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Post by jstalljon on Oct 25, 2005 9:31:57 GMT -5
Have been running a scenario through my head and wanted to get some opinions.
The times I have been afield I have watched MANY deer cross through a set-aside field on my property and cross a fence line into the neighbors property. A few have been decent bucks.
The good news....I can set a stand in two trees on my property that would be completely legal that is near several of the trails where the deer cross the fence.
The bad news...the neighboring property is owned by a BIG anti-hunter. It's a long story, but I know for a FACT he would not allow me to track a deer on his property if it was shot on mine, and jumped over to his.
As I stated....it is a large set aside field that is directly adjacent to crop land...so there is no other place to really "ambush" the deer. I've set up on this fence line before, but have never shot at a deer in fear of it crossing the fence.
How would all of you approach this? Would you shoot? Would you try to spine shoot and put the deer down immediately? Wait until gun season?
Seems like the majority of the deer I've shot in the past have actually turned 90-180 degrees after beeing shot and ran the other direction. Do you risk this???
Just wanted to get some feedback....thanks.
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Post by cambygsp on Oct 25, 2005 9:37:55 GMT -5
I would wait till gun season where the chances of the deer dropping in it's tracks is much better.
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Post by reynoldss on Oct 25, 2005 9:47:23 GMT -5
Can't a CO accompany you onto the property to make an honest effort to obey the law by making the best attempt possible to recover the game. Awful wordy, but you get the point. Is there a CO out there that could respond to this?
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Post by cambygsp on Oct 25, 2005 10:05:20 GMT -5
NO ONE can legally enter private property against the landowners wishes without a search warrant!
Now with that said, a ICO may be able to sway that landowner into allowing the search...but it would be up to the landowner.
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Post by trapperdave on Oct 25, 2005 10:10:39 GMT -5
ditto on the above, but it usually works. Most deer I have bow shot turned to go back the way they came, they know its safer than running thru an area they havent already "checked out"
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Post by DEERTRACKS on Oct 25, 2005 10:23:39 GMT -5
Wait till gun season, & if possible set-up a natural ground blind ambush position as far as possible from the property line.
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Post by duff on Oct 25, 2005 10:24:38 GMT -5
The last 3 deer I have shot with my bow only one did the 180 spin. Have you asked your neighbor? Sometimes they are a little more understanding about it if you ask first. Make sure to tell them you are in no way asking to hunt, just the right to track onto their property. I have some simular neighbors on the land I hunt but all want me to find the deer when needed. Luckily I have only had to track onto other persons property a few times.
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Post by hornharvester on Oct 25, 2005 10:33:48 GMT -5
a few years ago i shot a doe at the park reduction hunt and she went out of the park onto some private land. there was a lot of blood. i went to the road and soon someone from the park drove by and stopped. i told them the story and they called the CO's that were working the park that day. they came and told me to meet them at the edge where she crossed. they said legally no one can go onto private property and retrieve game unless the land owner gives their permission. the CO's went to the landowners house and he gave them permission to get my deer. so they escorted me and we retrieved my deer which went about 75yds from the park border. h.h.
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Post by gobblerstopper on Oct 25, 2005 10:38:20 GMT -5
As has been stated, the landowner can keep anyone off his property that he wishes. Even the CO's. I have been told before by two CO's that the landowner can also run into issues in this situation.
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Post by dec on Oct 25, 2005 10:45:29 GMT -5
I'd probably wait for gun season too. But, even with that, you may need to track onto the neighbor's. If that had to happen, I'd very politely approach the neighbor. If he denied the request, I'd call a C.O. immediately. I was speaking to a Lagrange Co. officer and he told me that generally, they can gain permission for you. He said if he can't do it the nice way, he would threaten them with a fine for wanten waste, since they knowingly were letting a dead animal die on their land and not allowing any recovery. He said that will generally convince anyone to let a deer be tracked. He said it is all up to the officer if he wants to take that stance.
I for the life of me can not understand why someone would not let an honest and polite person track a deer on thier land. As a land owner, why would you want a deer rotting away on your property? "I'd say, go get it and get it out of here ... oh yea, gut it somewhere else."
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Post by jstalljon on Oct 25, 2005 11:59:19 GMT -5
This guy is a real piece of work...
When I started hunting this property 6 years ago, I anticipated this situation, went over to introduce myself. Dressed nicely, clean shaven, a plate of my wife's cookies in my hand. Simply introduced myself, apologized if I was disturbing him. Mentioned my father-in-law owned the property next door and what a beautiful piece of property he had. Took the initial conversation away from hunting. Asked about his family and children. Told him I loved the outdoors and if he ever needed a hand mending fences, etc. to call me. Then I told him I was an avid bow hunter. Told him I practiced year round and harvested deer to feed my family. Told him I would never trespass on his ground and asked permission to only cross the line to track a deer shot on my property. His response was he didn't understand how I could do something so barbaric and that he'd rather see a deer be eaten by the creatures of the woods then by me.....and then rather not so nicely asked me to leave. Didn't take the cookies either.
