Concelaed Carry in National Parks - Help needed..

Woody Williams
Administrator

Posts: 57,320

Concelaed Carry in National Parks - Help needed.. Mar 6, 2007 19:20:45 GMT -5

Quote

Post by Woody Williams on Mar 6, 2007 19:20:45 GMT -5

VA-ALERT: ACTION ITEM: National Park carry is NOT OVER!!!

**URGENT** **URGENT** **URGENT**

VCDL has just learned from our sources on Capitol Hill that the
Department of the Interior (DOI) is **livid** over the National
Park Service's (NPS) asinine rejection letter sent to VCDL
concerning VCDL's Petition for Rule Making!

www.vcdl.org/pdf/NPS_Denial_of_VCDL_PRM.pdf

That petition would allow a law-abiding citizen to carry a
handgun for self-defense in a National Park if the state in which
the park is located allows such carry.

Apparently the National Park Service DID NOT CLEAR that rejection
letter with their parent - the Department of the Interior!

The Department of Interior had been telling VCDL and key
Congressional members that DOI would seriously consider VCDL's
petition.

The ensuing NPS rejection letter made DOI look like fools and
liars. DOI doesn't like that at all, and I don't blame them.

The word that I am hearing is that the Department of the Interior
is investigating how to OVERTURN that rejection letter and
soon!!!

We have an incredible opportunity to save TWO years of work and
pull off a victory for all gun owners! But we must make our
voices heard LOUD AND CLEAR.

I need all of you to do the following FOUR things NOW and
URGENTLY no matter where you live, as this this is a NATIONAL
effort:

********

1. CALL the DOI Legislative Affairs and leave a message for the
Secretary of the Interior, Dirk Kempthorne.

Say something like this:

"I encourage Secretary Kempthorne to implement the Virginia
Citizens Defense League's Petition for Rule Making that the
National Park Service has rejected out-of-hand. Law-abiding
citizens should be allowed to protect themselves and their
families while visiting a National Park."

PLEASE MAKE THAT CALL - WE WANT DOI'S TELEPHONE LINE LIT UP BIG
TIME!

Mr. Kempthorne's telephone number in Washington, DC is:
202-208-7351

********

2. Call your U.S. Senators and Congressman. Their names, phone
numbers and email addresses can be found by clicking here and
entering your zip and address:

capwiz.com/nra/officials/congress

Say something like this:

"Please have the Senator [Congressman] contact the Department of
the Interior's Secretary, Dirk Kempthorne, and ask him to
overturn the National Park Service's rejection of the Virginia
Citizens Defense League's Petition for Rule Making. Law-abiding
citizens should be allowed to carry a handgun to defend
themselves while visiting a National Park if the state in which
the park is located allows such carry!"

PLEASE MAKE THAT CALL - WE WANT CONGRESS' TELEPHONE LINES TO
LIGHT UP AS BRIGHTLY AS DOI'S!

********

3. After calling your Senators and Congressman, follow up with an
email.

Here is a sample email you can use:

Please ask the Department of the Interior's Secretary, Dirk
Kempthorne, to overturn the National Park Service's arbitrary
rejection of the Virginia Citizens Defense League's Petition for
Rule Making and to implement that petition!

VCDL's Petition for Rule Making, representing over ONE MILLION
gun owners, would allow law-abiding citizens to carry a handgun
for self-defense in a National Park as long as the state in which
that National Park is located allows such carry.

The National Park Service's rejection letter was not only
asinine, but condescending towards America's gun owners.

My family member and I are given but one life each. I ask that
you make sure that I can defend those lives while visiting a
National Park!

Please let me know what you are going to do.

********

4. After calling and leaving a message for DOI, follow up with an
email to Secretary Kempthorne:

Email address:

exsec@ios.doi.gov

Suggested email subject:

Please approve VCDL's Petition for Rule Making!

Suggested email text:

Dear Secretary Kempthorne,

I ask that you approve and implement the Virginia Citizens
Defense League's (VCDL) Petition for Rule Making that would allow
a law-abiding citizen to carry a handgun for self-defense in a
National Park as long the state in which the park is located
allows such carry.

The National Park Service sent a rejection letter to VCDL listing
four very poor reasons for the rejection. None of the reasons
listed legitimately justifies denying a person the right to
defend the only life they have been given.

