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Post by deerman1 on Mar 28, 2010 21:36:43 GMT -5
Do you not see how opening up a gun season before the bow hunters will cause the deer to go underground prior to the rut and destroy any hope for bow hunters that worked all summer to capitalize on that big undisturbed buck that they have been watching Also It would seem most I want it early types have never seen or hunted the late season over the most predictable deer herd and most condensed of the year!!?? I guess it boils down to if a hunter only gun hunts or bow hunts or a combination of both as to how they want this fictitious season scheduled. Apparently not many bucks have gone “underground” because of a few thousand Youth Season gun hunters in late September and tens of thousands of squirrel season gun hunters from August 15 through all of the deer seasons until January 31. If an Antlerless “Season” for deer were limited to 2 or 3 days in late September or early October, limited to a specified quota per area or county designated (specifically targeted) by DNR, limited to one antlerless deer per hunter, hunters selected by drawing (like now for state park and military area hunts), the bucks would have plenty of time to calm down and return to their normal behavior well before the rut begins. By the way, I would call what is needed by DNR a Special Hunt, rather than a statewide season, because in my opinion it should be limited to DNR designated problem areas/counties. There is huge differance between the very rare and occasional intrusion of a squirrel hunter who is only after small game not pressureing the deer .On a side note buy the way there are not nearly as many of those squrrel you are eludeing or a few thousand youth hunters and what would amount to likely a regulat gun season with around 200,000 gun hunters flooding the woods because they can carry a rifle.Be perfectly honest you must not bow hunt do you ?? On a side note the season structer is just fine as is and doe / antlerless limits are if anything rediculously high and an early gun season is going to knock down a whole lot of button bucks by percentage over regulat gun season just as youth season does its just not worth it . Hunters are already trying to look for reasons and justifing shooting more does than they can use and most unters will take what they do now as numbers go and be done with it just as they do now .Seriously what is the average deer hunter that has success year to year 1-3 deer with 2 being the average and a whole bunch maybe 2/3s of the deer hunters taking nothing ??. You bet its just another lame attemopt to get already successful deer hunters to take more deer and it actually getting old . They keep skirting around the one thing that will keep hunters in the woods and hold thier intrest and perhaps by keeping them in the woods longer prompting them to take just one more antlerless deer. Return the second buck and watch the Doe /antlerless deer harvest jump agin it will happen but the DNR / special intrests will not admit it or allow it its about tag money and the assumed raise in harvest annually no matter how small period.And if the DNR does not come up with a fairly accuate method or way to estimate the deer herd numbers soon I see real problems in the very near future for hunters ,deer and the DNRs credibility. Sorry but this is how it looks from this hunters treestand and it will likely not change soon
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Post by DEERTRACKS on Mar 29, 2010 11:22:33 GMT -5
1st Saturday of September thru the 2nd Sunday of September. Any legal weapon.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2010 12:18:23 GMT -5
thats about what i was going to say deertracks. but make it a free youth hunt as well. 2 days for kids just doesnt seem long enough give them a week. plus the positive of having it that early in september, the deer will have plenty of time to get back to thei patterns after the pressure of firearms in the woods
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Post by Woody Williams on Mar 29, 2010 17:04:28 GMT -5
Guys and gals,
IF the IDNR has an antlerless deer hunt it will more than likely be one of these that huntmeister has put in the poll.
Even if you dont think an antlerless hunt is necessary please choose one and vote for one that you could live with if such an event came about.
Thanks for your help,
WW
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Post by mrfixit on Mar 29, 2010 17:14:31 GMT -5
There may be pockets of deer but there isn't near as many does as there used to be. at least in my neck of the woods. If the birth rate is 1 doe/1 buck then every other doe you kill is one less buck next year. It won't be long we won't have any deer to speak of once again except inside Bloomington city limits. ;D
If they have to do it then do it after late archery and muzzleloader. Or have a any weapons season around all the holidays when everyone is off work and then you have a chance to try out all the new guns your kids and grand kids get for Christmas ;D
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Post by deerman1 on Mar 29, 2010 17:42:09 GMT -5
It would appear that the late portion of the hunting season meaning the last few weeks around and after the holidays with 17 for that period of the closing part of the year.