So...there you have it. Maybe a C.O. could sway things, but I wouldn't bet on it.
I've been leaning toward holding out for gun season and trying to set up a "natural" ambush at that time.
Lot's of good ideas here...I appreciate all the input.
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Post by powderfinger on Oct 25, 2005 12:08:39 GMT -5
Screw him, I'd just go in after it anyway.
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Post by cambygsp on Oct 25, 2005 12:09:36 GMT -5
What kind of cookies were they....and do you have any left?
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Post by LawrenceCoBowhunter on Oct 25, 2005 12:37:59 GMT -5
I have found people like that are ignorant and don't give a hoot about wildlife when they say they do.When I get in a debate with an anti-hunter I always win because they have no logic.I have changed a few peoples minds towards hunting by explaining to them the land can only carry so many deer,and that there is more deer now than they ever has been(thanks to hunters and there tax dollars) etc,etc.
But anyways,your situation sounds almost like mine.I am going to try to use a decoy on this big buck and try to pull him away from the fence line,I'm also going to try to lay down a good scent trail and try to lure him into about 20 yds or so and hope for the best.Sounds good anyway.
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Post by jkd on Oct 25, 2005 12:42:11 GMT -5
JS,
For bows, I would try a deer decoy and blind out in the field to draw the deer away from the treeline. If the setaside is mowed in the fall, you could try a pit blind like the duck guys use. If you're 100+ yards from the treeline and get a good hit, hopefully the deer will be down before it gets to the trees. Otherwise, wait for guns...
I would ask Greendeem about the recovery legal issue... I know the law states you have to have permission before going on another's property, but I don't think there is a legal requirement to allow someone to recover down game in the current Indiana statutes or IDNR regs, i.e wanton waste is trumped by the landowner's right to control access to their private property.
If the guy is a PETA-type, I think having the ICO talk to them is a waste of time unless there is a specific legal argument to be made...
KD
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Post by duff on Oct 25, 2005 13:32:33 GMT -5
Yea those idiots can't be reasoned with. Sorry for your luck.
A land owner can't be cited for wanton waste when an animal crosses property lines. That would be like citing people who get into deer/car accidents with wanton waste, IMO.
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Post by dec on Oct 25, 2005 15:18:11 GMT -5
A land owner can't be cited for wanton waste when an animal crosses property lines. That would be like citing people who get into deer/car accidents with wanton waste, IMO. I was just passing on what I was told by a Lagrange officer. I'll look at home, I think I have his name written down somewhere, if you want to verify it with him. Maybe they can't cite for wanton waste, but how many ingorant land owners are going to question it when confronted face to face with an officer. Not saying it is right, but to me even a little decept is OK if it means getting the deer back and it not going to the coyotes. |
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Post by duff on Oct 25, 2005 15:38:09 GMT -5
I agree with you 100%. But I would not be the person to tell a land owner they were guilty of wanton waste if they don't allow you to get your deer. Let your CO do that.
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Post by cambygsp on Oct 25, 2005 19:27:18 GMT -5
I think an ICO would be NUTS to tell a landowner that.
The ICO's job is NOT worth your deer!
All landowners are NOT dumb....and chances are, if they are that staunch about NOT letting you recover your deer....they probably are PETA and KNOW their rights!
Now, a law officer may help in gaining access, but not with false threats. Maybe the landowner would trust the law officer more than the hunter!
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Post by dec on Oct 25, 2005 21:45:07 GMT -5
To clarify, the C.O. said that HE would threaten citing the land owner with wanten waste (not the hunter making the threat). And I totally dissagree. There are a lot of very uninformed land owners out there. A law enforcement officer is standing on the front porch of a land owner trying to help an honest and polite hunter find his deer, I'm thinking that 9 times out of 10, the land owner will cave if he is told that he might be breaking the law by letting an animal rot. I'm not saying that the land owner is breaking the law, I'm saying that the land owner does not know any different. Therefore, he ends up letting the hunter and CO go get the deer with no property damage, so where is the harm in that a small white lie was told? I see no harm at all. If the land owner calls the C.O.'s bluff, then he calls his bluff and the deer rots.
I was simply passing on what I was told in a Hunter's Ed class a couple years ago. Right, wrong or indifferent.
Now I'm kind of sorry I even brought it up. I found the officers name on my card, but I'm not even going to offer it up on here so the linch mob won't go after him.
I'm sure a C.O. will chime in on this topic at some point.
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