GMT -5
Indiana's firearms season will turn into the debacle that Ohio's is. Hunters running deer in large groups, pushing through any property where the deer take them. it already happens here for weeks, shooters that drive and push will continue to do just that, just not for as many days
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Post by Woody Williams on Jul 11, 2010 7:30:48 GMT -5
Indiana's firearms season will turn into the debacle that Ohio's is. Hunters running deer in large groups, pushing through any property where the deer take them. it already happens here for weeks, shooters that drive and push will continue to do just that, just not for as many days The further away from the rut the less the big boys will move. If they don't move some will try to move them. That is the way a couple states out west do.. all drives.. very litte stand sitting except on drives. The method of deer hunting in Indiana will be changing drastically.."unintended consequences" Not my cup of tea.
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Post by drs on Jul 11, 2010 8:03:08 GMT -5
The further away from the rut the less the big boys will move. If they don't move some will try to move them. That is the way a couple states out west do.. all drives.. very litte stand sitting except on drives. The method of deer hunting in Indiana will be changing drastically.."unintended consequences" Not my cup of tea.
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Post by Decatur on Jul 11, 2010 9:39:22 GMT -5
Indiana's firearms season will turn into the debacle that Ohio's is. Hunters running deer in large groups, pushing through any property where the deer take them. it already happens here for weeks, shooters that drive and push will continue to do just that, just not for as many days And there will be a lot more people doing it. With less days to hunt, they will be pressured more than now to not let that tag go unfilled! Driving deer, or even coyotes for that matter is not my cup of tea either. Especially because of all of the scumbag drivers that don't respect property lines, or even game laws.
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Post by dbd870 on Jul 11, 2010 11:01:22 GMT -5
The further away from the rut the less the big boys will move. If they don't move some will try to move them. That is the way a couple states out west do.. all drives.. very litte stand sitting except on drives. The method of deer hunting in Indiana will be changing drastically.."unintended consequences" Not my cup of tea. +2
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Post by bschwein on Jul 11, 2010 12:17:13 GMT -5
Indiana's firearms season will turn into the debacle that Ohio's is. Hunters running deer in large groups, pushing through any property where the deer take them. it already happens here for weeks, shooters that drive and push will continue to do just that, just not for as many days I agree. I don't see a shorter season having any difference
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Post by INDeerhunter on Jul 11, 2010 13:56:56 GMT -5
Guess I will throw my 2 cents in since I have waded thru this entire debate this far lol ! I am mainly a bowhunter thats just the way it is, I kill a deer every year sometimes 5 or 6, some end up being buttons, of course most are does and occasionally I kill a nice buck if it comes by my stand. I dont agree with such drastic changes to the rules but I can also see the good points of added time for the youth and see partially where the Dnr think the changes will harvest more " antlerless " deer, but I dont agree with shortening seasons or with the fellas on here that say they will just kill "buttons" or " let does walk " all year long. Thats not going to make things change or be any better IMO. I will still be out there no matter what the changes end up as, I will be out there with a bow during archery and any legal equipment from there on out thru the deer season and I will kill a doe, button buck or so called "book buck" or "trophy buck" becuz I am a "deer" hunter I take my wife and kids deer hunting and we enjoy the sport and the time together and we take a few deer every yr and bank on having them to help feed us thru the winter ! So I will hunt as long as they will allow me too with whatever equipment they say I can and kill whatever deer I can legally take until I die or they take it all away from me, and I think the rest of us should do the same isnt that what we really want is to enjoy hunting and spend time with family and friends in the field along with harvesting an animal to provide meals for us to enjoy ? Cuz thats the real reason I am out there I wish they would have left it all the way it was Except for adding the crossbow to the entire archery season (its no more accurate than my long bow or compound IMO) and add more time in the field for my youngs and other youths alike to learn and enjoy the sport of hunting BUT We all know that opinions are like a-holes we all have one and they all stink LMAO
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Post by freedomhunter on Jul 12, 2010 6:57:03 GMT -5
some of the biggest bucks I've seen have been sighted around the week after thanksgiving and the first week of ML, they run out of does around that time frame alot of years and start searching again (the younger bucks go underground)
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Post by kevin1 on Jul 12, 2010 8:31:45 GMT -5
IDNR has repeatedly shot down any proposed rule changes that adversely affects their ability to manage the herd, they'll do they same this time. Let your voice be heard or you'll have no say at all. The organized groups may get the first word, but they seldom have the last.
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Post by turkeyscout on Jul 12, 2010 11:15:02 GMT -5
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