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Post by old3arrows on Mar 29, 2010 19:32:32 GMT -5
The biggest problem with herd reduction is the ability to gain access to private ground where the less stringent rules exist to harvest does. You can not utilize bonus county tags on any of the state properties like Winimac, Salamonie, etc. A hunter starting out from scratch right now by knocking on doors will find it almost impossible to gain private access. If you don't own it, marry in to it, farm it, or have family or friends that allow you to hunt then it is not going to happen! If you do find a kindly neighbor that will allow you to hunt, chances are he let's everyone in the surrounding area to hunt. Then you bump heads, get stands stolen, have vehicles keyed or tires punctured and it is just not worth the hassle. A lot of ground is leased now, and I would bet that the majority of leases are for trophy buck hunting and the hunters do not harvest very many does. The bonus county bag limits are a joke. Madison County is a perfect example of this with a bonus limit of 8. You could make that number 100 and still not have a significant reduction in the doe herd because of limited access to private ground. When the quota was raised to an 8, I about had a fit, but it really didn't matter in the long run as the harvest numbers have remained steady for about the last 10 years and show a slight increase to around 600 deer taken for the season. I also think EHD took its toll on the deer population in the southern regions of the state a few years back and no further reduction of the herd is needed until the numbers rebound again. I saw fewer deer while hunting this past season in Jefferson County than I have in 20 years of hunting. I have no clue what the answer is and will trust the district biologists to give their input to the state to come up with a plan. I for one will try and harvest 2 to 4 deer a year, but I'm not going out and whack 10 or 20 just to reduce the herd and give the meat away. I will only take what I can use in a years worth of cooking and making summer sausage.
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Post by deerman1 on Mar 29, 2010 20:07:47 GMT -5
The biggest problem with herd reduction is the ability to gain access to private ground where the less stringent rules exist to harvest does. You can not utilize bonus county tags on any of the state properties like Winimac, Salamonie, etc. A hunter starting out from scratch right now by knocking on doors will find it almost impossible to gain private access. If you don't own it, marry in to it, farm it, or have family or friends that allow you to hunt then it is not going to happen! If you do find a kindly neighbor that will allow you to hunt, chances are he let's everyone in the surrounding area to hunt. Then you bump heads, get stands stolen, have vehicles keyed or tires punctured and it is just not worth the hassle. A lot of ground is leased now, and I would bet that the majority of leases are for trophy buck hunting and the hunters do not harvest very many does. The bonus county bag limits are a joke. Madison County is a perfect example of this with a bonus limit of 8. You could make that number 100 and still not have a significant reduction in the doe herd because of limited access to private ground. When the quota was raised to an 8, I about had a fit, but it really didn't matter in the long run as the harvest numbers have remained steady for about the last 10 years and show a slight increase to around 600 deer taken for the season. I also think EHD took its toll on the deer population in the southern regions of the state a few years back and no further reduction of the herd is needed until the numbers rebound again. I saw fewer deer while hunting this past season in Jefferson County than I have in 20 years of hunting. I have no clue what the answer is and will trust the district biologists to give their input to the state to come up with a plan. I for one will try and harvest 2 to 4 deer a year, but I'm not going out and whack 10 or 20 just to reduce the herd and give the meat away. I will only take what I can use in a years worth of cooking and making summer sausage. Excellent points and this is what should be conveyed to the state at the meetings not extra season alternatives . Because quite frankly there are not very many successful hunters that will take one more deer than they already do because quite frankly if a hunter is not getting all the deer they need to fill a freezer now one more season of any type is not going to help them enough or in the right way they have bigger issues than not enough time or seasons. Honestly this whole thing is not going to make any differance the state just wants one more reason to charge for one more season spacific tag for just one more season IMO and we as a whole are not going to drop the hammer on that many more deer to warrent an new antlerless season.Hunters will just take thier antleless deer either earlier or later but will still take the same number as they do now . Sorry for the rant .
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Post by huxbux on Mar 29, 2010 20:20:23 GMT -5
Why is an additional hunting season the only option being considered for harvesting more does? Seems the object could be achieved somehow during the three month span the deer seasons already occupy. I don't know that this is the only option but it is one that seems to be getting the most mileage. Have you some ideas we could discuss? Timex has some good ones here And I like this one from evolutionsthunder the best I believe a lot of occasional gun hunters (orange army) only buy a buck tag and save the $24 they would have to spend in order to legally shoot an antlerless deer. IF the DNR has as their objective, reducing the doe population, wouldn't it make sense to offer an either -sex gun tag?
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Post by HighCotton on Mar 29, 2010 21:30:35 GMT -5
My thoughts are pretty simple. I just hate to see the season end! Proposal #5.
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Post by cedarthicket on Mar 29, 2010 22:17:25 GMT -5
I would hate that a statewide antlerless season be extended into January any further than it is already. Lots of bucks would be mistaken for does because they had shed their antlers. The cold weather would make hunting so uncomfortable for many potential hunters that participation would be low (thus, to a large extent defeating the purpose of the season extension). It would also be low because many (perhaps most) of the experienced, skilled hunters would have already taken all the deer they want for the season. I suspect that most of the less experienced hunters (youth and adults) would much prefer an earlier antlerless season in better weather conditions so that they have a much better chance of taking a deer (helps recruit and retain hunters). In addition, once established, any statewide season extension would be very difficult to change in the future. My personal preference is that the DNR have some additional Special Hunts (similar to state park and military area hunts) for antlerless deer ONLY in areas/counties designated problem areas by DNR. By offering Special Hunts I believe DNR can more easily change targeted areas and quotas from year to year as needed to achieve management goals.