The Petition, representing over ONE MILLION gun owners, was
basically rejected out-of-hand.

Please let me know what the Department of the Interior is going
to do regarding this matter.

Sincerely,
[YOUR NAME]
[YOUR ADDRESS]

********

OK, ladies and gentlemen - let's ROLL!

Please spread this alert far and wide! We need gun owners from
all over the country to make this happen!

***************************************************************************
VA-ALERT is a project of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
(VCDL).
VCDL is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization dedicated
to
defending the human rights of all Virginians. The membership considers
the
Right to Keep and Bear Arms to be an essential human right.

VCDL web page: www.vcdl.org

Last Edit: Mar 6, 2007 19:21:36 GMT -5 by Woody Williams

We are not Human beings going through a temporary Spiritual experience, but Spiritual beings going through a temporary Human experience.

pbr
Major Contributor

Posts: 745

Concelaed Carry in National Parks - Help needed.. Mar 6, 2007 20:37:09 GMT -5

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Post by pbr on Mar 6, 2007 20:37:09 GMT -5

NPS is BS.

Bullet 1, Parks are safe places.

“According to 2005 statistics covering all investigations conducted by both national park rangers as well as the park police, which largely focuses its jurisdiction on metropolitan areas that contain NPS units, such as Washington, D.C., New York City, and San Francisco, the per-capita crime rate for violent crimes, burglary, theft and arson is roughly 1 in 1.4 million.

"Serious crime against persons in national parks are extremely low under existing federal law," says Karen Taylor-Goodrich, the Park Service's associate director for visitor and resource protection. "There are no discernible facts or statistics that demonstrate the need for visitors to carry concealed weapons."

That said, here are some numbers from the Park Service:

Throughout 2005, there were eight homicide/manslaughter cases investigated by NPS rangers and five investigated by the U.S. Park Police. Of that total, NPS officials tell me that in roughly half of those cases the murders were actually committed off NPS jurisdiction with the victims later left within parks.

There also were 32 forcible rapes reported to NPS rangers, and five attempted forcible rapes.

Among the other stats:

* Four robberies involving a firearm were investigated by park rangers, while five were reported to U.S. Park Police.
* One robbery involving a knife was investigated by park rangers, two were investigated by U.S. Park Police.
* There were four robberies involving "other dangerous weapons" reported to park rangers, 11 investigated by U.S. Park Police.
* There were four kidnappings reported to park rangers, one to U.S. Park Police.
* There were eight aggravated assaults involving a firearm investigated by park rangers, seven reported to U.S. Park Police.
* Thirteen aggravated assaults involving knives were reported to park rangers, 11 to U.S. Park Police.
The largest number of crimes in any single category under the so-called "serious crimes" segment involved larceny-theft, with 3,158 incidents reported to park rangers during 2005 and 538 reported to U.S. Park Police.
In all, during 2005 there were 3,967 "serious crimes" investigated by park rangers. Given the roughly 280 million visitors to national parks during 2005, that number translates into a per-capita crime rate of 0.00001416785.”

I’d agree that parks are generally safe places, but then the point of concealed carry is to make yourself safer. I strongly suspect that these cited statistics aren’t “true” as such. For example, the NPS states 280 million visitors. This is obviously their interpretation of 280 million visitor days (or did the overwhelming majority of Americans actually visit a national park in 2005?), so that the crime rate for your town/city/village has to be multiplied by the number of residents and the 365 days in a year to approach a valid comparison. If you live in a place with lots and lots of visitors, then the equivalent crime rate goes down even more. It’d be an interesting mathematical experiment.

Bullet 2, Right to carry laws do not reduce crime.

This is gross lie, followed by a red herring. The purpose of concealed carry is to protect your own life when the ranger, following the court’s findings that s/he isn’t responsible for protecting individual people, isn’t there. The purpose is not to enable the armed citizen to assist fuzz that are there, and I suspect that fact is brought out in most all concealed carry training.

Bullet 3, Inoperable firearms in vehicles.

So, her point is??? This has nothing, nada, nichevo, to do with concealed carry, which is to carry an operable weapon on one’s person.

Bullet 4, the equivalent of Your concealed carry firearm is inadequate against wildlife.

There is a big difference between ineffective and inadequate. I’d agree that a lot, perhaps most, concealed carry firearms aren’t the best arms against big bears, but coastal brownies don’t occur most places. The “lesser” calibers are much more effective against wildlife that are scaled a bit smaller than the big bears. Given all that, the number of successful uses of handguns against even the big bears is pretty impressive. Of course, this ignores the fact that most concealed carry is for defense against 2, not 4, legged predators.

As usual, the anti carry folks are pretty creative in describing how useless firearms are. I just wonder whether Miss Karen would wish for a handgun were she one of the 32 rapees.

Old Ironsights Major Contributor I'm not Jesus. Stop punishing me for other people's sins! Posts: 3,604	Concelaed Carry in National Parks - Help needed.. Mar 12, 2007 16:45:07 GMT -5 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Old Ironsights on Mar 12, 2007 16:45:07 GMT -5 I'm pretty certain that a 180gr hard cast at 1400(ish) FPS from my SP101 will do just about anything I might need to shoot in the Lower 48...
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Old Ironsights
Major Contributor

I'm not Jesus. Stop punishing me for other people's sins!

Posts: 3,604

Concelaed Carry in National Parks - Help needed.. Mar 14, 2007 14:59:32 GMT -5

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Post by Old Ironsights on Mar 14, 2007 14:59:32 GMT -5

From a friend of mine with Federal LEO connections...

"I called and spoke to the External Affairs Officer. She said a current concern was brought up regarding Federal areas that are encompassed by multiple states. The concern (she wouldn't say who raised it) is that citizens could cross state lines where the CCW would not be legal. I asked if there was any provision to have a citizens permit recognized ANYWHERE on Federal land, and she said it was being researched. Lastly, I was told that the NPS and BLM law enforcement officers are managed by civillian, non-LE personnel within the respective Departments. That situation is being addressed by various entities including recommendations from the Inspector General. However, the non-LE managers were apparently making statements/comments on behalf on the LE personnel even though the LE personnel did not agree or concede. I was told there has been a high level of interest and correspondence and while it was not resolved, several proposals are being explored."

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Old Ironsights
Major Contributor

I'm not Jesus. Stop punishing me for other people's sins!

Posts: 3,604

Concelaed Carry in National Parks - Help needed.. Mar 15, 2007 9:24:21 GMT -5

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Post by Old Ironsights on Mar 15, 2007 9:24:21 GMT -5

Here is a post that outlines what we are up against:

Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************
I hope we can be heard... but I doubt it will happen. I'm retired from U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service, which is part of Department of the Interior, so I know how things work there. Though I was retired on a disability (due to a horse wreck) it was one of my happiest days. I no longer had to live under their rules. Some of those people are okay but most are parasites too screwed up to work anywhere else, and the ones in management postitions are the worst. No common sense at all.

Since I know how they work I no longer visit our National Parks. You may get away with keeping a firearm hidden and going there but if you ever get caught and prosecuted by the wrong people you'll rue the day. Not only can they ruin your life and bank account, they can really cause you a lot of grief for a long time in the future. I personally know of one man who shot a grizzly up by Glacier Park in his defense. It took him about ten years to get clear of that. It cost him hundreds of thousands of dollars to stay out of prison. He still lost his case and was fined thousands of dollars. He almost lost his ranch and is in debt for a long time. He has a criminal record for life and is scrutinized constantly by law enforcement. All this because he defended himself from one of their bears. It's not worth it. I, too, have a rule of not leaving home without being armed. In this day and age a man (or woman) is a d___ fool to venture anywhere without being armed, whether you are protecting against wildlife or thugs. I have to go to some places but I don't have to go to the Parks. I'd like to, as I'm an avid outdoorsman but it's not worth the grief to go there and get caught packing a gun. Until things change I'll just go wherever I can go armed and stay out of the Parks. And if you think you're upset over this situation you should be standing in my boots. I worked for the real preservation of our wildlife for many years and now I can't even go look at it and exercise my basic right to defend myself where they are.
***************

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Concelaed Carry in National Parks - Help needed..

Post by Woody Williams on Mar 6, 2007 19:20:45 GMT -5

Post by pbr on Mar 6, 2007 20:37:09 GMT -5

Post by Old Ironsights on Mar 12, 2007 16:45:07 GMT -5

Post by Old Ironsights on Mar 14, 2007 14:59:32 GMT -5

Post by Old Ironsights on Mar 15, 2007 9:24:21 GMT -5