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Post by turkeyscout on Mar 30, 2010 6:35:54 GMT -5
The biggest problem with herd reduction is the ability to gain access to private ground where the less stringent rules exist to harvest does. You can not utilize bonus county tags on any of the state properties like Winimac, Salamonie, etc. A hunter starting out from scratch right now by knocking on doors will find it almost impossible to gain private access. If you don't own it, marry in to it, farm it, or have family or friends that allow you to hunt then it is not going to happen! If you do find a kindly neighbor that will allow you to hunt, chances are he let's everyone in the surrounding area to hunt. Then you bump heads, get stands stolen, have vehicles keyed or tires punctured and it is just not worth the hassle. A lot of ground is leased now, and I would bet that the majority of leases are for trophy buck hunting and the hunters do not harvest very many does. The bonus county bag limits are a joke. Madison County is a perfect example of this with a bonus limit of 8. You could make that number 100 and still not have a significant reduction in the doe herd because of limited access to private ground. When the quota was raised to an 8, I about had a fit, but it really didn't matter in the long run as the harvest numbers have remained steady for about the last 10 years and show a slight increase to around 600 deer taken for the season. I also think EHD took its toll on the deer population in the southern regions of the state a few years back and no further reduction of the herd is needed until the numbers rebound again. I saw fewer deer while hunting this past season in Jefferson County than I have in 20 years of hunting. I have no clue what the answer is and will trust the district biologists to give their input to the state to come up with a plan. I for one will try and harvest 2 to 4 deer a year, but I'm not going out and whack 10 or 20 just to reduce the herd and give the meat away. I will only take what I can use in a years worth of cooking and making summer sausage. i agree100%, .....turkey scout
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Post by tickman1961 on Mar 30, 2010 9:43:59 GMT -5
I just don't understand the need for it...
However, #4 would be my choice from above....
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Post by indianahick on Mar 31, 2010 14:53:34 GMT -5
Extending or adding seasons may allow the taking of more deer in areas of access but will do nothing for those areas with no access. Here in Terre Haute, you can go east of town on 40 and 42 and observe hundreds of non accessible acres. Now we also have hundreds of acres West of the river where there is going to be no access. Where maybe befor there was at least limited access. But because I don't like cold weather I voted for #1.
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Post by vectrix on Mar 31, 2010 19:31:06 GMT -5
I have one question, is Indiana managing our state for larger (trophy bucks) or trying their hardest to decimate the deer herd? Either way I wish DNR would just make up their mind. It make no sense to me to enforce a OBR and then consider adding an antlerless season on top of the countless bonus tages available. If you want the deer dead then why limit it to one buck? As expected with any poll like this, the bow hunters are trying to protect the early season they have enjoyed for years and the peace that comes with it and the gun guys are chomping at the bit to get their foot in the door at a shot at the early hunt...lol I would like to see maybe some serious proof and solid numbers that would warrant an extra season. As I said earlier and Woody stated above, if added the season should only involve certain areas. With the OBR in place (which I support) it makes no sense to me to allow countless button bucks to be busted with a shotgun, which I'm sure is quite a challenge. Might as well add a fawn clubbing season that starts in July.
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Post by old3arrows on Mar 31, 2010 20:09:24 GMT -5
Having watched over the last 20 years the bonus county tags go from a very stringent lottery system to basically unlimited, I don't see the deer harvest jumping exponentially. The harvest goes up every year, but guys are not shooting deer just to shoot them. The majority of guys will only harvest what they will use and then stop hunting deer and go on to small game, ducks, or geese. The IDNR could tell all deer hunters to harvest all of the does they want for $5.00 a doe, and the guys still would only take what they need. And yes, if the IDNR is really out there wanting a drastic reduction in the deer herd the OBR makes absolutely no sense! Our state is so diverse what works well in one area does not work well in another. I personally do not believe the herd needs that kind of reduction, and I base that on the number of deer I see while hunting and driving. I travel SR-37, 9, 421, 129, 3 and I-74 a lot during the month and you do not see the number of deer from the road/actually hit on the road that you did 10 years ago. So what has changed? Did the deer run off or are they just getting smarter and not venturing near any roads due to the danger? Are large predators like coyotes, bobcats, cougars, and wolves taking a toll on the fawns and other deer? I don't think so, I think the actual herd size is stabilizing or going down. Why adjust and jack with seasons every year? We can hunt for almost three months how much more do we need?
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Post by deerman1 on Mar 31, 2010 20:54:44 GMT -5
I have one question, is Indiana managing our state for larger (trophy bucks) or trying their hardest to decimate the deer herd? Either way I wish DNR would just make up their mind. It make no sense to me to enforce a OBR and then consider adding an antlerless season on top of the countless bonus tages available. If you want the deer dead then why limit it to one buck? As expected with any poll like this, the bow hunters are trying to protect the early season they have enjoyed for years and the peace that comes with it and the gun guys are chomping at the bit to get their foot in the door at a shot at the early hunt...lol I would like to see maybe some serious proof and solid numbers that would warrant an extra season. As I said earlier and Woody stated above, if added the season should only involve certain areas. With the OBR in place (which I support) it makes no sense to me to allow countless button bucks to be busted with a shotgun, which I'm sure is quite a challenge. Might as well add a fawn clubbing season that starts in July. I am not rubbing salt or posturing for a fight here from anyone . But you have stumbled on to the OBR smoke screen the DNR spawned years ago to just put more pressure on hunters to shoot more does to get the herd reduced to what ever level that the DNR wants . But they have no idea really how low thay are taking the herd in most areas since they do not have estimates anymore and will not or refuse to listen to the hunters who hunt the very counties that the want info on..That said this has been blinding alot of hunters that support the OBR because of the promise of a giant buck behind every stand . Honestly at some point the DNR will either listen and realize that they can pass out doe / deer tags like jelly beans but hunters "For the most part" will only shoot the few that they need to fill the freezer.Or they will eventually lose all credibility and likely thier jobs as the outcry from hunters that are hunting areas with little or no deer because they were killed off by hunters who drank the Cool-Aid will and big politicians will do what the need to do to get elected and who knows maybe our next Gov will be a deer hunter!!!! Who knows
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Post by deerman1 on Mar 31, 2010 20:55:59 GMT -5
Having watched over the last 20 years the bonus county tags go from a very stringent lottery system to basically unlimited, I don't see the deer harvest jumping exponentially. The harvest goes up every year, but guys are not shooting deer just to shoot them. The majority of guys will only harvest what they will use and then stop hunting deer and go on to small game, ducks, or geese. The IDNR could tell all deer hunters to harvest all of the does they want for $5.00 a doe, and the guys still would only take what they need. And yes, if the IDNR is really out there wanting a drastic reduction in the deer herd the OBR makes absolutely no sense! Our state is so diverse what works well in one area does not work well in another. I personally do not believe the herd needs that kind of reduction, and I base that on the number of deer I see while hunting and driving. I travel SR-37, 9, 421, 129, 3 and I-74 a lot during the month and you do not see the number of deer from the road/actually hit on the road that you did 10 years ago. So what has changed? Did the deer run off or are they just getting smarter and not venturing near any roads due to the danger? Are large predators like coyotes, bobcats, cougars, and wolves taking a toll on the fawns and other deer? I don't think so, I think the actual herd size is stabilizing or going down. Why adjust and jack with seasons every year? We can hunt for almost three months how much more do we need? IMO this is money here and I think that the op knows that the main culprate is over hunting more than any other reason given.
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Post by Russ Koon on Mar 31, 2010 21:33:15 GMT -5
I voted for #4 as first choice, would have also been OK with #5.
Hunted the late ML season with my brother a few times during Xmas break when he was off work. It was fun with the deer so much more visible, especially when we got snow cover. That advantage wouldn't be of much use to us bowhunters, but helped a lot when ML hunting.
I think Deerman's first post covered it pretty well.
Bow season is the least productive already in terms of harvest/time invested. The early proposals would all make it considerably tougher by stressing the herd ahead of archery, likely making them more nocturnal and edgier.
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Post by parkerbow on Mar 31, 2010 21:43:39 GMT -5
I have one question, is Indiana managing our state for larger (trophy bucks) or trying their hardest to decimate the deer herd? Either way I wish DNR would just make up their mind. It make no sense to me to enforce a OBR and then consider adding an antlerless season on top of the countless bonus tages available. If you want the deer dead then why limit it to one buck? As expected with any poll like this, the bow hunters are trying to protect the early season they have enjoyed for years and the peace that comes with it and the gun guys are chomping at the bit to get their foot in the door at a shot at the early hunt...lol I would like to see maybe some serious proof and solid numbers that would warrant an extra season. As I said earlier and Woody stated above, if added the season should only involve certain areas. With the OBR in place (which I support) it makes no sense to me to allow countless button bucks to be busted with a shotgun, which I'm sure is quite a challenge. Might as well add a fawn clubbing season that starts in July. I agree, Don't make much sense to me that we can shoot over 400 non-antlered deer a year, but are only aloud to harvest one buck.
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